PAHWM: .25/.50 Home Game (2 Viewers)

[boltonguy]

Here's a hand from last night's home game. We are playing .25/.50 eight handed and players have bought in from $60 - $120. We are playing the seven-deuce game with a $2 per player bounty paid. Half of the players (Hero included) play poker outside of this game, online and/or live. The other half know the rules but pretty much only play in this friendly game. That means that those players are pretty passive and a call pre-flop doesnt necessarily cap their range - half the players will call pre OOP with AA and take a multi-way flop.


UTG folds
Hero in +1 looks down at JJ and raises to $1.5
LJ folds
HJ calls - he only plays in this game, passive, could be un-capped here but probably only calling a 4! with AA/KK.
LJ calls - he only plays in this game, passive, could be uncapped here but probably only calling a 4! with AA/KK.
BN 3! to $4. This player plays live in casinos. This is a smaller size 3! given the action and he's on the button so this would be consistent with Ax with a decent kicker but not AK, trying to take it down pre at a low cost. He has raised larger pre with 88 - TT.
SB folds
BB calls. Only plays in this game, passive. Chases. Involved in lots of pig pots. Loves to gamble. Could be uncapped but also calls 4! wide to gamble.
Action is on Hero.

 

[dmoney]

4! $20, sizing up to 5x being OOP.

I'm sort of considering this "punishing the limpers." As stated, callers of the $1.50 are likely only continuing with AA/KK, button might be light and making a move if he's experienced, and we have position on SB if they continue. I'm probably folding to a 5! jam? And will check/call off on low flops. Tough spot, but I think that would be my assesment and plan.

Alternately, if I wanted to play a more conservative line, I'd just call and set mine. Move on if the flop doesn't make me a set or open-ender, etc.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Lot of passive money; if you hit a set its fantastic but otherwise its going to be tough to feel comfortable with that many limpers/callers, and they hate folding. Personally in my game Im calling this and seeing a flop, hoping to beat lots of Ax and random pairs.

 

[JMC9389]

Raise to $25

 

[MrCatPants]

In a home game with this many interested parties, this hand has turned into a set mining operation. Call.

 

[upNdown]

Normally I’d be raising or folding (raising.). But with these player notes, since you’re almost certainly not getting back raised, I think a call is fine.

 

[JMC9389]

In a home game with this many interested parties, this hand has turned into a set mining operation. Call.

I just don't have it in me to flat here. There's merit to this in position but that's not the case. Out if position I'm trying to navigate this hand heads up with the button and dictate the flow of the hand. If the limpers want to donk call a large four bet with suited connectors, non connected or suited face cards, or Ax hands, they can be my guest and those are players you're making money off of in the long run.

 

[boltonguy]

Hero thinks about folding, calling or raising. PokerSnowie wants a fold here saying that a raise is "A little bit too loose against multiple opponents, you should have folded."!! Big difference between GTO and real life IMHO. Obviously none of us are ever folding here.

I dont want to call. I think that a raise can definitely get LJ and HJ out of the pot. I do think that BN looks weak based on how he has chosen 3! sizing prior. If he calls or raises we'll know we are in trouble. Ideally I want to get heads up against the BB. So we are definitely raising - I can't go too big as everyone is uncapped so I choose $15. I feel like this size is a nice balance of FE for the LJ, HJ and BN yet small enough to keep the BB in with worse ...

This raise gets us HU with the BB (folds to him and he calls) and we bink a set on the flop. V checks. Hero?

 

[JMC9389]

Jackpot. Downbet to 1/3 pot.

 

[dmoney]

I choose $15

we bink a set on the flop

Absolute dream scenario. Kind of an awkward effective stack depth. Small bet allows V to continue with all combo/draws, KJ, KQ, and we probably get it in right away against V's KK. Jamming might fold out some of those combo/draws, but our read is that V likes to gamble, right?

Jam, hoping for a call.

 

[dmoney]

Downbet to 1/3 pot

I think you're a better player than me, so I am at least glad I gave this option full consideration. I wonder if theoretically they might be close?

Also, am I thinking too much about our exact holdings here advocating for a shove? with other 4! holdings like AA, AK, or QQ I think I prefer the downbet.

 

[boltonguy]

I am never shoving here as I dont want him folding worse hands. He can be pretty wide here and can find a call with all his draws and I want him chasing ...

 

[upNdown]

Absolute dream scenario. Kind of an awkward effective stack depth.

