Live tourney with AK (1 Viewer)

[Frogzilla]

An interesting one from yesterday…Warning now, I’m not going to say what I ended up going with on the turn, but Villain showed cards so part of the mystery will be revealed

Here we go.

Live lowish stakes tourney ($250), 45 players, 5 paid, 7 left

I’m in EP, chip leader, 50bb, active (70% vpip), and open to 2.5bb. Folds to CO, 2nd in chips 45bb, who 3bets to 7.5bb. This is his first 3 bet, been on table an hour ish. He doubled up just a couple hands ago through me, but I can’t remember the action on that hand to be honest. He played it standard whatever it was. Folds back to me. Our action as OOP facing a 3 bet?

 

[MrCatPants]

We're playing to win, not just to cash - calling here and fit or folding the flop is -EV. 3 bets late in tourneys in my opinion tend to be less frequent and lean towards strength, also he shouldn't want to tangle with you as the chip leader. How short are the short stacks?

On the other end of the argument, if you've been VPIPing 70% there's a lot of hands he may feel comfortable 3-betting you with that you are ahead of. Without more intel here I'd say this is AJs+, suited connectors QJs+ AQo+, 99+ in terms of range.

Raise to 16 or 17 BB. Cringe call a jam.

 

[upNdown]

I’m a call > fold > raise here. And frankly the line between call and fold is thinner than it should be.
You said yourself you haven’t seen the guy 3-bet yet. I’d guess more likely than not, he’s ahead. Folding here is definitely exploitable and that’s why I’d hesitate to do it. But I don’t see the need to tangle with the 2nd biggest stack at this point in the tournament, out of position, when he’s probably already got a hand. But since we’re having this discussion, I’m assuming you did. Godspeed.

 

[Highli99]

Jam all in.

 

[CraigT78]

I've played poker with you. This is a "how should I have played this" post, because we all know you jammed.

 

[Frogzilla]

We're playing to win, not just to cash - calling here and fit or folding the flop is -EV. 3 bets late in tourneys in my opinion tend to be less frequent and lean towards strength, also he shouldn't want to tangle with you as the chip leader. How short are the short stacks?

I think Button was sitting on <10. Never played with Button before and kinda hard to profile. He was playing tight. The other 4 had somewhere between 15 and 30. SB and BB look like they play tight and passive and so far have been tight and passive.

 

[Highli99]

I’m a call > fold > raise here. And frankly the line between call and fold is thinner than it should be.
You said yourself you haven’t seen the guy 3-bet yet. I’d guess more likely than not, he’s ahead. Folding here is definitely exploitable and that’s why I’d hesitate to do it. But I don’t see the need to tangle with the 2nd biggest stack at this point in the tournament, out of position, when he’s probably already got a hand. But since we’re having this discussion, I’m assuming you did. Godspeed.

I know you’re a tournament guy (I’m more a cash player), but with 50 BB are ever really seriously considering folding with AK here? I get it something ICM might apply but we are short handed. All in Puts max pressure on everything and except KK+ and our hand has decent equity regardless. Not having position is exactly why we need to raise.

 

[upNdown]

I know you’re a tournament guy (I’m more a cash player), but with 50 BB are ever really seriously considering folding with AK here? I get it something ICM might apply but we are short handed. All in Puts max pressure on everything and except KK+ and our hand has decent equity regardless. Not having position is exactly why we need to raise.

No realistically with 50bb we’re not folding here. But it’s just annoying, because given our reads and ICM and everything, I’m check-folding any flop that I don’t hit. Which is a stupid way to play.
I can’t see any reason to jam against this opponent with that stack.

 

[Highli99]

I can’t see any reason to jam against this opponent with that stack.

Because you can avoid this and realize your equity

I’m check-folding any flop that I don’t hit. Which is a stupid way to play.

Seriously, most small pairs are folding and any ace that calls you have crushed. Even against big pairs you have decent equity. And your big stack which matters.

I don’t feel like this is high level stuff to be saying.

 

[upNdown]

Because you can avoid this and realize your equity


Seriously, most small pairs are folding and any ace that calls you have crushed. Even against big pairs you have decent equity. And your big stack which matters.

I don’t feel like this is high level stuff to be saying.

Well what do you think the villain has here? He’s playing straight up, this is the first 3-bet we’ve seen from him, and he 3-bets into the big stack?
You think he has a small pair? A crap ace? I don’t think so.
I’m with you 100% at a cash table. But at this point in the tournament we are in a great place to find plenty of good spots. This doesn’t feel like one to me.

