My Sticker Mule labeling experience (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter danwmson
- Start date
Samuel
Straight
All in it was $227.42. I have to recount but I think they gave me 1 or 2 extra sheets (so yeah, just under 11¢ a sticker), And they also threw in a bottle of their hot sauce... lol
Samuel
Straight
Ok, a little more feedback on my experience (still ongoing).
I'm replacing stickers/labels on some cheapo slugged chips - specifically Brybelly Eclipse ( https://www.brybelly.com/500-Ct-Custom-Breakout-Eclipse-14G-Poker-Chip-Set-Aluminum - I got mine from OpenTip https://www.opentip.com/buy/eclipse-poker-chips.html ). Yes, the stickers cost more than the chips by a little bit. So why would I put lipstick on a pig? A: To (hopefully) delay buying a custom set of CPC chips. I actually like the way the Eclipse chips feel, stack, and play - they feel solid and "planted", not slippery at all. You can still shuffle them but you might have to adjust your technique a bit from say shuffling some ceramics like Nevada Jack skulls. Anyway, I have 930 of these chips and I went through the tedious process of removing flashing/slag on each individual chip by hand (knife and dremel - which is why I'll Never buy chips with flashing/slag ever again!).
I de-stickered all 930 over the past couple of nights and am now in the process of evening out the surface of each chip by hand/pocket knife - am about 2/3 done and my gut feeling right now is I may never relabel a set of chips ever again! haha.
To give you an idea of how my set of SM stickers came out:
This is one of the ones I submitted (original size was 1140x1140 pixels)
This is what I received (31.5mm diameter), not the greatest cell phone pic but good enough to give you an idea of before/after) - in this pic, the excess sticker material has already been removed so what you see is actually what is going on the chip.
I replaced one of each to begin with to compare old/new (after I approved the proof, I noticed that the blue 10 "cobra kai" was gray instead of red so I went back and changed all the "cobra kai" texts to match each color chip (but SM wasn't able to make the last minute change). I'm not sure if any of my buddies would even be able to tell there is a background tapa pattern on each chip without me pointing it out.
Denominations are definitely less visible than original but I think "good enough" - we'll see the next time we play...
The stickers themselves: soft vinyl, flexible but not too "soggy" when applying to the chip, matte, a tad on the "thin" side (I say that only because the original stickers were stiffer and slightly thicker - more like a thin plastic playing card type of material). The SM vinyl is soft enough to stretch if you pulled with some force and leave little divots if you press into it with a fingernail.
Upon cursory inspection of a few of the sticker sheets, each one looks the same. Each sticker I looked at appeared perfectly centered (quite a few of the original stickers were off center) and the sizing seems to be very close - 31.5mm and if larger, only by a hair. Of the 22 I've removed from the sheets, each one was cut out well - almost too good, the cutting goes into the backing material and on a few, I got backing material along with the sticker when I was peeling. I found that removing all the excess material first (leaving just the sticker and backing) made it easier to pick up off the sheet.
The slugs I'm working with - blechhh:
This pic doesn't look "too bad" - top row are the best slugs I've seen - all 5 came in an order of 5 sample sets but I don't remember the vendor off the top of my head. The middle and bottom row came from two separate orders from OpenTip. (Top 5 also had no flashing)
Flip them over and where's that puke smiley? Top row is still very impressive I think. Middle row are the 5 worst gray chips I came across while evening up the surfaces (and there are maybe half a dozen to a dozen more with similar damages/blemishes but not quite as bad as these 5). Except for the sample set of 11, I've only gone through the brown and gray chips so far and most are like the bottom 3...
So, why is this important? Because of the softness/thinness of the SM vinyl. The original stickers were stiff/thick and do a much better job of hiding irregularities like shown above. The SM vinyl shows problem areas much more clearly.
Here is a purple top view:
Here is the same purple at an angle. You can see a speck of dirt or something caught under the vinyl at the "C" in "cobra". You can also make out 4 even spaced circles (B in Cobra, next to B in Bad, D in Dojo, and I in Kai). :
And that's why I'm taking the time to even the surfaces of each chip (PITA!).
