PCF member dennis63 becomes a real casino dealer

Discussion in 'Key West Resort and Casino' started by dennis63, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. Sep 9, 2017 at 6:02 PM
    SixSpeedFury

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    I love reading this thread. Very insightful. I try to stay away from blackjack but the curiosity is always in the back of my mind. Does anyone know of a good strategy or strat thread on how to play +ev?
     
  2. Sep 9, 2017 at 6:16 PM
    Nex

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    Afaik, you cannot play blackjack +EV. Like all versus-the-bank casino games, it has a slight statistical edge built right into its rules.

    This used to be possible to turn into an (also) very slight statistical edge for the player when counting cards, one where you had to have an insanely large bankroll and play for high stakes in order to make a decent hourly rate from it. But in the modern casino setting with like 6 or more decks and only partial use of the dealer shoe contents, the effectiveness of card counting has been reduced to levels where for the casino it's either a very slight statistical edge again or a zero-sum game, or the statistical advantage for the player has become too small to be worth the time spent.

    If you don't see your gambling money as expenses paid towards a "good time", you want to stay far away from any casino game where you play against the bank and not other players. The house always win.

    The only reason why you can actually consistently win money at poker in casinos is because you are taking the money from other players, not the casino. The house always gets its share too via the rake, but the house doesn't (and doesn't have to) care who actually wins the pot. Essentially you are gambling here as well, albeit for good players with very high winning chances: You bet that you can win more money per time unit from other players than the amount you pay to the house via the rake in that time frame.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  3. Sep 10, 2017 at 7:23 AM
    Poker Zombie

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    Like Nex said, you can't get it all the way to +EV, but you can get pretty close with a basic strategy card and good game selection. Not all BJ tables play with the same rules, and the house edge can vary from as high as 2.5% to as little as 0.2% (good luck finding that game though). The biggest rule to look for when selecting tables is the payout on a blackjack. 3:2 is good, 6:5 is very bad. This one rule shifts the house edge from 0.6% to 1.9%

    Beyond that, the only +EV is counting cards. This allows you to increase your bet when the deck favors the player (lots of 10s and big cards) and decreasing your bet when the deck is bereft of 10s. The MIT strategy involved an entire team, so one player could count and then signal the "whale" when the deck favored the players. This was to blindside the casino thinking the casino wouldn't spot the increased bet, because it was not a player increasing their bet, it was just a random new player.

    There may still be active teams out there that the casino has not caught because I imaging it's difficult to pick up on a team working the table vs a lucky player just sitting down when the cards were right. Instead, of trying to identify a team, it's easier for them to adjust the rules that make counting useless - 8 deck shoes with 1/2 the cards never used, continuous card shufflers or 6:5 blackjack.

    If you want +EV, stick to poker or sports betting. Otherwise, blackjack is spending money, getting drinks or comps, and having fun when the deck goes in your favor.
     
  4. Sep 10, 2017 at 8:21 AM
    dennis63

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    This, absolutely. All of the tables we have are 3:2. It they ever change to 6:5, that would suck. If I went into a casino and realized the blackjack tables were 6:5, I wouldn't play there.

    In the early days of Vegas, payouts for getting a blackjack were even higher. If you got a black ace and black jack, the payout was 10 to 1.

    Where I work, they have a "no mid-shoe entry" policy in the High Limit Room. This is certainly a reason why, along with avoiding conflict among the players if someone sits down and buys in without asking. At the $5 and $10 tables, less than 20 percent of the players ask if they can come in mid-shoe or wait until I'm setting up a new shoe. As a rule, the people who ask to come in tend to be the most polite anyway, and it's a pleasure to deal to them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
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  5. Sep 10, 2017 at 11:54 PM
    SixSpeedFury

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    So just wing it basically, and hope for the best. blackjack = slots
     
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  6. Sep 13, 2017 at 12:35 PM
    dennis63

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    I would agree with all of this. The casino's practices -- six-deck shoes, cutting 20 or 25 percent of the working deck out, shuffling machines introducing a fresh shoe, rapid dealing and measures to speed up game pace -- are all designed to take the edge out of counting.

    Just the dealer's ability to act last has some advantage, I would think.

    And we can say with certainty that the house has a bankroll thousands -- and perhaps millions -- of times larger than the average player.

    What the casino really has is a big bank of chips, or cheques, whichever term you choose for the replacement currency.

    Very often when dealing, after you've dropped the cash in the drop box, you have the distinct feeling that the money is no longer involved, and you're essentially just moving cheques and cards around until the player runs out of them. They're all coming back in eventually.

    This is why casinos, like insurance companies, talk about "exposure" in table games. They know that the everyday player will almost certainly lose, and the skilled player will sometimes lose and, less often, win. They view the operation in terms of how many hands they'll need to deal to low-limit players to cover their loss on a large win.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  7. Sep 13, 2017 at 12:45 PM
    pedrofisk

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  8. Sep 13, 2017 at 1:19 PM
    SixSpeedFury

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    @dennis63, any stories of fiights breaking out while you were dealing at your table?
     
  9. Sep 13, 2017 at 2:31 PM
    dennis63

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    Not physical fights. Players will sometimes exchange words when one enters the game without asking. The offended player usually just strings some curses at the newcomer as they leave the table, and is gone before anyone realizes the epithets were directed at the new guy.

    One dealer who works early evening into late night says they have fights every night. I work later and into morning, and haven't seen anything serious.

    We've been told that if a fight breaks out between players at your table, just watch the money. Cover the float if you can, but don't get involved. Security is watching on camera, and the Floor will alert them with a button in the pit.

    We were taught that a dealer many never touch a player, and a player may never touch a dealer. I don't think I got to my third day before a player grabbed my hand as I removed his bet from the circle. He lost, but miscounted his total. I can understand this, so it was no big deal.

    I heard about a dealer who was born in China and spoke Mandarin. One night before I worked there, this lady was dealing to a man who also happened to speak Mandarin. Every time he lost, he said some words in that language. (It is actually illegal to speak anything but English during a live game in a casino, though I'm not sure how tight they are on this rule.)

    After this pattern repeated several times, the dealer had enough. She leapt across the table and began slapping and punching the player. On her way to being fired, she never actually revealed what he was saying. The supervisor who told me the story says he wished she could have stayed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  10. Sep 13, 2017 at 4:19 PM
    bergs

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    My dealer at the 4/8 O8 table at the Bike screamed at a woman at her table and threw her own chips at her. She was being incredibly verbally abusive to the dealer, and I guess this was one in a long pattern of abuse from this particular player. Also happening at my table - a gentleman from El Salvador was telling a gentleman from Mexico that we were going to build a wall around him and send him back to Mexico, a Chinese man told the guy from El Salvador that he was an idiot (in Spanish) and everyone at the table insisted that the woman who was berating the dealer was Arab while she adamantly (some would say furiously) maintained that she was not but wouldn't discuss where she was from. This is all at 9:00am while me and the my neighbor (a guy who said he was from East LA and used to be a gangster) sat and watched quietly. After the dealer got taken aside by the floor and the game broke the gangster made a comment that he'd basically shoot everyone at our table if this was back in the day. Then he left too, leaving me sitting at the O8 table by myself wondering what the fuck just happened.
     
  11. Sep 13, 2017 at 4:24 PM
    WedgeRock

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