I'm sorry, Phil, I don't remember: Mike McDermott's hand in Atlantic City (1 Viewer)

[WedgeRock]

I found an original script for Rounders online, and it gives more detail than the hand that was shown in the movie.

Originally, it was supposed to be Hellmurh, not Chan. In the movie, Mikey 3-bets Chan's raise PF, then 5-bets Chan's re-raise and takes it down without a flop.

But in the original script, Mikey raised 89 suited against Helmuth's BB, then flatted Helmuth's re-raise and bluffed on a KKJ board.

 

[Daniel Albarran]

In the movie, McDermott says Chan is playing 300-600. You can see Chan has around 10 blinds in chips and some cash behind (was that allowed?) and McDermott has 6k too.
-Chan raises but you can see he calls with 6 $100 chips.
-McDermott says he 3-bets I guess to 1,200.
-Chan 4-bets I guess to 2,400.
-McDermott 5-bets I guess to 4,800 (he doesn't say he moved all-in).
-Chan folds, leaving himself with 6 blinds and the load of cash.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Thoughts?

 

[Colquhoun]

I think the producers realized that if it was Helmuth, he wouldn’t have folded. He would’ve gone all-in, lost on the river, the whined about it until they ran out of film.

 

[upNdown]

In the movie, McDermott says Chan is playing 300-600. You can see Chan has around 10 blinds in chips and some cash behind (was that allowed?) and McDermott has 6k too.
-Chan raises but you can see he calls with 6 $100 chips.
-McDermott says he 3-bets I guess to 1,200.
-Chan 4-bets I guess to 2,400.
-McDermott 5-bets I guess to 4,800 (he doesn't say he moved all-in).
-Chan folds, leaving himself with 6 blinds and the load of cash.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Thoughts?

Hmm. I guess I always assumed that 300-600 game was fixed limit.

 

[Daniel Albarran]

Hmm. I guess I always assumed that 300-600 game was fixed limit.

Maybe!

 

[doublebooyah85]

Hmm. I guess I always assumed that 300-600 game was fixed limit.

For sure was fixed limit

 

[Daniel Albarran]

That's even worse. Why doesn't Chan see a flop then, try and outplay the tourist!

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

That's even worse. Why doesn't Chan see a flop then, try and outplay the tourist!

Limit is all about saving single bets! Pick a better spot against pretty boy Damon lol

 

[Daniel Albarran]

Limit is all about saving single bets! Pick a better spot against pretty boy Damon lol

Yeah, right about that too. Don't have a lot of experience with limit games.

 

[WedgeRock]

Chan raises but you can see he calls with 6 $100 chips.

In $300/$600 limit, the small bet would be $300 per raise. So when Mike bet $300, Chan's raise would be $300 + a $300 raise, so $600.

Then again, limit is usually capped at 3 raises, so Mikey couldn't have 5-bet. And even if raises were uncapped,l in this game, there is no way Chan is not seeing a flop for $300, when the pot is $2700ish.

-McDermott says he 3-bets I guess to 1,200.
-Chan 4-bets I guess to 2,400.
-McDermott 5-bets I guess to 4,800 (he doesn't say he moved all-in).

Mike's 3-bet would be $900, Chan's 4-bet would be $1200 and Mike's 5-bet would be $1500.

 

[mipevi]

There is a flop shown before they go to war, prolly the KKJ.

 

[WedgeRock]

There is a flop shown before they go to war, prolly the KKJ.

Looks like three face cards.

 

[mipevi]

I think the script makes sense, seems like Damon just didn't follow it when telling Mikey's story. Like he just listed the aggressive lines the players took, but didn't separate between pre and post flop action.

 

[Daniel Albarran]

There is a flop shown before they go to war, prolly the KKJ.

View attachment 1613147

What a dummy, I missed it completely, I was laser focused on the chips lol. Then I guess McDermott's story is all about the flop.
Lines up with the script, makes more sense now!

 

[mipevi]

This is how the action unfolded based on the script, and which parts I think were included or not in the retelling of the hand shown in the clip. Butchered the story and Knish just nodding along like that was an actual hand, WTF?