A few things I've learned:
PROOFREAD/double-check before finalizing!! (stupid stupid stupid!)
SM final product is significantly less detailed as original artwork
background is darker than I expected
lettering is manageable but the outlining (photoshop stroke) isn't as much - e.g. on the purple chip, the purple stroke around "Cobra Kai" is 4px, the white stroke around "500" is 4px, and the purple strokes around "Sweep The Pot" and "Bad Beat Dojo" are 3px. 4px white stroke on dark background is visible, 3px purple stroke on dark background not so much.
SM vinyl is thin and flexible so the smoother/more regular the surface, the better the result
I got my stickers just under a week after approving the proof and paying
SM customer service was pretty good - only downside was they communicate only via email, no phone calls
Gen 2 that didn't get made but would have ended up suffering some of the same pitfalls as what did get made:
I'm replacing stickers/labels on some cheapo slugged chips - specifically Brybelly Eclipse ( https://www.brybelly.com/500-Ct-Custom-Breakout-Eclipse-14G-Poker-Chip-Set-Aluminum - I got mine from OpenTip https://www.opentip.com/buy/eclipse-poker-chips.html ). Yes, the stickers cost more than the chips by a little bit. So why would I put lipstick on a pig? A: To (hopefully) delay buying a custom set of CPC chips. I actually like the way the Eclipse chips feel, stack, and play - they feel solid and "planted", not slippery at all. You can still shuffle them but you might have to adjust your technique a bit from say shuffling some ceramics like Nevada Jack skulls. Anyway, I have 930 of these chips and I went through the tedious process of removing flashing/slag on each individual chip by hand (knife and dremel - which is why I'll Never buy chips with flashing/slag ever again!).
I de-stickered all 930 over the past couple of nights and am now in the process of evening out the surface of each chip by hand/pocket knife - am about 2/3 done and my gut feeling right now is I may never relabel a set of chips ever again! haha.
To give you an idea of how my set of SM stickers came out:
This is one of the ones I submitted (original size was 1140x1140 pixels)
This is what I received (31.5mm diameter), not the greatest cell phone pic but good enough to give you an idea of before/after) - in this pic, the excess sticker material has already been removed so what you see is actually what is going on the chip.
I replaced one of each to begin with to compare old/new (after I approved the proof, I noticed that the blue 10 "cobra kai" was gray instead of red so I went back and changed all the "cobra kai" texts to match each color chip (but SM wasn't able to make the last minute change). I'm not sure if any of my buddies would even be able to tell there is a background tapa pattern on each chip without me pointing it out.
Denominations are definitely less visible than original but I think "good enough" - we'll see the next time we play...
The stickers themselves: soft vinyl, flexible but not too "soggy" when applying to the chip, matte, a tad on the "thin" side (I say that only because the original stickers were stiffer and slightly thicker - more like a thin plastic playing card type of material). The SM vinyl is soft enough to stretch if you pulled with some force and leave little divots if you press into it with a fingernail.
Upon cursory inspection of a few of the sticker sheets, each one looks the same. Each sticker I looked at appeared perfectly centered (quite a few of the original stickers were off center) and the sizing seems to be very close - 31.5mm and if larger, only by a hair. Of the 22 I've removed from the sheets, each one was cut out well - almost too good, the cutting goes into the backing material and on a few, I got backing material along with the sticker when I was peeling. I found that removing all the excess material first (leaving just the sticker and backing) made it easier to pick up off the sheet.
The slugs I'm working with - blechhh:
This pic doesn't look "too bad" - top row are the best slugs I've seen - all 5 came in an order of 5 sample sets but I don't remember the vendor off the top of my head. The middle and bottom row came from two separate orders from OpenTip. (Top 5 also had no flashing)
Flip them over and where's that puke smiley? Top row is still very impressive I think. Middle row are the 5 worst gray chips I came across while evening up the surfaces (and there are maybe half a dozen to a dozen more with similar damages/blemishes but not quite as bad as these 5). Except for the sample set of 11, I've only gone through the brown and gray chips so far and most are like the bottom 3...