 

[Eriks]

This is why tournament poker sucks. I’m suppose to consider not going broke with AK and 45bbs?

Calling and playing fit or fold oop seems like simply giving away chips. We block AA and KK and is only in really deep shit if he has the former. Can we just click it back and then call a shove or is it better to just rip it in ourselves?

 

[Highli99]

Well what do you think the villain has here? He’s playing straight up, this is the first 3-bet we’ve seen from him, and he 3-bets into the big stack?
You think he has a small pair? A crap ace? I don’t think so.
I’m with you 100% at a cash table. But at this point in the tournament we are in a great place to find plenty of good spots. This doesn’t feel like one to me.

Even AQ is in bad shape and I think he’s betting any ace except a/6/7/8

There are sooo many combos we do well against here and so few that our equity is bad.

One hour of live play is probably only 25 to 30 hands. Not a very good sample size. Stick to ranges and reap the rewards. Slay the dragon under the bed and leverage your stack.

 

[Legend5555]

What are stack sizes of the other players? That is highly relevant here.

 

[Frogzilla]

What are stack sizes of the other players? That is highly relevant here.

One shortie at 10ish and the other 4 are 15-30 bb

 

[RainmanTrail]

[edit, I thought he said villain had less than 30BB, but villain had 45BB, so this post below doesn't apply. But I'll leave it as I originally posted anyhow]

So you have 50BB, and everyone else has less than 30BB? And you're on the bubble and someone else has less than 10BB?

This is an easy decision. I'm shoving 100% of the time here. Might throw in a little, "KK? Well, if you got it, you got it. I'm all in" before shoving my chips in, but my chips are going in here pre flop, all day every day. Villain probably has AK, QQ, or JJ, and I'd expect a fold from him a non-trivial percentage of the time because of ICM and the bubble.

 

[Frogzilla]

The villain in hand is around 45 bb. Pretty big gap from 2nd to 3rd

 

[RainmanTrail]

The villain in hand is around 45 bb. Pretty big gap from 2nd to 3rd

Oh, I misread then. I'd just call in that case.

 

[Frogzilla]

Part 2. The thought of folding AK and just moving onto a safer spot crossed my mind, but mostly I was between calling and raising. Too deep to jam I think although the overbet jam puts V in an impossibly tough ICM spot. And raising, well if we get 5-bet that sucks, and if we get called that means playing a 4-bet pot with like a 2 SPR. Again ICM works for us in that situation, if villain isn’t punty. Bust most of this field is ICM punty. No bubble maneuvers in Texas.

I decided on call. Onto the flop
7 left 5 paid
H (50 bb chipleader) raises EP to 2.5
V (45 bb #2 in chips) 3bets CO to 7.5
H calls

Flop (17.5 bb)
Flop action?

 

[nauseant]

Part 2. The thought of folding AK and just moving onto a safer spot crossed my mind, but mostly I was between calling and raising. Too deep to jam I think although the overbet jam puts V in an impossibly tough ICM spot. And raising, well if we get 5-bet that sucks, and if we get called that means playing a 4-bet pot with like a 2 SPR. Again ICM works for us in that situation, if villain isn’t punty. Bust most of this field is ICM punty. No bubble maneuvers in Texas.

I decided on call. Onto the flop
7 left 5 paid
H (50 bb chipleader) raises EP to 2.5
V (45 bb #2 in chips) 3bets CO to 7.5
H calls

Flop (17.5 bb)
Flop action?

This is as good a flop you could hope for if you called pre, I'd be check-raise jamming here.

Doubt he has a set here, 88 and 77 don't feel like a 3-bet pre hand from the way you described his play. If they fold a draw, great, you win a sizeable pot. if they call a draw, great, you're favourite to win. If they have AA it's a cooler

 

[Legend5555]

One shortie at 10ish and the other 4 are 15-30 bb

Then jam. If the guy knows anything about ICM he will have to fold a ton of his range. And if he calls, hopefully we are flipping. We are only in bad shape vs 2 hands and our hand reduces those combos by half. Plus if we do get called and win, we basically have won the tournament.

 

[RainmanTrail]

This would really depend on my read of how villain plays. If he's spewy and incapable of checking back a hand like QQ here, then I'd lean toward a check raise, but otherwise, I'd just donk bet the flop. Half pot or so is fine, so is full pot or 1.5x pot, just mix up your bet sizing. It sorta turns your hand face up, but so does a check/call, and a check/raise against a solid player is pretty pointless unless villain has a payoff hand like AQ anyhow, and we don't want to let it go check/check for villain hands like TT-KK. Just bet.

