Permanent cultural and behavioral changes from the pandemic

Leonard

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Are we ever going to shake hands again without considering it risky?
Will masks become increasingly common in public?
Will we all become germophobic?

What do you think?
 

timinater

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No, yes, yes.

I’m hopeful that people will finally stop coming in work when they are sick after this!

I’m curious how people’s politics might shift after this too, but that’s another thread/forum.
 

BarrieJ3

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I saw an interesting take on how this may change views on the telecommunicating aspect of both work and scholastic endeavors.

If this is able to prove to some companies and sectors that there is no real decline in leaving their employees at home or in the field they may rethink how they structure their approach.
 

hdgeno

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Are we ever going to shake hands again without considering it risky?
I still shake hands, but I also don't let fear control me so...
Will masks become increasingly common in public?
I hope not, that would make us weaker as a civilization as there would be less "herd immunity"
Will we all become germophobic?
No, again I refuse to let fear control my life. My line of work exposes me to a lot at times, it's probably good for me in the long run

What do you think?

Bolded in the quote is what I think, but I'm also completely crazy
 

Quicksilver-75

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Well I’ll say this. My perception of hooker juice officially makes me wretch...
One day someone will carelessly dispose of some hooker juice and it’ll end up in a river. Some fisherman will eat some cray fish from the riverbank and end up with some fd up chippingvirus.
 

BNM

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This post is 99% troll or fugazi. The only posible remainder might be tele-commuting as a permanent state. Beyond that, this is a cultural bump in the road.
 

BNM

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See also Spanish Flu, etc.
 
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MattyMatt

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I think touching our faces is a good indication of how difficult it is to change our behavior in meaningful ways. We keep doing it. All of us. Even the physician at the press conference yesterday couldn't help giving himself a facepalm after something the president said - the point being that this physician is short and so whenever he's up at the podium he and others adjust the mic... i.e. they touch the mic and then their face. And some people were never told as children to cover their mouths when they cough. So they just cough straight out into the air. Drives me fucking nuts. Always has.

So I think people will still shake hands and still touch their face afterwards, further spreading diseases. Fortunately some people will either become diligent in washing their hands or will become more diligent.

And on the issue of staying home when sick I'm all for shaming. Shut your mouth and don't cough, and then go home and stay home.

Then again, I'm also in favor of healthcare for all and paid sick leave, paid for with taxes... so...
 

Highli99

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Poker chips will be considered “forever unclean” and those who gather in groups to play card games will be treated as lepers were in biblical times.

best that the government hire me to confiscate these little disease disks before they kill us all. Comply citizens!
 

Nex

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Doubt that there will be substantially more germaphobes and people running around with masks in public after this wave is over.
But I do think an increased rate/acceptance of telecommuting will stay, along with advancements in technology to make it work more smoothly.

Also, I have hopes that there will be a mind shift among large parts of the population that might make the world a better place years down the road. Now that they're - at least partially - torn out of the work nuthouse and also cannot distract themselves with social gatherings, sitting around and having plenty of time to kill, there is a chance they'll use the time to think about their world view, their behavior, and the way the world is governed. Perhaps finding a new stance regarding "growth is infinite" capitalism and mindless consumerism. Also perhaps a shift of personal values back to family and your nation.

(I know, this might sound a bit stupid coming from a guy that is into gambling, but hey, nobody's perfect, and realizing issues is the first step towards solving them.)
 
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If masks don't become more common, and people don't stop giving mask-wearers funny looks, or coughing in their face intentionally, we're going to have a very hard time with any future pandemics. Look at korea and Japan. About a third of the population just wear masks as a daily part of life. They were able to react quickly, mask up, social distance, and flatten that curve in a hurry.
 

ReallyGoodUsername

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If masks don't become more common, and people don't stop giving mask-wearers funny looks, or coughing in their face intentionally, we're going to have a very hard time with any future pandemics. Look at korea and Japan. About a third of the population just wear masks as a daily part of life. They were able to react quickly, mask up, social distance, and flatten that curve in a hurry.
Isn’t a lot of that due to the fact that 1) the other viruses hit them harder or originated there and 2) they have a much higher smog problem in their cities then nearly all US cities with the exception of LA?
 
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Isn’t a lot of that due to the fact that 1) the other viruses hit them harder or originated there and 2) they have a much higher smog problem in their cities then nearly all US cities with the exception of LA?