So, why is this important? Because of the softness/thinness of the SM vinyl. The original stickers were stiff/thick and do a much better job of hiding irregularities like shown above. The SM vinyl shows problem areas much more clearly.
Here is a purple top view:
Here is the same purple at an angle. You can see a speck of dirt or something caught under the vinyl at the "C" in "cobra". You can also make out 4 even spaced circles (B in Cobra, next to B in Bad, D in Dojo, and I in Kai). :
And that's why I'm taking the time to even the surfaces of each chip (PITA!).
A few things I've learned:
PROOFREAD/double-check before finalizing!! (stupid stupid stupid!)
SM final product is significantly less detailed as original artwork
background is darker than I expected
lettering is manageable but the outlining (photoshop stroke) isn't as much - e.g. on the purple chip, the purple stroke around "Cobra Kai" is 4px, the white stroke around "500" is 4px, and the purple strokes around "Sweep The Pot" and "Bad Beat Dojo" are 3px. 4px white stroke on dark background is visible, 3px purple stroke on dark background not so much.
SM vinyl is thin and flexible so the smoother/more regular the surface, the better the result
I got my stickers just under a week after approving the proof and paying
SM customer service was pretty good - only downside was they communicate only via email, no phone calls
Gen 2 that didn't get made but would have ended up suffering some of the same pitfalls as what did get made:
Attachments
Thanks again for detailed explanation of your process and experience!
Since "murder" is used to describe "de-stickering" inlays/labels, I think the term for that when dealing with sluggos should be "euthanize" (hope this isn't too crass).
Samuel
Straight
If I can help someone learn the easy way something that I learned the hard way, I'm all for it!
If "euthanized" is too much, then maybe "neutered"... haha
If "euthanized" is too much, then maybe "neutered"... haha
I guess I've been relatively lucky with my own relabeling journey. Will have to document it, but removing the labels from Spirit Mold chips were relatively easy except for the blue chips, that was a big hassle involving very careful amounts of Goo Gone and lots of elbow grease. The label making process involved a lot of trial and error, wasted materials, and cursing! I can definitely see why people pay good money to have their labels made!
Samuel
Straight
I've had a lot of plastic dust/debris all over the place but wet messes (googone, etc) are another level of mess! Your homemade labels came out great!
Thanks! The Cobra Kai ones turned out great too! Did you design it?
philhut
Flush
I was scrolling down asking this exact question....what would labels look like on Nexgen Lucky Bee's Thank you! I have had a set for years that was never labelled due to cost/effort.....may just have found a supplier where costs are worth considering for less valuable chips
"Execute" as in order 66 on stock sluggos (really who the hell posts here and wants stock labels on non-Bud Jones/non-Matsui sluggos anyway)
Hey there are well respected members who have done this: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...els-by-gear-labels-on-discounts-monacos.5891/
Right, who here would buy Claysmiths or other inexpensive sluggos and not at least dream about relabeling?
CrazyEddie
Full House
@Samuel Thanks for the excellent write-up! This will be very helpful and informative to anyone else going through the restickering adventure.
Your final product looks amazing! I love the design. I hope you and your friends will enjoy playing with them.
Just to make sure I understand: on this pictured chip, the plastic has cracked and fallen away, and what's revealed underneath is the metal slug, with rust stains apparently?
You mentioned that you got your chips in two different batches - a sample set from one vendor, and then a full set from a different vendor. It's interesting (and very disheartening) to see that you actually ended up with two rather different chips! Besides the obvious difference in quality, you can tell that the manufacturing process is different - the samples have a single dimple in the center, while the full set has three holes surrounding it (although the manufacturing process is sloppy enough that the holes are inconsistent - sometimes all three show up, sometimes only two are visible).
