My Journey As A Professional Poker Player (17 Viewers)

Been visiting this thread on and off. Cool story, and I find the part about the Cubans particularly interesting.

A lot of the hands with the Cubans that you've flagged as suspicious seem like PLO just being PLO. People get their money in bad all the time, their lines don't make sense, and then they of course win with absurd bullshit. If you're playing against people who are willing to be careless with their bets, it's a much more variable game than one where people play logically (i.e., fold a lot).

But there's one hand in particular that seems like a lot more than just Lady Luck rearing her ugly head:

I think 3 guys (the two regular cubans plus another one) were in cahoots so I got out of dodge before they got me today, left up a grand.

One straddles to 10, everyone calls, straddler makes it 50, we're all calling until last guy who makes it $255 and straddler cold calls. Pushes everyone out (third guy didn't get involved in this one)

They show up with T862 one suit and AKQ9 no suits respectively

They go once with everyone at the table but twice with each other and just smelled super fishy when the guy is calling the 10, letting his buddy make it 50 and then repopping to 255 with T862 one suit. Plus the Cubans usually buyin shorter (200-600) but both were max buying on this day to start which is out of the norm
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If I were at the table for this one, regardless of whether I was in the hand, I'm walking away and having a conversation with a manager afterward. This is obvious, sloppy collusion. Dude with T862 semi-rainbow clearly got some kind of signal from the straddler to reraise. Plus they always run it twice with each other but once with everyone else? They always insist on sitting at the exact same seats? They couldn't be more obvious about this.

Don't play with these pricks if you can help it. Even if they're shitty cheats, they're still cheats. Not sure what else they might be up to; I suppose it's possible they've enlisted a dealer or have some other way of predicting the upcoming cards, but the collusion part seems clear as day from your accounts. And other casinos have apparently banned them for shady business too. Not surprised they have to drive 4 hours for a game.

Also, don't discount the possibility that they're taking advantage of sloppy dealers. The specific choice of the 1 seat is a little unusual, considering it's typically less comfortable than other seats.

If it's reasonably possible, it might behoove you to railbird this game while they're in it, so you can monitor them more closely and from different angles. I'd watch their eyes in particular, but anything is fair game. Of course, now you're acting as security instead of playing, but it could ultimately be better for your hourly to put in observer duty if it gets these cheats out of the game. Not only are they cheating you and other players, but they could ruin the game itself if they drive enough honest players out.
 
My issue is that they're taking lines that make zero sense given board textures, ranges, etcwhen their opponents have hands they are never folding

Leading the blank turn when I flopped top set and committing for stacks, then consistantly going once in the big pots and coming from a 20-30% equity spot headsup each time to win

They do it to me and others

I get people play bad AND get lucky, but their luck seems boundless for months now, its unreal
 
Anthony Martino said:
My issue is that they're taking lines that make zero sense given board textures, ranges, etcwhen their opponents have hands they are never folding

Leading the blank turn when I flopped top set and committing for stacks, then consistantly going once in the big pots and coming from a 20-30% equity spot headsup each time to win

They do it to me and others

I get people play bad AND get lucky, but their luck seems boundless for months now, its unreal
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Yeah, it's hard for me to make sense of that.

Then again, I've had countless people lead out, stack off, and make other absurd moves in NLHE with gutshots, bottom pair, etc. and get there, and of course it's always when I have a hand I'm not going to fold (or I'd have folded it). It's a lot more memorable when they get there too. Could be that they're colluding to play an especially aggressive style that wins them a lot of uncontested pots, and it leads to a lot of unusual situations when they get looked up.

The manager is kinda right that being able to see what cards are coming seems an unlikely explanation. How would they do that? Even with marked cards, it would be difficult to pull off. Not saying it's impossible, but without specific evidence to that effect, you're just speculating.

Like I said, though, some observation time when you're not in the game could be revealing. Even better if you can coordinate it with the manager or something, so more than one pair of eyes is on them. Cheats tend to get greedy and sloppy, and these two seem like no exception, considering they've apparently been banned from multiple other cardrooms. (This is confirmed, yes?)
 