Correct. I was in S.Korea for the "yellow dust" a few years ago. Industrial waste from China piggybacks on a dust storm. Google it, it's repulsive what's in the dust. Anyways, 100% of the population was in a mask. Meanwhile in the western world, people look at you like a leper if you wear a mask, and we wonder why it's spreading so quickly? We need to have masks on hand, wear one while sick, and not shame people for doing so.
 

ReallyGoodUsername

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Correct. I was in S.Korea for the "yellow dust" a few years ago. Industrial waste from China piggybacks on a dust storm. Google it, it's repulsive what's in the dust. Anyways, 100% of the population was in a mask. Meanwhile in the western world, people look at you like a leper if you wear a mask, and we wonder why it's spreading so quickly? We need to have masks on hand, wear one while sick, and not shame people for doing so.
Can you site any American health professionals saying everyone should buy and wear masks other than while you’re sick? I feel like that’s the opposite of what I’ve personally seen/heard. I also haven’t heard that the lack of mask wearing is the major cause of it spreading so quickly ie “people look at you like a leper if you wear a mask, and we wonder why it's spreading so quickly?” but again if you’ve seen differently in sources please share. I agree with you that Americans have mask stigma but it’s simply because we haven’t needed to in the past so its natural to see it as odd whether they should or not.

note I’m not saying everyone wearing masks wouldn’t decrease the spread but I thought it was their shelter in place policy that has run for weeks that is the biggest factor
 
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Can you site any American health professionals saying everyone should buy and wear masks other than while you’re sick? I feel like that’s the opposite of what I’ve personally seen/heard. I also haven’t heard that the lack of mask wearing is the major cause of it spreading so quickly ie “people look at you like a leper if you wear a mask, and we wonder why it's spreading so quickly?” but again if you’ve seen differently in sources please share. I agree with you that Americans have mask stigma but it’s simply because we haven’t needed to in the past so its natural to see it as odd whether they should or not.

note I’m not saying everyone wearing masks wouldn’t decrease the spread but I thought it was their shelter in place policy that has run for weeks that is the biggest factor

While I find an American source for you, I'd just like to say that even without professionals telling us that, don't you think it's odd that the countries with massive use of masks are the most successful at containing/beating it? Sure cultural differences and social distancing will make up some of it, but I find it hard to look at Japan, Korea, Taiwan, all wearing masks like their lives depend on it, having very low death rates.
 
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Can you site any American health professionals saying everyone should buy and wear masks other than while you’re sick? I feel like that’s the opposite of what I’ve personally seen/heard. I also haven’t heard that the lack of mask wearing is the major cause of it spreading so quickly ie “people look at you like a leper if you wear a mask, and we wonder why it's spreading so quickly?” but again if you’ve seen differently in sources please share. I agree with you that Americans have mask stigma but it’s simply because we haven’t needed to in the past so its natural to see it as odd whether they should or not.

note I’m not saying everyone wearing masks wouldn’t decrease the spread but I thought it was their shelter in place policy that has run for weeks that is the biggest factor

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5799964/coronavirus-face-mask-asia-us/?amp=true

Here is a time article quoting two different experts, one American, and one from Hong Kong.
The American: On the one hand is the view shared by Dr. William Schaffner, a professor in Vanderbilt University’s Division of Infectious Diseases, who says that medical masks commonly worn by members of the public do not fit snugly around the nose, cheeks and chin. “And if there’s a general recommendation that people wear face masks, we won’t have enough supply for healthcare workers,” he says, adding that his colleagues have already been reporting shortages. “The priority should be face masks to use in the healthcare environment, rather than in our community.”

Now I agree that heath workers need the masks and take priority, but if they didn't work, the health workers wouldn't need them so badly.

Now for the other fellow:
But, David Hui, a respiratory medicine expert at the Chinese University of Hong Kong who studied the 2002 to 2003 outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) extensively, says it’s “common sense” that wearing a mask would protect against infectious diseases like COVID-19.

“If you are standing in front of someone who is sick, the mask will give some protection,” Hui says. “The mask provides a barrier from respiratory droplets, which is predominantly how the virus spreads.”

He also says that the role of a face mask may be especially important in the epidemic due to the nature of the virus. Patients with COVID-19 often have mild or even no symptoms, and some researchers believe it can also be transmitted when patients are asymptomatic—meaning patients can be contagious and don’t know they’re sick.

Hui adds that the lack of solid evidence supporting the effectiveness of masks against the virus is no reason to dismiss its use, because there may never be definitive scientific proof. A properly controlled study would be impossible to conduct ethically, he explains. “You can’t randomize people to not wear a mask, and some to wear a mask, and then expose them all to the virus,” he says
.