One take-away for anyone else shopping for low-end chips: the more popular base chip designs are made by lots of different manufacturers and will vary both in quality and in small details; samples you get from one source might not match the product you get from another source. Manufacturers have no qualms about copying each others' designs, so chips that look the same (either the same base chip design or the same sticker design) might not actually be the same. Alas. I haven't been bitten by this myself, but I guess I've been lucky.
Your final product looks amazing! I love the design. I hope you and your friends will enjoy playing with them.
Just to make sure I understand: on this pictured chip, the plastic has cracked and fallen away, and what's revealed underneath is the metal slug, with rust stains apparently?
You mentioned that you got your chips in two different batches - a sample set from one vendor, and then a full set from a different vendor. It's interesting (and very disheartening) to see that you actually ended up with two rather different chips! Besides the obvious difference in quality, you can tell that the manufacturing process is different - the samples have a single dimple in the center, while the full set has three holes surrounding it (although the manufacturing process is sloppy enough that the holes are inconsistent - sometimes all three show up, sometimes only two are visible).
One take-away for anyone else shopping for low-end chips: the more popular base chip designs are made by lots of different manufacturers and will vary both in quality and in small details; samples you get from one source might not match the product you get from another source. Manufacturers have no qualms about copying each others' designs, so chips that look the same (either the same base chip design or the same sticker design) might not actually be the same. Alas. I haven't been bitten by this myself, but I guess I've been lucky.
I think I misread this comment. I thought you were saying who'd waste their time relabeling cheap sluggos, but you said the opposite. What I get for commenting at 3am before drifting off to sleep.
Samuel
Straight
Hi CE, I just recently came across your intro to poker chipping write up - now THAT's a write up!
Regarding these sluggos, I didn't realize how large a discrepancy in quality there could/would be for these. The base chips seem to be pretty popular, you can find quite a few designs/labels with the same chip - https://www.discountpokershop.com/loose-poker-chips-c-12.html https://www.thepokerstore.com/pages/clay-poker-chips
As for the chip in the picture (and other chips like it in my possession), to me it looks more like incomplete molding (the plastic never flowed into those open spaces) than pieces that broke away - but it's not easy to tell from a crappy picture. Here is a hopefully better one:
The rust could have been there from the factory or it could have been from me hand washing the chips a couple of times...
If I had to do it all over (labeling sluggos), knowing what I know now, I would probably buy them unlabelled - https://www.thepokerstore.com/collections/blank-8-stripe-14-gram-poker-chips or https://www.discountpokershop.com/25pc-115g-six-spot-blank-poker-chips-colors-p-703.html
so at least you would know right away if there are any problems.
(with the exception of the nice 5 chips, it almost seems like maybe "they" take all the factory seconds/blems and label them?)
Also strange is that none of the other chips in the sample sets were like those 5 gray chips, they all had holes, cracks, imperfections, etc... And, hard to tell but the 5 "good ones" have almost a semi-translucent white whereas the not so great ones have more of a flat opaque chalk white.
I just checked another set of sluggos (named "hi roller") that I had put together from a couple of orders from 2 different vendors - long story short, I bought a cheapo set from someone on OfferUp, then I ordered some more in bulk from an online vendor to add more of certain denominations/colors but they didn't match too good so I tried again from a different vendor and they weren't perfect either but were acceptable (as in I'm not spending any more money on this cheapo set, lol).
Supposedly the same chips (from different vendors/sets) but as you were saying about inconsistencies, you can see fonts are different; denoms are different for the same color(!); printing is different; some have Ben Franklin some don't; some had no flashing at all and others did; top left gray 1 has visible imperfection to upper left of the Ace of Clubs part of the label; some feel smooth under the label and some others you can feel unevenness. Many of the chips match the fit/finish/feel of the good 5 grays (i.e. no blems, no flashing, polished and they have a "waxy" kind of plastic feel and are pretty slippery).
So yeah, I have more cheapo sets than I'd like to admit to and woulda/shoulda/coulda taken that money and bought something nicer/better (which is what you experienced PCFers have been saying all along, lol smh).
