Tourney Matt Savage’s recent blog post on big blind antes (1 Viewer)

glom said:
The only complaints in this thread seem to mostly be from people who have never played it, with only one exception, and the biggest concern is it’ll turn away amateurs, which is total speculation.
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I've played it, and as long as the dealer knows what's going on it wasn't a problem. Everyone at the table just accepted it and moved on. Nobody hated and nobody loved, we just played poker.

Think of it as a new circus game if that helps.
 
ekricket is right. The nice thing about poker, there are a bunch of ways to play the same game. Cash/tournament, blind structures, T2000 chips, $20 vs $25 chips, BBA/traditional ante/no ante at all. It's all out there, and all available for NL Hold'em.

BBA may be more and more common in the future, but it won't be the only way the game is dealt.
 
From the Pokernews Live report from WSOP Int. Circuit in Holland :

The players and the tournament staff have come to an agreement to change the structure. The tournament was supposed to play with a running ante, but after the players talked with the tournament staff they've changed it to a big blind ante.
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https://www.pokernews.com/tours/wso...o-rotterdam/3500-high-roller/chips.238788.htm

TDA's arent "shoving this down players throats". The players asked for it, players want this. Generally. Not saying "absolutely everyone", but most.
 
I really didn't mean to reanimate this thread with all the weird intensity people apparently feel on both sides of the BBA debate. The link I posted, which was genuinely surprising (and not in a good way) to me as a fan of the BBA, is for the use of BBA in PLO tournaments that Savage is running at the Commerce in LA. In NLH tournaments I think antes serve a purpose and I think the BBA is a better way of accomplishing that purpose. But in PLO, I just don't see it.
 
If the purpose of the ante is to 'juice the pot and increase aggressive action', why wouldn't you want it in every game, including PLO or cash games?
 
Negreanu argues antes in all games are good for the game. I realize this might be more credible if he didn’t also advocate for higher rake.
 
glom said:
The only complaints in this thread seem to mostly be from people who have never played it, with only one exception, and the biggest concern is it’ll turn away amateurs, which is total speculation.
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That is definitely not what I read. Did you skip a few pages, maybe?

Personally, I don't think I said it was good or bad, just that I believe it's a solution that doesn't address the actual cause and, hence, it's not solving a problem while creating others. So, why bother with it?
 
As a dealer, I love the big blind ante. It is definitely faster than dealing using an individual ante. Most of my players like it too. My club uses the same rules as the WSOP regarding the BBA: The big blind is posted first when the player has less than 2bb, and anyone can win the entire ante regardless of stack size. It will definitely be discussed at the next TDA Summit, and I will advocate for BB first.
 
Chris Manzoni said:
Well, I predicted it - it’s been announced that the main event in the World Series of poker will be big blind ante format. That pretty much seals it, the format is here to stay and it is now the industry standard. Incredible how fast it happened.
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I’ve been a BBA proponent as someone who likes play with antes but dislikes the administrative hassle of handling them. But even for me, this is a little surprising. If they’re doing BBA at the Main it’s hard for me to imagine them having traditional antes at very many of the smaller buy-in NLH events, if any. It is a very remarkable transition.
 
smsguy927 said:
As a dealer, I love the big blind ante. It is definitely faster than dealing using an individual ante. Most of my players like it too. My club uses the same rules as the WSOP regarding the BBA: The big blind is posted first when the player has less than 2bb, and anyone can win the entire ante regardless of stack size. It will definitely be discussed at the next TDA Summit, and I will advocate for BB first.
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I like the BB ante first method also. Glad to see the BB ante is spreading. I hope all the WSOP events use it this year. Hopefully the structures will be released soon so we will be able see.
 
Gobbs said:
Let the controversies begin...
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Honestly I don't know that there will be too much controversy, I mean I would never put it past the poker community to not complain - it's what they do, but the BBA has already been accepted by the player pool at large. Because it originated with the players themselves, elite high roller tournament players, I think players have been much quicker to embrace it than they would've if it was the creation of Matt Savage or the like.
 
Agree, a player not able to win anything but only what they put in is not something you see in Poker like ever. Matt Savage did good with the bba but his insistence on the ante going in first is very anti-recreational player.
 
Chris Manzoni said:
Agree, a player not able to win anything but only what they put in is not something you see in Poker like ever. Matt Savage did good with the bba but his insistence on the ante going in first is very anti-recreational player.
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The ante should go in first, that is how antes are supposed to work by definition. Blinds are blind bets, how can you bet if you haven't put in an ante to play the hand in the first place.
 
Traditionally the ante does go in first yes, and with traditional antes the player who is down to a single ante can win back as many antes as go in from all the other players.

With a single player anteing for the entire table, before they put their blind in, they can only win what they put in - so 'chip and a chair' ceases to exist. There is literally no way for that player to win chips from other players, something that is unprecedented in any form of poker. BB has to go in first for the short player to have any chance to come back.

Matt Savage's tournaments currently make it a mathematical impossibility for a player down to a single BBA to climb out of the hole, all they can do is win their own chips back.
 
Technically winning all of the Antes is winning money from every player. Just because you are posting all of it in the BB doesn't meant it isn't a shared asset. The rule was made to speed up the game, not change the rules entirely. Every BB ante is composed of 6-10 antes from the whole table that are all posted at once.

The argument that you cant get out of a hole winning only antes seems a little silly, if you are down to a single ante you have to win a ton of hands to be out of a hole. Even if 5 people called and you are at 5bb you are still in that hole.
 
Chris Manzoni said:
Traditionally the ante does go in first yes, and with traditional antes the player who is down to a single ante can win back as many antes as go in from all the other players.

With a single player anteing for the entire table, before they put their blind in, they can only win what they put in - so 'chip and a chair' ceases to exist. There is literally no way for that player to win chips from other players, something that is unprecedented in any form of poker. BB has to go in first for the short player to have any chance to come back.

Matt Savage's tournaments currently make it a mathematical impossibility for a player down to a single BBA to climb out of the hole, all they can do is win their own chips back.
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I think the WSOP uses the BB first method. In reality, this happens so infrequently, IMO it’s not that big of a deal.
 
The WSOP has decreed that the blind goes in first, it's at the end of the announcement - that way a player can come back. Otherwise, they can only remain at what they put in. Literally a zero sum game, which poker is not supposed to be.

I have won a tournament being down to a single ante - under Savage's system the odds of that happening would've been zero.
 
...and now we see why @BGinGA disapproves of the Big Blind Ante.

Luckily, nobody will be risking 10s, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars. :eek:
 
Chris Manzoni said:
The WSOP has decreed that the blind goes in first, it's at the end of the announcement - that way a player can come back. Otherwise, they can only remain at what they put in. Literally a zero sum game, which poker is not supposed to be.

I have won a tournament being down to a single ante - under Savage's system the odds of that happening would've been zero.
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Sure...that all makes sense if you assume that you’re the big blind every hand.
 
Frogzilla said:
Sure...that all makes sense if you assume that you’re the big blind every hand.
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You make a really good point! My brain doesn't work sometimes! If you were down to one ante, you would have a chance to win back as many antes as there are players on every hand except the one where you are on the big blind. Didn't even consider that! You right! So really, it's not that big a deal, whether the ante or blind goes in first - certainly not as big a deal as I thought. :)
 

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