Playing AQo Multi-way from the SB in 0.1/0.25 cash (1 Viewer)

[Jaqk80]

Good afternoon.

A couple days ago I played a hand that has been sticking in my mind wondering if I played it well or poorly. As usual, when this happens, I'm reaching out to people who play the game better than I do to get thoughts on the line I chose, if I played it correctly or how I might have played it differently. Getting into it:

This is a 0.1/0.25 cash table with 8 players. I have no reads on any players (I'm in the first orbit). All stacks are between 100 and 300 BBs. Involved players:

Villian1 - UTG 90.05 BBs
Villan2 - LJ 100.00 BBs
Hero - SB 96.00 BBs

UTG Opens to 4 BBs
UTG+1 folds
LJ Flats
HJ, CO, BT all fold
SB wakes up to AhQc

Decision 1:

Hero 3-bets to 11 BBs.

My main concern is the open by UTG. I'm trying to use the 3-bet to determine if I'm ahead or not. If they were to 4-bet, I'm probably folding. If they call, I'm discounting holdings like AA, KK, QQ, and AK; all of which would pose serious problems for us. I will admit that I'm a little nervous with this move since I'm OOP.

Both Villains call.

Flop (34 BBs):
As 6s 9c



Decision 2:

Hero C-Bets 22.1 BBs (65% pot)
UTG calls
LJ Jams
LJ has both of us covered; I have 62.9 BBs and UTG has 56.95 BBs

The 3-bet appears to have paid off (at least in my mind) and I like this flop so I think a C-bet makes sense to extract value from worse aces, straight draws, and maybe a handful of King high flush draws.

I was not expecting the jam which is where the main question in the post comes into play. What now?



Decision 3:


I end up calling the jam.

Where my mind went is as follows:
I don't think I'm up against AA or AK because LJ declined to raise pre-flop twice. So the hands that are ahead are 99, 66, A9s, and A6s (more on this in a sec).
HJ is likely including non-Ace hands in my range that I would play the same way. So hands I beat are worse Aces, King high flush draws, and the OESDs.
Pot is currently at 103 BBs and I'm putting in 63 BBs to call (ignoring what UTG might do).

UTG ends up calling as well.


Holdings:

UTG turns over AcJc
LJ turns over 8s7s

Runout is 6h 4c and we take down the pot.

I did run the pot odds on the flop. The part that surprised me (and is a learning for me) is that LJ is WAY ahead of everyone else from an odds standpoint:
Hero is 30.34% to win
UTG is 9.75% to win
LJ is 57.03% to win
Hero/UTG is 2.88% to chop



So what do you all think? Was it a good line or did I make mistakes.

And thanks to everyone who shares their thoughts/knowledge. I started playing the game regularly about 2 years ago and love the insight!

 

[arch3r]

As usual, when this happens, I'm reaching out to people who play the game better than I do

Then why the hell are you asking us donkeys for advice?

 

[JMC9389]

That's a tough one. I think the preflop decision is correct.

Spoiler

However, I don't think I call a jam with UTG calling behind. You're likely against a draw and a better ace here given the action. You got an ok but not great price to call given your holdings. Tough one but my action is highly dependent on knowledge of the other player's tendencies. If you're rolled deep and willing to pay for information, great! Call. But if you only have this buy in or only have one more in the chamber, there are better spots.

 

[chippitydoodah]

Did I miss the part where you tell us what your hole cars are?

Edit: Nevermind I found it

 

[JMC9389]

Did I miss the part where you tell us what your hole cars are?

In the title lol

 

[chippitydoodah]

This one was mapped out a bit different than most

 

[Legend5555]

Your 3 bet size is WAAAAAAY too small. Should be 16-20bb. No one is going to fold to a less than 3x raise when it's likely to go multiway. Though funny enough, at low spr they actually shouldn't be willing to call 3 bets too speculatively.