Regarding these sluggos, I didn't realize how large a discrepancy in quality there could/would be for these. The base chips seem to be pretty popular, you can find quite a few designs/labels with the same chip - https://www.discountpokershop.com/loose-poker-chips-c-12.html https://www.thepokerstore.com/pages/clay-poker-chips
As for the chip in the picture (and other chips like it in my possession), to me it looks more like incomplete molding (the plastic never flowed into those open spaces) than pieces that broke away - but it's not easy to tell from a crappy picture. Here is a hopefully better one:
The rust could have been there from the factory or it could have been from me hand washing the chips a couple of times...
If I had to do it all over (labeling sluggos), knowing what I know now, I would probably buy them unlabelled - https://www.thepokerstore.com/collections/blank-8-stripe-14-gram-poker-chips or https://www.discountpokershop.com/25pc-115g-six-spot-blank-poker-chips-colors-p-703.html
so at least you would know right away if there are any problems.
(with the exception of the nice 5 chips, it almost seems like maybe "they" take all the factory seconds/blems and label them?)
Also strange is that none of the other chips in the sample sets were like those 5 gray chips, they all had holes, cracks, imperfections, etc... And, hard to tell but the 5 "good ones" have almost a semi-translucent white whereas the not so great ones have more of a flat opaque chalk white.
I just checked another set of sluggos (named "hi roller") that I had put together from a couple of orders from 2 different vendors - long story short, I bought a cheapo set from someone on OfferUp, then I ordered some more in bulk from an online vendor to add more of certain denominations/colors but they didn't match too good so I tried again from a different vendor and they weren't perfect either but were acceptable (as in I'm not spending any more money on this cheapo set, lol).
Supposedly the same chips (from different vendors/sets) but as you were saying about inconsistencies, you can see fonts are different; denoms are different for the same color(!); printing is different; some have Ben Franklin some don't; some had no flashing at all and others did; top left gray 1 has visible imperfection to upper left of the Ace of Clubs part of the label; some feel smooth under the label and some others you can feel unevenness. Many of the chips match the fit/finish/feel of the good 5 grays (i.e. no blems, no flashing, polished and they have a "waxy" kind of plastic feel and are pretty slippery).
So yeah, I have more cheapo sets than I'd like to admit to and woulda/shoulda/coulda taken that money and bought something nicer/better (which is what you experienced PCFers have been saying all along, lol smh).
Attachments
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Samuel
Straight
Maybe 1/2? I took a logo I found online and made some tweaks. I did it in photoshop so that should tell you how weak my graphic design skills are... haha
dmoney
Full House
CrazyEddie
Full House
I didn't either! We can all benefit from your unfortunate experience now.
I think you must be right. Signs of crappy process control, crappy equipment, and crappy QA. I think most of the time when you buy mass-market sluggos you're probably going to do all right and they'll be fine for whatever your purpose was in buying them; the issue is that you can't be confident.
Hard to know for sure, but I doubt it. That would require more planning (which means more expense) than I think most of the mass-market manufacturers and distributors would bother with. I think they just do a run and label them, then do a run without labeling them, and shove 'em out the door.
My guess is they're probably from two different manufacturers using two different molds and presses and plastic formulas.
Wow! Quite an eye-opener. Big differences; it's definitely a buyer-beware business.
One of my very favorite sets is a bunch of cheapo sluggers! I just happen to love the design, and I don't really mind the way they feel (they're kinda nice, actually). Never feel bad about looking for what you like.
I feel like I'll hold onto my DPS Monaco Casino chips even as I "graduate" to Spirit Mold and 8V CCs. If I eventually move onto Paulsons and CPCs--or more realistically for my wallet, cards mold chips--I may let those sluggos go. The Monacos are just so nice and clean and consistent (I'm glad I bought all the ones I thought I'd need in the same purchase to avoid differences in manufacturing runs) though...One of my very favorite sets is a bunch of cheapo sluggers! I just happen to love the design, and I don't really mind the way they feel (they're kinda nice, actually). Never feel bad about looking for what you like.