That raises an interesting point. The effective stack size is absolutely not deep enough to justify set mining here. But JJ is a good enough pair that you’re not strictly set mining.

 

[JMC9389]

Definitely not jamming the flop. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, the SPR is still about 1.5 to 1 for the big blind and over 2 for hero.

 

[Kentucky]

I’m planning on 3 streets of value here, as long as we don’t get more broadway cards coming out. Something like 10/20/30 should get all the money in by the river?

 

[boltonguy]

Hero wants to bet a size that will encourage V to continue with anything that remotely connects.
Of course KK is in range but so is AJ+, KJ+, KQ+, TT+
Not afraid at all of 66 based on the pre-flop call. he's not that crazy ...

Hero bets $10 or between 1/4 and 1/3 pot.
V calls and the turn is a brick and V checks. Hero?

 

[JMC9389]

Not a scare card by any means. Bet $20 to $25.

You can make a case for jamming on any Broadway card to try and fold out the open ended or flush draws that may come out on the turn with the SPR now less than 1, but I still feel very comfortable betting this turn for value.

 

[Taghkanic]

Villain has less than a pot sized bet left. So you’re likely getting it in one way or another either on this street or the river.

No sense letting straight or flush draws see one free, so I would jam.

With a nittier opponent, you might be losing some value with the jam, but betting smaller gives V too good a price.

If he’s as gambly as you say he’s calling with all top pair, all two pair, all draws, and maybe some pocket pairs, especially with one spade.

Plus if you let a free one roll off, certain cards could give the V some bluffing opportunities to blow you off the best hand on the river.

Put him all in.

 

[Taghkanic]

Oh, wait. I misread the board as having two spades. Now I see it’s rainbow. So he continues less.

Still I think since he has so little behind, you try to get it all on the turn. Sounds like he’ll call with all Kx, all two pair, and all straight draws including gutshots.

If your bet folds him out, you’ve still won a ~115BB pot.

 

[DrStrange]

I'm curious what Hero's plan for the hand would have been if he flopped an over pair? Hero's four bet makes the SPR so low that Hero has to feel pretty close to pot committed. SPR ~2 with an over pair seems pretty hard to find a fold.

Same though if hero if facing over cards. If the plan to find a way to fold if the flop has over cards? Obviously, an ace on the board is scarier than a queen. But still, there should be a plan in mind.

Hero is going for broke after flopping a set with an SPR of two. The question is how to get there.

Not losing sight that the Villain is a live casino player. We don't know if he also plays significant amounts of on-line poker. Down betting looks a lot different to a casino player than an on-line villain. What sort of range do we think villain thinks Hero holds?

 

[boltonguy]

@DrStrange "BB calls. Only plays in this game, passive. Chases. Involved in lots of pig pots. Loves to gamble. Could be uncapped but also calls 4! wide to gamble." No casino, no online play.

He isnt thinking about down betting or bet size as a proportion of the pot. He's thinking about the size of the bet in relation to his stack. He has no idea how much is in the pot except that its a lot of red chips. He isnt thinking about ranges, but is probably thinking that I might have AA, AK, AQ, AJ, etc. We are also playing the 7-2 game too. But I think he's mostly thinking about his cards and his stack.

 

[boltonguy]

Hero bets $20 and V calls. River is Kc. V checks.
Hero?

 

[JMC9389]

All in

 

[krafticus]

OP says you have JJ. I assume that’s a typo

 

[upNdown]

OP says you have JJ. I assume that’s a typo

right? I’m getting curious as to why this is a hand worth discussing. But I’m watching . . .

 

[boltonguy]

Ok so I jam, he snaps and shows KJo and says "I knew you had a set of Jacks!" while dragging the pot.
Of course I won half of it back in the balance of the session. I asked "what were your odds when you called the turn?"
He says "6%." I guess that's why we play ... He is a net loser in the game obviously but I guess he somehow deserved this one.

I dont think I would play any street differently - he told me as soon as he saw that flop he was calling a jam on any street.
Chalk it up to variance and move on.

 

[JMC9389]

Another cooler spot. Mentioned it earlier but you're making money off this player in the long term. You played it exactly as I would have.

 

[boltonguy]

I think it is pretty interesting playing with passive casual players. On ACR blitz, probably even full ring, 99% of players are 3betting AK, AA, KK, QQ, AQs, etc. When we play with these players who will limp these hands (!!) and go multi-way it adds an interesting dimension to one's "range analysis." I pretty much assume all of them are uncapped no matter what the preflop action is.