Tourney NLHE Tournaments are boring (1 Viewer)

[JustinInMN]

A lot of NLHE strategy is based on looking for opportunities with huge preflop advantages, those just don't exist in PLO. Like AAJT isn't going to be a crushing 3-1 favorite against reasonable rundowns like 9876. Those hands are within 60/40.

This actually brings up another criticism of NLHE tournaments. Very rarely are tournaments deep enough for 4-street play by the end. (larger pro-style events are better at this than say your daily 20-min level casino tournament) After a few levels, stack depths will force 2-street play or even just preflop play. This rarely happens in cash where rebuys are always allowed.

 

[Senzrock]

A lot of NLHE strategy is based on looking for opportunities with huge preflop advantages, those just don't exist in PLO. Like AAJT isn't going to be a crushing 3-1 favorite against reasonable rundowns like 9876. Those hands are within 60/40.

Yup, and that's why NL > PLO in tournaments. I have never played a circus tournament but I imagine it to be terrible lol (just the time it takes for each hand while the blinds are running seems like a nightmare!).

 

[BGinGA]

I have never played a circus tournament but I imagine it to be terrible lol (just the time it takes for each hand while the blinds are running seems like a nightmare!).

Not necessarily; some circus games are actually closer to NLHE than PLO in terms of hand selection advantages. And basing blind increases on orbits/# hands rather than fixed time can lessen the impact of games with longer average hand times. An experienced and competent dealer helps immensely, too.

 

[CraigT78]

I'm assuming long-term against competent tourney players.

I'm also assuming "strong hands" doesn't mean "any hand with a nine or higher." I've played against you, I know what your preflop range is...

I'm talking about the nit in my ten year home game who's never won a tournament, but is always finishing in the top 5. He folds to the money ~75% of the time.

 

[CraigT78]

Obv answer is obv. Play circus tournaments.

Definitely not boring.

I do enjoy a good circus tournament!

 

[Nine_high]

This actually brings up another criticism of NLHE tournaments. Very rarely are tournaments deep enough for 4-street play by the end. (larger pro-style events are better at this than say your daily 20-min level casino tournament) After a few levels, stack depths will force 2-street play or even just preflop play. This rarely happens in cash where rebuys are always allowed.

Apart from the cat herding pain in the ass that it is to run a tournament (compared to cash), this is actually my biggest beef with them.

Cash starts out interesting, then gets more interesting as the night progresses. Stacks get deeper.

Tournaments go the other direction. I hate that I can do well in a tournament, and still it basically comes down to a shove fest. Even with a commanding 6:1 chip lead, a couple bad flips and suddenly I'm behind. I also am not a fan of heads up play so there's that.

 

[200 Motels]

I would take PLO cash any day over an NLH tourney. That said, I really enjoy playing the shit show NLH bar tourneys around town.

 

[JustinInMN]

I'm talking about the nit in my ten year home game who's never won a tournament, but is always finishing in the top 5. He folds to the money ~75% of the time.

Tournaments reward that. Once you get toward the bubble or even the good side of the bubble, the ladder effect very much rewards folding in any spot where someone else can go broke. Even with AA.

That said, it's weird in ten years he hasn't backed into a first place somewhere a long the way.

 

[ValueTown]

I like tournaments. Home game style are more for casual playing with friends than profit/hr.

 

[CraigT78]

I like tournaments. Home game style are more for casual playing with friends than profit/hr.

I could argue that a home cash game is more fun than a home tournament!

No one busts early and leaves like they do in a tournament.

Way more shit talking in a cash game.

 

[pltrgyst]

*All* tournaments are boring -- the ability to concentrate over longer periods of time is a quality that has a great deal to do with determining the winner.

The same principle can be applied to auto racing: the 24 Hours is more boring than Indy is more boring than an F1 race is more boring than a drag race.

 

[CraigT78]

*All* tournaments are boring -- the ability to concentrate over longer periods of time is a quality that has a great deal to do with determining the winner.

The same principle can be applied to auto racing: the 24 Hours is more boring than Indy is more boring than an F1 race is more boring than a drag race.

I find all auto racing, with the exception of drag, to be exceptionally boring.

 

[JustinInMN]

I find all auto racing, with the exception of drag, to be exceptionally boring.

I guess I would criticize drag racing from a strategic standpoint that the only strategy is how you lower your foot.

That said, from an engineering marvel standpoint, all racing is fascinating. From a strategic standpoint, rather dull

 

[pltrgyst]

I find all auto racing, with the exception of drag, to be exceptionally boring.

Think participating, not watching in a drunken stupor.

 

[CraigT78]

Think participating, not watching in a drunken stupor.

I've tried watching while sober. It was MUCH worse!

But yes, I imagine participating would be quite exciting.

 

[HughDrackman]

Perhaps I’m in the monitory here, but I enjoy tournaments. There’s a two-tiered level of strategy that you don’t have in cash games: What’s the best play for my hand right now vs. what’s best for my chip stack in the bigger picture.

Perhaps the heart of this question speaks to what kind of poker player you are. Are you more of a Mike McD or a Joey Knish? When you play, are you thinking about Vegas and the fucking Mirage, or do you play for money (and not the thrill of fuckin’ victory)? I guess I’m more of a Mike McD.

I get the criticism. I’ve busted out of plenty of tournaments early, and it sucks waiting around for a cash game to start, or even worse, to go home early while everyone else is still playing. But I’ve found that the drama is greater, the tension is higher, the coolers are colder, and the payoff of a well played hand is sweeter in a tournament than in a typical cash game.

 

[andrebttx]

I think Doug Polk has a pretty solid idea for how to fix tournament poker!

 

[Frogzilla]

I think Doug Polk has a pretty solid idea for how to fix tournament poker!

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I’d play that kind of tournament.

Especially if it was like a dealers choice mixed game tourney

 

[BGinGA]

I’d play that kind of tournament.

Especially if it was like a dealers choice mixed game tourney

We've actually ran events pretty similar to this.

Actual-cash-value stacks, four circus games (rotation per orbit), unlimited re-buys first hour, cash out after third hour. Re-load and repeat.

Lots of fun.

 

[Klobberer]

I love circus games, but what about the math? I love the math! Nobody is figuring out the proper odds in Scarney! MATH!!!

 

[ekricket]

I love circus games, but what about the math? I love the math! Nobody is figuring out the proper odds in Scarney! MATH!!!

Hahahahahaha. It’s all finger movements and screwy facial expressions while muttering “the math says I have to call”.

It’s like a magic spell they have to cast with their hands and face and say the right words too.

 

[CraigT78]

I love circus games, but what about the math? I love the math! Nobody is figuring out the proper odds in Scarney! MATH!!!

Scarney is the easiest game! There isn't another game played with as much information available to a player.