Playing 'Bank' - Tips & What I've Already Learned... The Hard Way (1 Viewer)

[Taxi500]

I run a .25/.50 cash game every two weeks and do so at my home with payments Via Venmo. Players start with paying me $50, then additional funds are accepted for bigger stacks. Unlimited re-buys... you know the drill. At the end of the game stacks are counted & I pay them back what's in front of them.

Anyway, I was wondering if there are any suggestions for properly "banking" as I've had a game or two where someone buys in more, forgets to venmo me or it doesn't go through (these are all good friends I've never thought it was intentional) and I lose money as a result. It's important to note that drinking beer is my 2nd favorite thing about poker nights.... usually by the middle of the game my control over systems is running more on trust than anything.

What are some ways you ensure the host/bank doesn't get screwed? Here's what I am/plan on implementing:

1) Initial buy in from all players before game starts
2) No additional chips until venmo is received.
3) Host (me) only sits with $100 set in chips so I can more easily count my winnings/losses (Currently I just grab chips because I'm the bank and it doesn't really matter)
4) (Considering) Having someone be the 'bank assist' each game and on paper keep track of additional buy-ins

 

[warma]

1 & 2 definitely. I don’t hand out chips until I have cash in hand (put a separate envelope from my own cash) or have received electronic payment.

I use standard re-buy amounts (same as buy-in) that are already set and ready to go to speed up the process.

My biggest error was miscounting the chips in a rebuy stack. I gave the individual twice as many chips as he paid for. I ate the loss.

 

[Taxi500]

1 & 2 definitely. I don’t hand out chips until I have cash in hand (put a separate envelope from my own cash) or have received electronic payment.

I use standard re-buy amounts (same as buy-in) that are already set and ready to go to speed up the process.

My biggest error was miscounting the chips in a rebuy stack. I gave the individual twice as many chips as he paid for. I ate the loss.

Yes... I've learned from that one as well. Good call! I tell them all to recount it because my math + Busch Brain = Missing money

 

[Nymor]

I've had a game or two where someone buys in more, forgets to venmo me or it doesn't go through (these are all good friends I've never thought it was intentional) and I lose money as a result.

Why are you losing money? - don't these good friends pay when it's pointed out they didn't.

 

[ArielVer18]

pure cashless? You're trying to keep track of a billion tiny $50 transactions, so that's difficult even when sober.

Write down everyone's buy-in(s). Winners receives their profits. Losers pay up. Losers who can't pay before they walk out the door can be "convinced."

 

[upNdown]

In my opinion, cash works best. But there have been a couple of long threads on this exact topic in the past few weeks. Look around.

 

[dmoney]

It's increasingly the "old person" opinion, but I would be hard-pressed to do anything other than cash in, cash out.

As host, I usually break down barrels and count the player's chips out loud on the table in view of all players and get some sort of affirmation before I make the trade.

Same thing for cash outs: break down stacks and count out loud, and get another person to acknowledge. It's kinda tedious, but I think people appreciate it, and understand why it might take a few minutes to square everyone up at the end of the night.

 

[dmoney]

As host, I usually break down barrels and count the player's chips out loud on the table in view of all players and get some sort of affirmation before I make the trade.

For clarity, this is for rebuys and add-ons. Initial buy-ins are usually quick.

get another person to acknowledge

And this is as simple as me counting and asking "$154.50. That right?" it has been my experience that someone - most often the player waiting for their cash/chips - is watching intently and will nod/grunt/acknowledge, or speak up if they think it needs to be recounted.

 

[Taxi500]

Why are you losing money? - don't these good friends pay when it's pointed out they didn't.

Of course. BUT that assumes I know who did not pay or rebuy. Sometimes in the night its just "Can i get 50 more?" and a "Sure thing" and then it's forgotten. My fault usually.

pure cashless? You're trying to keep track of a billion tiny $50 transactions, so that's difficult even when sober.

Write down everyone's buy-in(s). Winners receives their profits. Losers pay up. Losers who can't pay before they walk out the door can be "convinced."

HAS to be pure cashless. I'm 'young' and my guys never carry cash. Also going cashless helps in some regards because I have a ledger on venmo for who paid and when.

 

[Taxi500]

I think my favorite here is

1) $100 increments from now on. I have wayyy to many $50 transactions.
2) Only hand out chips between hands, announce, and make sure the table acknowledges.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

2) is really all you need. Drunk or not, think of that as your receipt; dont hand anything out without checking. And yes, know your own stack bonehead.

No worries. Sounds like a cheap lesson. I use cash and Venmo and notesApp the running tally; if only venmo, my phone stays open and no chips play until I see and like the payment.

 

[Taxi500]

2) is really all you need. Drunk or not, think of that as your receipt; dont hand anything out without checking. And yes, know your own stack bonehead.

No worries. Sounds like a cheap lesson. I use cash and Venmo and notesApp the running tally; if only venmo, my phone stays open and no chips play until I see and like the payment.