As played, the pot is so bloated now going 3 ways to the flop for a 3 bet. And that coupled with multiway responsibility and the somewhat condensed ranges should lead you to wanting to bet small on this flop. Like 20-30% pot. There really shouldn't be too many worse Ax other than AJs and MAYBE ATs, but given your small 3 bet size I guess it's reasonable there could be more. Also can only be a handful of flush draws like KQ, KJ, QJ, and the occasional connector. So there are a BUNCH of suited Broadways and pairs that have missed.

Ax and flush draws are calling any reasonable bet. And getting called by weaker pairs and backdoor stuff is a high priority. No one should have AK here really except you. The only hands that has you one bad shape here is 99 and occasionally 66 as A9 and A6 shouldn't be defending to a 3 bet very often. Plus, as I said, it's multiway and players naturally can't defend as wide multiway. So you don't have to bet big here.

You basically ended up in the best scenario given the action. You can't really fold since you bet so large. AJ should have folded after you called. There is 0% chance he is good given this action.

 

[JMC9389]

Your 3 bet size is WAAAAAAY too small. Should be 16-20bb. No one is going to fold to a less than 3x raise when it's likely to go multiway. Though funny enough, at low spr they actually shouldn't be willing to call 3 bets too speculatively.

As played, the pot is so bloated now going 3 ways to the flop for a 3 bet. And that coupled with multiway responsibility and the somewhat condensed ranges should lead you to wanting to bet small on this flop. Like 20-30% pot. There really shouldn't be too many worse Ax other than AJs and MAYBE ATs, but given your small 3 bet size I guess it's reasonable there could be more. Also can only be a handful of flush draws like KQ, KJ, QJ, and the occasional connector. So there are a BUNCH of suited Broadways and pairs that have missed.

Ax and flush draws are calling any reasonable bet. And getting called by weaker pairs and backdoor stuff is a high priority. No one should have AK here really except you. The only hands that has you one bad shape here is 99 and occasionally 66 as A9 and A6 shouldn't be defending to a 3 bet very often. Plus, as I said, it's multiway and players naturally can't defend as wide multiway. So you don't have to bet big here.

You basically ended up in the best scenario given the action. You can't really fold since you bet so large. AJ should have folded after you called. There is 0% chance he is good given this action.

Thoughts are similar, but why are you discounting AKo here? Do you think they four bet here to try to get it heads up almost all the time? Given hero has no reads on any players (I'm assuming this is online) in the hand, I'm not discounting anything.

 

[Legend5555]

Thoughts are similar, but why are you discounting AKo here? Do you think they four bet here to try to get it heads up almost all the time? Given hero has no reads on any players (I'm assuming this is online) in the hand, I'm not discounting anything.

I'm not dating it's impossible, but the flat carrier certainly doesn't have AK very often, and the UTG player you'd think would 4 bet to get it heads up with the player in between. So AK seems pretty unlikely. At least low enough % that it isn't worth spending mental energy on.

 

[Jaqk80]

Your 3 bet size is WAAAAAAY too small. Should be 16-20bb. No one is going to fold to a less than 3x raise when it's likely to go multiway. Though funny enough, at low spr they actually shouldn't be willing to call 3 bets too speculatively.

As played, the pot is so bloated now going 3 ways to the flop for a 3 bet. And that coupled with multiway responsibility and the somewhat condensed ranges should lead you to wanting to bet small on this flop. Like 20-30% pot. There really shouldn't be too many worse Ax other than AJs and MAYBE ATs, but given your small 3 bet size I guess it's reasonable there could be more. Also can only be a handful of flush draws like KQ, KJ, QJ, and the occasional connector. So there are a BUNCH of suited Broadways and pairs that have missed.

I hear your point on the C-bet size and I think I understand the point on the 3-bet sizing (bet sizing is something I know I need to improve on).

So it sounds like I had the right general idea, but need to improve on some of the details.

Then why the hell are you asking us donkeys for advice?

If you all are the donkeys, what does that make me!

Thanks for the comments and advice. I appreciate you all!

 

[shorticus]

For the record, after decision 2, I was certain that LJ was holding 8s7s.