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blackshirts5115
Waiting List
Has anyone ever tried these on Majestic chips? I saw in another thread the ideal label for them is 0.98”. I wonder how the 1” stickers would fit.
Samuel
Straight
Double check with whichever company but I think you can specify the size you want?
blackshirts5115
Waiting List
Sticker Mule is the company I’m wondering about. I figure I’ll ask them if they can do 0.98 if necessary, but want to see if anyone has experience with their default one inchers. Maybe it’s a perfect fit.
I bet the space can accommodate an 1” label so it’s probably barely over an inch, and if you have a good eye and steady hands a 1” label would probably work.
In my own label making experience, I found sizing down slightly just makes it easier to apply the labels. If the labels are exactly the size of the space and you’re hand-applying it’s way harder to get it perfect and way more noticeable when it isn’t.
If your label is slightly smaller you have a little more tolerance. It’s still not gonna look correct if you misalign it greatly but if it’s roughly in the center it looks totally fine.
blackshirts5115
Waiting List
Good to know. I ordered some sample Majestics and will measure the center. Thanks for your input!
Samuel
Straight
Just a quick update on SM quality control. I've done about 250 chips so far and have come across about a dozen stickers on 2 sheets that were printed/cut off-center.
The brown one in the upper right is probably the worst and there are maybe a handful or two of those. I took a brief look at the rest of the sheets and there are maybe another couple of dozen more that are what I would consider slightly off-center (middle row of gray stickers, whole gray sticker on the left).
Between the quality of the printing and those off-center stickers, I'm not sure I would use SM again for poker chip labels - at least not for anything important or high value. I think I would probably use them for larger stickers and for projects that are more fun/less critical.
The brown one in the upper right is probably the worst and there are maybe a handful or two of those. I took a brief look at the rest of the sheets and there are maybe another couple of dozen more that are what I would consider slightly off-center (middle row of gray stickers, whole gray sticker on the left).
Between the quality of the printing and those off-center stickers, I'm not sure I would use SM again for poker chip labels - at least not for anything important or high value. I think I would probably use them for larger stickers and for projects that are more fun/less critical.
My failure rate was probably 30-40% on my first couple sheets. But I had no idea what the heck I was doing (some may say I still don't).
You're paying for a service, and I don't know how many stickers on a sheet but a dozen across two sheets definitely seems high...
You're paying for a service, and I don't know how many stickers on a sheet but a dozen across two sheets definitely seems high...
dmoney
Full House
Hoping to place an order shortly for 1,400 7/8” round stickers on 10 sheets for about ~$100.
Stay tuned!
Stay tuned!
Wait, are you saying 30-40% failure for the printing? Or for you personally applying the labels?My failure rate was probably 30-40% on my first couple sheets. But I had no idea what the heck I was doing (some may say I still don't).
You're paying for a service, and I don't know how many stickers on a sheet but a dozen across two sheets definitely seems high...
@dmoney When you place your order, are you asking for any sort of guarantee that the labels will be printed on-center? This is a BIG issue and the primary reason why I didn't use Online Labels back when I did my first DIY labels on my china clays. I could accept a small percentage being slightly off-center and a few being unusable, but I'd want a guarantee of what those percentages are so that I could increase the order a little to cover for the errors.
Samuel
Straight
I didn't think about it until now but check with SM to see if file format makes a difference! I traded emails with several SM employees and none of them said anything about it but another member here said that he was told vector format is better/preferred. (I used jpg and the product that resulted was IMO just ok, not great)...
I’m laminating the printed vinyl sticker before cutting. I’m using self-adhesive laminate. The only one I could find comes in rolls which means after I cut a piece off it curls making it hard to apply evenly without bubbles or wrinkles onto a sheet of printed vinyl sticker.
I’ve gotten better at it but at first I might get bubbles or wrinkles in the laminate that would make a portion of the sheet unusable, thus the high failure rate. No problems with printing or with applying the laminated label to the chip itself. I can remove and reapply the label onto the chip if I don’t have it perfectly centered, the adhesive isn’t that strong that it gets ruined if I have to remove and reapply.
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