I think I've gotten lazy and need to be more focused on not being insecure about looking like a "jerk"

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

I think I've gotten lazy and need to be more focused on not being insecure about looking like a "jerk"

100% understand that feeling. Remember you're in charge and security feels good!

 

[Silver_Fiend]

Cash in = cash out. Stop using the excuse of your or your players age. ATMs exist. Youre losing REAL money because of the very lack of cash you seem to despise.

 

[Rakrul]

I run both cash and similar to Venmo for all kind of amounts and speed is not your friend. Tell them to venmo you while a hand is in progress. Wait until the hand is done, check your phone to make sure you got the money. If they haven't, then you have two options. The one you pick, is the one you'll use for life. Don't mix them, it makes it easier for you.
1) Start the next hand while they're sending to funds to you. Wait until the hand is done and then proceed.
2) Make everyone wait. If this happens often, the group will tell the deadbeat to get his shit together as they want to play - not watch a drunk guy fumble on his phone.

Now count up the chips, announce the amount, and finally - the most important step BEFORE you hand over the chips, check the amount in notification from venmo and REMOVE the notification. Now you hand over the chips. This step is crucial so you don't give him another set of chips the next hand (or a couple of hands down the line) for free.

 

[puglia82]

I have the solution

Spoiler: solution

Cash it's the solution, straight and simple.

 

[Taxi500]

I run both cash and similar to Venmo for all kind of amounts and speed is not your friend. Tell them to venmo you while a hand is in progress. Wait until the hand is done, check your phone to make sure you got the money. If they haven't, then you have to two options. The one you pick, is the one you'll use for life. Don't mix them, it makes it easier for you.
1) Start the next hand while they're sending to funds to you. Wait until the hand is done and then proceed.
2) Make everyone wait. If this happens often, the group will tell the deadbeat to his shit together as they want to play - not watch a drunk guy fumble on his phone.

Now count up the chips, announce the amount, and finally - the most important step BEFORE you hand over the chips, check the amount in notification from venmo and REMOVE the notification. Now you hand over the chips. This step is crucial so you don't give him another set of chips the next hand (or a couple of hands down the line) for free.

Great call - Option 2 is for sure...

MY ISSUE WITH CASH: I live in an 'up and coming' neighborhood. I'm not familiar with all the families nearby and I know shady 'dealings' go on around the area. I do not like the idea of 8-9 guys showing up with $100-200 in cash each and it being seen through my many living room windows. Maybe crazy but it worries me.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Cash in = cash out. Stop using the excuse of your or your players age. ATMs exist. Youre losing REAL money because of the very lack of cash you seem to despise.

Who said despise? This is so melodramatic lol.

 

[Silver_Fiend]

Great call - Option 2 is for sure...

MY ISSUE WITH CASH: I live in an 'up and coming' neighborhood. I'm not familiar with all the families nearby and I know shady 'dealings' go on around the area. I do not like the idea of 8-9 guys showing up with $100-200 in cash each and it being seen through my many living room windows. Maybe crazy but it worries me.

Youve already got 8-9 guys showing up. If poeple can see in through your window (1, thats on you, 2 it looks exactly the same as cashless). IF someone THINKS your flush with cash because youve got a game going, it doesnt matter if you have it not. In fact, it could be worse for you to get hit and have nothing to give them

 

[Taxi500]

Youve already got 8-9 guys showing up. If poeple can see in through your window (1, thats on you, 2 it looks exactly the same as cashless). IF someone THINKS your flush with cash because youve got a game going, it doesnt matter if you have it not. In fact, it could be worse for you to get hit and have nothing to give them

Fair point.

 

[Taxi500]

I do thank everyone who has offered suggestions. They will be implemented!!

 

[Mr Winberg]

Write down everyone's buy-in(s). Winners receives their profits. Losers pay up. Losers who can't pay before they walk out the door can be "convinced."

This!

Why bother with having players venmo each time they buy in? Have a piece of paper and a row per player. Write down each buy-in/top-up, takes two seconds. When someone cashes out, settle the difference with venmo. A single transaction per player each night.

That's what I do, works great! Very low risk to forget to write up a top-up. Make sure to always write the new total though (i.e. not each amount), because you don't want to be doing more math than necessary at the end of the night.

Another good thing is that it doesn't matter how they pay, be it venmo, cash, bitcoin, beer, etc...

 

[Statesvegas]

Hello from just up the road!

Cash or Venmo, you may want to consider closing your many living room windows regardless or otherwise relocating your game from public view. This is still North Carolina where gambling is a "no-no". If those cars from your players clogging up the neighborhood piss off one of your neighbors and they want to make trouble for you, you could be making their job easy for them.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I have several players that PayPal/Venmo but I settle up with them at the end of the game so there aren’t a bunch of transactions. To keep track of it I have the player text/signal/WhatsApp me with the the amount and with each add-on/rebuy the new total so that it is in writing and clear to both of us.

They don’t get chips until I get the message.