Preflop (not mentioned)
LP raise (not mentioned)
BB 3bet (He raised 1:14)
LP 4bet (I reraise 1:23)
BB call (not mentioned)

Flop KKJ (not mentioned)
BB bet (He just comes right back over the top 1:28)
LP raise (I reraise 1:34)
BB fold (He mucked it 1:42)

 

[doublebooyah85]

There was a great YouTube breakdown explaining how Mike is really bad at poker lol

 

[Daniel Albarran]

There was a great YouTube breakdown explaining how Mike is really bad at poker lol

He put his whole roll on one session, he could've gone straight to the WSOP and played a bunch of the side events. Poker wise, it didn't feel like he learned anything, he played exactly the same throughout the movie. When he plays KGB the second time he moves all in on the first hand, Teddy could've called him with anything and sucked out.

AND HE TURNED DOWN FAMKE JANSSEN.

 

[WedgeRock]

The script also reveals that Petrovsky tells Mike where to go to cash the check, that they will cash his personal check without question (which answers why there was no fee taken for cashing the $10k check, but leads to more questions why Dean Petrovsky had a relationship with a sleezy check cashing joint).

Also, Neve Campbell was supposed to play Jo instead of Gretchen Mol.

 

[JustinInMN]

But in the original script, Mikey raised 89 suited against Helmuth's BB, then flatted Helmuth's re-raise and bluffed on a KKJ board.

I definitely like the fuller version of this from the original script posted here.

This also pays off huge at the end of the movie because

Spoiler: Spoiler from a movie that came out in 1998

89 suited is the had he beats KGB with at the end. But this time Mike catches his flop and does his best Chan v Seidel impression.

But with that detail reduced to "rags" in the final version, we miss this moment.

They must have felt this story dragged on so they chopped it up. I always noticed there was a flop on the table as the others have noticed and getting Chan to fold to one bet on the flop makes way more sense than preflop. If a pro thinks an amateur tourist is playing strong on a flop like this, he's usually going to give him credit and make this sort of laydown routinely. (Otherwise you are calling off 2 big bets on the back end drawing thin to dead. This is a bad deal without knowing there's at least some chance of a bluff.)

Now seeing the full narrative in this post makes way more sense. And it does make me feel really bad they chose to cut this down so much, regardless of whether it was Phil or Chan in that seat.

 

[JustinInMN]

The script also reveals that Petrovsky tells Mike where to go to cash the check, that they will cash his personal check without question (which answers why there was no fee taken for cashing the $10k check, but leads to more questions why Dean Petrovsky had a relationship with a sleezy check cashing joint).

I think this is good information for a lawyer to have, never know when his clientele would need this help. Maybe the place is run by a trusted family member of Petrovsky's as well .

 

[JustinInMN]

AND HE TURNED DOWN FAMKE JANSSEN.

This is the detail about the movie that has always bothered me more than anything. She is giving bad news about your deadbeat friend, has to collect some good faith money from you which is somewhat emasculating, but is still clearly quite willing? If she had told me Worm stole 20x that and was still willing, I am going to put my anger toward my deadbeat friend aside for at least 2-3 minutes and get the job done.

 

[Jaxen]

Here's my question ... outside of going to the University of Houston when his family owned restaurants out there, Johnny Chan's a West Coast guy (lived in Vegas and L.A.). If he was Vegas based, why would he be in Atlantic City or New York?
Hellmuth lived in his native Wisconsin before making it really, really big and that would make more sense.
But, yeah, flops and cards and stuff ....

 

[JustinInMN]

Here's my question ... outside of going to the University of Houston when his family owned restaurants out there, Johnny Chan's a West Coast guy (lived in Vegas and L.A.). If he was Vegas based, why would he be in Atlantic City or New York?
Hellmuth lived in his native Wisconsin before making it really, really big and that would make more sense.
But, yeah, flops and cards and stuff ....

The Taj in AC was a tournament destination in the 90s for sure. Wouldn't be that out of character for pros from all over to be there from time to time for such events. And playing high side games like 300/600 limit.