Jimulacrum said:
Yeah, it's hard for me to make sense of that.

Then again, I've had countless people lead out, stack off, and make other absurd moves in NLHE with gutshots, bottom pair, etc. and get there, and of course it's always when I have a hand I'm not going to fold (or I'd have folded it). It's a lot more memorable when they get there too. Could be that they're colluding to play an especially aggressive style that wins them a lot of uncontested pots, and it leads to a lot of unusual situations when they get looked up.

The manager is kinda right that being able to see what cards are coming seems an unlikely explanation. How would they do that? Even with marked cards, it would be difficult to pull off. Not saying it's impossible, but without specific evidence to that effect, you're just speculating.

Like I said, though, some observation time when you're not in the game could be revealing. Even better if you can coordinate it with the manager or something, so more than one pair of eyes is on them. Cheats tend to get greedy and sloppy, and these two seem like no exception, considering they've apparently been banned from multiple other cardrooms. (This is confirmed, yes?)
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I've heard from other players they were banned at some properties but don't have details

Others brought to my attention their signaling and cuban sandwiching people when I first started playing in the game, and I have witnessed it
 
As far as how they cpuld know the end result to get it in bad, a dealer would have to be involved somehow

I don't see how marked cards would help with burns part of the process. I just know it feels very off and I'm avoiding their table moving forward
 
Anthony Martino said:
I'm avoiding their table moving forward
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Smartest thing you have said in regards to this. You are a pro now. Your mission shouldn't be beating some random circumstance you have come across. You mission is nothing more than MONEY. If something is happening there, go elsewhere.

 
Anthony Martino said:
As far as how they cpuld know the end result to get it in bad, a dealer would have to be involved somehow

I don't see how marked cards would help with burns part of the process.
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Yeah, it would take a very particular method of marking cards to make it work with burns in place, and I can't imagine it would be very effective. But you never know. Every effective method of cheating was, at one point, a novel approach no one had thought of before.

I'd consider the lowest-hanging fruit to be that the dealer is just flashing cards to the 1 seat. After openers are out, the entire board is contained in just the top 8 cards from the stub. Could be intentional or just sloppy, and you'd have to watch the dealer super-closely to find out. (Maybe by railbirding behind the 1 seat?)

Anthony Martino said:
I just know it feels very off and I'm avoiding their table moving forward
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This, to me, is the main thing. You've been playing poker forever, and you play professionally now. Over the years, you're bound to develop reliable instincts; it's part of what makes you good at the game. When those instincts throw up an undeniable red flag, on top of the specific points of suspicion you've noted, it's time to walk away.
 
tabletalker7 said:
Smartest thing you have said in regards to this. You are a pro now. Your mission shouldn't be beating some random circumstance you have come across. You mission is nothing more than MONEY. If something is happening there, go elsewhere.

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While I agree that he shouldn't continue to let these grifters make a mark out of him, there's nothing wrong with him wanting to get them out of the game. Cheats ruin poker for everyone. They not only steal from everyone, but their behavior drives out the recreational players and other fish who make games good.
 
Jimulacrum said:
While I agree that he shouldn't continue to let these grifters make a mark out of him, there's nothing wrong with him wanting to get them out of the game. Cheats ruin poker for everyone. They not only steal from everyone, but their behavior drives out the recreational players and other fish who make games good.
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That is where I think you are wrong. It is not his job to make a facility run a clean game. It is the facility whose job it is to run a clean game. If said facility is not cleaning up it's own game on it's own without intervention from other players, then they aren't worth your time. Remember, no matter how much you want to play at a specific place, they want you to play there more.
 
Sounds like they are certainly colluding with the limp-reraise stuff and probably signalling in a pretty novice way most likely, but looking at their results over the sample described is near meaningless. It's live poker. How many hands can you possibly think you've seen of their play at this point?
 