 

[MrCatPants]

Thinking about their range here...

AA has you dead, and if this is the case ace it's just RIP.
Pairs that 3-bet pre (99-KK) are likely checking back if you check, if this player is tight, they may be make an ICM fold to a donk bet.
AK and worse aces are c-betting here if checked to, calling or perhaps raising a donk bet
Combo draw hands if they are in this guy's range (e.g. QJh) are c-betting and probably calling everything (maybe even a jam?)
Other drawing hands (e.g. J10 non-hearts suited) have few combos, call a small bet and probably fold to a jam)
Gutter draws are probably a check or a fold to a bet
88 and 77 should be highly unlikely from this player description

We are ahead way more often than we are behind, but the only hands we are ahead of that bet if we check also call/jam if we donk (all the broadway ace combos).

As played, I think I like a donk lead here - 40% of pot or so, like 7-8 BB.

 

[Frogzilla]

Part 3: Went with a check just out of default. Ace high boards should be good for 3 better, not interested in a donk range. Also not trying to get stacks in. CO checks back.

7 left 5 paid
H (50 bb chipleader) raises EP to 2.5
V (45 bb #2 in chips) 3bets CO to 7.5
H calls

Flop (17.5 bb)
Check check
Turn (17.5 bb)

 

[JMC9389]

Check.

 

[MrCatPants]

Ew.

Check.

Hands with one heart, A10, really x10 or xJ all pick up a ton of equity. 9s set against us. They are unlikely to fold here and would be betting for thin value for our tournament lives.

 

[nauseant]

Part 3: Went with a check just out of default. Ace high boards should be good for 3 better, not interested in a donk range. Also not trying to get stacks in. CO checks back.

7 left 5 paid
H (50 bb chipleader) raises EP to 2.5
V (45 bb #2 in chips) 3bets CO to 7.5
H calls

Flop (17.5 bb)
Check check
Turn (17.5 bb)

One of the worst cards that could have come out,

Check/fold time for me, lots of hands that now beat you in his range but if you have 70% Vpip, lots of hands are in your range here too, if he bets, it's only with the winning hand in my eyes.

 

[Legend5555]

One of the worst cards that could have come out

How? Is villain going to 3bet JT AND check that flop? How can villain have a flush unless it's a Broadway heart heart hand. And again, they check that flop? Villain can't have Ah, so that's another chunk of 3 betting hands they can't have. So unless they are playing a hand very weirdly, they can't have a flush or a straight. Best they can have is KhK.

I think we have to bet here to protect our equity. Yeah, it sucks if we get raised, but they can't easily have us beat here given the action.

 

[upNdown]

How? Is villain going to 3bet JT AND check that flop? How can villain have a flush unless it's a Broadway heart heart hand. And again, they check that flop? Villain can't have Ah, so that's another chunk of 3 betting hands they can't have. So unless they are playing a hand very weirdly, they can't have a flush or a straight. Best they can have is KhK.

I think we have to bet here to protect our equity. Yeah, it sucks if we get raised, but they can't easily have us beat here given the action.

That's what I was thinking - we're ahead here more often than not. Now that we're in this situation, I'd bet.

 

[RainmanTrail]

How? Is villain going to 3bet JT AND check that flop? How can villain have a flush unless it's a Broadway heart heart hand. And again, they check that flop? Villain can't have Ah, so that's another chunk of 3 betting hands they can't have. So unless they are playing a hand very weirdly, they can't have a flush or a straight. Best they can have is KhK.

I think we have to bet here to protect our equity. Yeah, it sucks if we get raised, but they can't easily have us beat here given the action.

Not sure if you're joking or not, it's difficult to tell on the interwebs sometimes, lol. But it's a terrible turn for us against villain's entire range here. Not just vs KKh. 55, 66, 99, TT, and JJ all just picked up either a set or straight straws, and any pocket pair with a heart just picked up a flush draw, and any Ace holding with a heart that we were previously ahead of also just picked up a flush draw. And JTs just kicked our ass. Honestly, if you were to ask me what the last card in the entire deck was that I'd want to see here on this turn, I would have answered with "the 9h".

 

[RainmanTrail]

Turn card sucks. Worst card in the deck. But we're still ahead of his range. This is why I would have donk bet the flop. It's ok to check it down now and hope villain checks it back as well. The problem now though is that we hand over control to the villain and they can bet us off of AK here with a hand like QcQs. My action here would depend on my read of the villain. But betting, check calling, and check folding are all valid options on the table on this turn depending on who you think you're up against and how they play.