I don’t know if that makes me good or bad

 

[Rakrul]

I don't have access to any solvers or GTO charts but I'm pretty sure AQo is a fold on the btn to EP raise. Here you have a cold-caller, are oop but have paid blinds so I'm guessing if fold is wrong here, it's not a big mistake. But I'm often wrong so hoping some GTO guys can pitch in.

 

[ngmcs8203]

AJ should have folded after you called. There is 0% chance he is good given this action.

When would have AJ been able to fold after Hero called? AJ flatted and called the 3bet and then jammed the river. I probably would have 3bet AJ suited preflop but it looks like that’s a coin flip between flat and raise against UTG.

 

[Legend5555]

When would have AJ been able to fold after Hero called? AJ flatted and called the 3bet and then jammed the river. I probably would have 3bet AJ suited preflop but it looks like that’s a coin flip between flat and raise against UTG.

No. AJ, who was UTG, check/called flop bet from Hero then over called the jam.

 

[ngmcs8203]

No. AJ, who was UTG, check/called flop bet from Hero then over called the jam.

Thank you.

 

[Legend5555]

I don't have access to any solvers or GTO charts but I'm pretty sure AQo is a fold on the btn to EP raise. Here you have a cold-caller, are oop but have paid blinds so I'm guessing if fold is wrong here, it's not a big mistake. But I'm often wrong so hoping some GTO guys can pitch in.

It might be a fold. But with the caller in between, hero is incentivized to squeeze a lot. Especially with hands that have blockers. It's also only 8 handed and not 9 or 10 handed. I imagine the EV difference between folding and 3 betting can't be that much. Plus, if you are playing against recreational players, I think it a slam dunk 3 bet no matter what their open raising standards are.

If they are tight and only 4 bet AA and KK, then great, we win a lot pre and fold when they 4 bet. We get to win on a lot of boards post when they just call pre with AK, AQ, AJ, 66-QQ.

If they are too loose, then we obviously profit by 3 betting AQ.

Only if they are good and can have 4 bet bluffs are we really punished for squeezing here.

 

[Rakrul]

It might be a fold. But with the caller in between, hero is incentivized to squeeze a lot. Especially with hands that have blockers. It's also only 8 handed and not 9 or 10 handed. I imagine the EV difference between folding and 3 betting can't be that much. Plus, if you are playing against recreational players, I think it a slam dunk 3 bet no matter what their open raising standards are.

If they are tight and only 4 bet AA and KK, then great, we win a lot pre and fold when they 4 bet. We get to win on a lot of boards post when they just call pre with AK, AQ, AJ, 66-QQ.

If they are too loose, then we obviously profit by 3 betting AQ.

Only if they are good and can have 4 bet bluffs are we really punished for squeezing here.

Fair enough. It just seems to me that being OOP we have a hard time realizing our equity here. Or rather, it's kind of win small lose big. Do we bet into EP on A-high board? If so how much? What about the different non A-boards?

I don't know the HE GTO (or HE in general really, it's very outdated), so they might be more aggressive on c-betting OOP than I think. Do we protect check-back ranges in a 3-way pot? I guess GTO is mostly solved for HU anyways?

 

[Legend5555]

Fair enough. It just seems to me that being OOP we have a hard time realizing our equity here. Or rather, it's kind of win small lose big. Do we bet into EP on A-high board? If so how much? What about the different non A-boards?

I don't know the HE GTO (or HE in general really, it's very outdated), so they might be more aggressive on c-betting OOP than I think. Do we protect check-back ranges in a 3-way pot? I guess GTO is mostly solved for HU anyways?

My point is we don't have to worry too much about GTO here. Recreational players don't play well in 3 bet pots in general.

This hand is somewhat complicated by the small 3 bet size which will cause the UTG player to have more stuff than usual. As the 3 bettor though, we should be firing all A high, K high, 2 Broadway, and low paired boards (that aren't super connected and wet). We can check basically all medium connected boards that would never hit our 3 betting range where our opponents will have all the sets and strong draws. We can check some A high boards as well for range protection.