I personally think that we were told not to wear masks so that health workers had enough, and not because they're not effective. Sure they're not perfect, and you need to use them properly, but that's not a reason not to use them.

I'm not saying that going out in public is fine and dandy if you have a mask, I'm just saying that on top of social distancing, I think masks are more effective than we've been told, and in the future I hope they will be more common (and might even prevent some of those flu deaths that get paraded around so much lately).
 

ReallyGoodUsername

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While I find an American source for you, I'd just like to say that even without professionals telling us that, don't you think it's odd that the countries with massive use of masks are the most successful at containing/beating it? Sure cultural differences and social distancing will make up some of it, but I find it hard to look at Japan, Korea, Taiwan, all wearing masks like their lives depend on it, having very low death rates.
I don’t think it’s odd at all but I also don’t think it’s just because they wore masks. Wearing masks is just one of a dozen ways I’m sure they’re more prepared for this than us because they’ve gone through this multiple times.
 
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I don’t think it’s odd at all but I also don’t think it’s just because they wore masks. Wearing masks is just one of a dozen ways I’m sure they’re more prepared for this than us because they’ve gone through this multiple times.

I don't think it's just because, but I'd find it hard to argue that they aren't a major contributing factor. After some more digging, we can also add to the list of countries with heavy mask use and little (relatively) corona deaths. Hong Kong, Singapore, and Thailand, on top of the already mentioned S.Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and (believe it or not) China.
 

MattyMatt

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If a masks covers the mouth and nose and you sneeze there's a fair chance it'll catch a fair amount of droplets with virus in them. On the other hand they won't properly filter out all that much because other than higher-end masks they don't properly cover the edges.

In addition there's probably something to the fact that in the medical field they replace masks pretty frequently. So you'd have to wonder for just how long the average mask is effective before needing to be cleaned or replaced, and to which degree it's effective to begin with.
 
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On the other hand they won't properly filter out all that much because other than higher-end masks they don't properly cover the edges.
The object isn't to filter out everything (although that would be nice), the object is to prevent most of the airborne water droplets from reaching our nose and mouth. While not perfect, masks will greatly reduce both the odds that virus get in, and the viral load in case they do. I have read a few theories that high initial viral loads can worsen the case, as the immune system has less time to start fighting it before it gets out of control.

The other major thing is that even if masks were only useful for sick people to prevent the spread, the fact that it can take up to 2 weeks to show symptoms means that literally anyone in any state of health could be infected, and spreading it like wildfire. If everyone wore masks, the asymptomatic spreaders would be blocked.
 

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Work from home will definitely become more prevalent. Businesses have been moving in this direction for some time now, with different adoption rates on a largely per-industry basis.

I work in the technology consulting field and basically 100% of my time is being spent on enabling companies to leverage remote working technologies like virtual desktops. And these customers are signing longer term contracts with substantial user minimums that lead me to believe that they’ll be using remote working much more prevalently than in the past. They’re also configuring these in a way that heavily lends itself towards perpetual use and not a short term or even 1 year long sort of thing.
 

Tarheel4Life

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Whether we become germaphobes is probably heavily dependent on whether infection conveys immunity for this virus and how fast and significantly it mutates.

I don’t think shaking hands will go away, though it probably should. I did it all day at work before this and it was awkward then, nevermind now. If Sales stopped doing it I think it stops in a business sense altogether.

I don’t see everyone wearing masks - if for no other reason that most communities don’t have smog problems and the masks are far too scarce.
 

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I think we won't change anything until some new shit comes. The work from home industry might get bigger. Hopefully we will respond better to the next one.
 

Nex

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My employer (very "traditional" values/reputation, public service) has bought new infrastructure hardware to enable about a quarter of our total workforce (of which not even all might need it to be able to work) to get access to intranet, work email and calendar from anywhere.

Even when the Corona panic is over, this hardware isn't going to go anywhere else. The increased capacity is there.

And during the Corona chaos, with us all being strongly advised to work from home if our job in any way allows it, we'll get enough insight that pretty much efficient work is actually possible from home. Which likely increases acceptance of home office past Corona too.
 
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I know what Fauci has said. I also suspect it's to maintain a steady supply to to frontline workers, who I agree need them first. However I don't agree that misleading the public is ok.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30134-X/fulltext

Here's an article in the Lancet that discusses responsible mask use.

https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/sci...vel-twice-far-official-safe-distance-and-stay

Here's an article about a case of covid spread on a bus in China, complete with a map of the bus. One guy infects 9 other people, a few of which weren't sitting near him.

"The researchers also found that none of those passengers in the two buses who wore face masks were infected".
 
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