CapybaraFan said:
Sounds like they are certainly colluding with the limp-reraise stuff and probably signalling in a pretty novice way most likely, but looking at their results over the sample described is near meaningless. It's live poker. How many hands can you possibly think you've seen of their play at this point?
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I mean, one could argue the sample size for Mike Postle is small too, only livestreamed games

But the goofy plays and end results told a different tale
 
Anthony Martino said:
I mean, one could argue the sample size for Mike Postle is small too, only livestreamed games

But the goofy plays and end results told a different tale
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When you get a sample the size of Postle's recorded play and have a factor like him looking down at his phone during the relevant hands, maybe you'll have a better case.
 
tabletalker7 said:
That is where I think you are wrong. It is not his job to make a facility run a clean game. It is the facility whose job it is to run a clean game. If said facility is not cleaning up it's own game on it's own without intervention from other players, then they aren't worth your time. Remember, no matter how much you want to play at a specific place, they want you to play there more.
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It's definitely not his job. That's true.

But it would benefit him to drive them out of the game, that's what I'm saying. Clearly this PLO game was a good, profitable game before they arrived; that's why he was there. Now these cheats are cutting into his hourly and potentially ruining the game for others as well, which all hurts his bottom line.

If failing to drive them out means he has to play a less profitable game just to avoid them, then driving them out is a profitable long-term move, even if it won't get an entry on his session log.
 
Postle was possibly one of the sloppiest, greediest cheats in the history of cheating.

The clip where he's trying to cheat at PLO and getting flustered by the card-reader malfunction is one of many smoking guns.

Someone ought to break his fingers and make him eat his phone.
 
Jimulacrum said:
But it would benefit him to drive them out of the game, that's what I'm saying.
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A dirty game is a dirty game. These guys are banned in certain other facilities. Those other facilities are clean games. No dirty game will ever be profitable to you as a player long term. The clean games can be.

Seriously man, what are we talking about here? Even scum like Teddy KGB ran a clean honest game, and his sole purpose in life was to hustle suckers out of their money.
 
Jimulacrum said:
Postle was possibly one of the sloppiest, greediest cheats in the history of cheating.

The clip where he's trying to cheat at PLO and getting flustered by the card-reader malfunction is one of many smoking guns.

Someone ought to break his fingers and make him eat his phone.
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Remember, the courts never said he was not a cheat. The court said the law doesn't allow them to rule on whether or not he is a cheat.
 
tabletalker7 said:
A dirty game is a dirty game. These guys are banned in certain other facilities. Those other facilities are clean games. No dirty game will ever be profitable to you as a player long term. The clean games can be.

Seriously man, what are we talking about here? Even scum like Teddy KGB ran a clean honest game, and his sole purpose in life was to hustle suckers out of their money.
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If he's dealing with the cardroom itself being involved in or complicit with the cheating, then I wholeheartedly agree with you. There's no redeeming a place like that.

But I don't see that in this case, at least not based on what Anthony has presented. I see a couple shitbutt cheats who are gradually getting themselves banned from every cardroom they can find. Once they're gone, I suspect the game will no longer be problematic, if they haven't managed to chase off everyone worth playing with. I could be wrong, but this is what it looks like to me.

tabletalker7 said:
Remember, the courts never said he was not a cheat. The court said the law doesn't allow them to rule on whether or not he is a cheat.
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The courts can say whatever they want; they're bound by what they're bound by.

In the real world, his conduct at the table was totally egregious in a way that anyone who has seen the evidence should be able to see.
 
Doubled with 66 vs AQ, flopped the 6. Up to 33.5k at 500/1k/1k

20201009_155528.jpg
 
Guy on my left ran so bad. Gets it in pre with AK suited vs KJ off, guy 4 flushes him on river

Same two guys TT vs 66 all in pre, 6 on river to bust him
 
Out 40th. Had AT with ace diamonds in blinds, 4 ways to flop of K54 all diamonds. Checked to last player (not the raiser) and he bets 20k

I checkraise all-in, he cslls with KJ of hearts, I miss my outs
 

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