 

[TexRex]

Taxi, after I read through this thread, you really need to use cash! Silver made some great points. You need to switch to cash if ...

• You are in a state where home poker for money is illegal, or
• You play in the living room with lots of windows people can see through, or anywhere else it is obvious from looking from the outside, or
• There is other shady stuff that goes on in the neighborhood (meaning the police know they need to watch that neighborhood), or
• You are using electronic transactions that both the IRS and your state taxing authorities can trace. If they can trace it, so can local law enforcement, or they can get it from the taxing authorities.

You didn't hit the trifecta here -- you seem to hit the quadfecta! Once you hit the first one, you need to go to great lengths to avoid every one of the others. I'm not addressing things like the possibility you have already or might in the future tick off the local gendarmes, a neighbor with connections, possibly your Property Owners' Association (if you have one), Neighborhood and/or Crime Watch, or anyone else of the mind to clean up the place from the likes of illegal activity.

State taxing authorities could assume all transactions are unreported income. So could the IRS. You could find yourself up against 2 well-funded government agencies whose job it is to collect taxes the government thinks belongs to them, and those people are just not really the people you want on the other side. Even when you win against them, it makes you a future target, it's expensive, and that assumes you have the money to hire the kind of people who can beat them.

Al Capone did not go to prison for murder, kidnapping, or bootlegging. He was absolutely guilty of ALL of those things. He went to prison for failure to report income, i.e., income tax evasion. Like someone said when they were trying to get him, "It's not sexy, but it's got teeth." It seems funny in a way, but plenty of criminals have gone to prison for tax evasion because the law requires they pay income tax on their ill-gotten gains. I'm guessing most don't.

I just have to ask, "Is it really worth the risk?" Cash is MUCH safer.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Taxi, after I read through this thread, you really need to use cash! Silver made some great points. You need to switch to cash if ...

• You are in a state where home poker for money is illegal, or
• You play in the living room with lots of windows people can see through, or anywhere else it is obvious from looking from the outside, or
• There is other shady stuff that goes on in the neighborhood (meaning the police know they need to watch that neighborhood), or
• You are using electronic transactions that both the IRS and your state taxing authorities can trace. If they can trace it, so can local law enforcement, or they can get it from the taxing authorities.

You didn't hit the trifecta here -- you seem to hit the quadfecta! Once you hit the first one, you need to go to great lengths to avoid every one of the others. I'm not addressing things like the possibility you have already or might in the future tick off the local gendarmes, a neighbor with connections, possibly your Property Owners' Association (if you have one), Neighborhood and/or Crime Watch, or anyone else of the mind to clean up the place from the likes of illegal activity.

State taxing authorities could assume all transactions are unreported income. So could the IRS. You could find yourself up against 2 well-funded government agencies whose job it is to collect taxes the government thinks belongs to them, and those people are just not really the people you want on the other side. Even when you win against them, it makes you a future target, it's expensive, and that assumes you have the money to hire the kind of people who can beat them.

Al Capone did not go to prison for murder, kidnapping, or bootlegging. He was absolutely guilty of ALL of those things. He went to prison for failure to report income, i.e., income tax evasion. Like someone said when they were trying to get him, "It's not sexy, but it's got teeth." It seems funny in a way, but plenty of criminals have gone to prison for tax evasion because the law requires they pay income tax on their ill-gotten gains. I'm guessing most don't.

I just have to ask, "Is it really worth the risk?" Cash is MUCH safer.

100%, when I heard .25/.50, I think Al Capone and the IRS investigating. For SURE.

 

[DRG]

Considering the $80 Billion dollars in new funding for the IRS and the new requirement for reporting transactions over $600......

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Yall are more worried about cops and the IRS breaking up your game, vs getting robbed for the cash/at the ATM, it just speaks to where you live and where priorities are at. Yes, if you're running an illegal poker games, there are problems associated either way, sure.

Not saying anyone is wrong, just saying that there are more considerations. Obviously a suburbs garage or basement 2/5 game has to worry about way different problems vs an apartment above the bodega playing microstakes.

 

[SendThatStack]

I broke my rule last night which is that I am the only one who gets chips and the bank ended up short at the end of the night. Super annoying.

 

[TexRex]

NotReal, I agree there are other considerations. However, those same things that make the game high-risk legally ALSO make it attractive for robbers. One thing that could make robbery attractive is robbing an illegal activity, so the risk of calling the cops is less and thus the risk of getting caught is less, or at least it's perceived to be less. Robbery risk is always possible, but low-stakes so not that much to gain, not necessarily easy to get into the place (private place where the door is locked), and being careful about who is invited are all things you can to do reduce the robbery risk.

Where you live counts. Potential risk to robber when a player or player shoots back also affects the robbery risk.

Legal risk is different. It involves more than the loss of the money in the game. It's expensive to fight. It takes a lot of time, is very stressful, and not something you can avoid if your freedom is at risk. Losing might have many unintended consequences.