How would you have played it? (1 Viewer)

[Teach42]

First time doing one of these. Tournament game. Hero has 11K has 8d10d and 150 in the big blind. Villain 1 is UTG +1 with 6k and calls 150. Villain 2 is CO with 11.5k and calls. 3 others limp in, so pot is 900.

Flop comes Jd 6c 9d. Small blind checks to Hero.

What do you do?

 

[judgeanjury]

Bet 450. Gets rid of the shoe clerks and crumb bums. If no one has anything you win the pot outright.

Expect a few callers but that will be ok especially if you hit the turn.

Havent thought through a re-raise but cant imagine that happening.

 

[tabletalker7]

Bet 450. Gets rid of the shoe clerks and crumb bums. If no one has anything you win the pot outright.

Expect a few callers but that will be ok especially if you hit the turn.

Havent thought through a re-raise but cant imagine that happening.

1/2 the pot might not be enough here to scare away other draws - I bet 900. Just take it down now.

 

[JoeBGo]

I think a bet between 500-700 and obviously call any reraise. I don’t think you’re getting away from that hand until the river no matter what. If you pick up any callers and whiff the turn I’d still fire another 60% of the pot on the turn. Nail the flush or straight on the turn and fire a pot size bet. I hate betting on unmade hands, but that’s a pretty favorable flop.

 

[Moxie Mike]

So if I understand correctly, you check your option out of the BB to take a flop 6 handed?

Obviously you've smashed this flop and getting your chips in ASAP should be the goal. Since you haven't said anything about your opponents' tendencies or any observations you made this advice is kind of generic.

In this spot, your hand is super well disguised. Against 6 opponents, I would check when checked to from the SB. It's reasonably likely given the limping ranges of most random players that someone connected with this flop... with 4 remaining opponents I would assume someone will bet this flop. I'm looking to put in a big c/r here, hoping to get repopped so we can get it all in. If nothing else, by taking the lead on the flop HERO can bet strongly on any turn card and jam the river if you decide to.

 

[chipsncoffee]

I'll agree with @Moxie Mike that we should probably have a lot more information about the table, player tendencies, etc., but obviously we're crushing this flop. Let's look at some equity possibilities starting with the most likely to least likely:

• A villain flops a pair of jacks. We'll just use KJo as an example. We're out in front with no pair with 55% equity.
• A villain flops top two pair with J9o. We're still out in front (barely) with just a touch over 50% equity
• A villain flops a set of, we'll say, 6's. We still have ~41% equity. Sure, you're behind, but not enough to ever be folding.

Considering that we're playing relatively deep with ~73BB. We've got room to move around here, but I'm not trying to scare ANY of the players away. My plan is to check-raise hoping that one of our villain's has a limping range that includes KJo, QJo, JTs, JTo, J9s, J9o. I think the best way to extract value here is to let someone else bet, put in the check-raise, and hope that they can't fold TP to one bet.

At the ABSOLUTE worst, we're a 1.5:1 underdog. We need to get all of the chips in the middle.

 

[Teach42]

Based on the unanimity of the group, I didn't play it aggressive enough. I bet 150, hoping to keep some people in and build up the pot. Villain 1 raises to 750. Villain 2 calls. Folds around to me and I call to see the next card and hopefully get a hit.

Turn comes and now the board is Jd 6c 9d Js.

??

 

[DrStrange]

I think a tricky / trappy line < check planning to check raise > on the flop is fine. So is a smash mouth < bet, bet, bet >line. Hero has a lot of equity, he can splash around. It is very early in the event, have some fun. Perhaps we would like not to go broke so soon? But if there are rebuys, I think all-in on the flop would be acceptable vs most villains.

But the turn is a "turd in the punch bowl". Hero is still drawing and could be drawing almost dead. Stick me with a fork, I am done here. Check/fold to any sort of significant bet. Hero's RIO risk is high, I don't think it is all that close. As noted, we are early in the event. Let's get on to the next hand only with a flesh wound. Hero seems to have an "M" of 50 or ~~75BB. This is no time to bet the farm.

DrStrange

 

[JoeBGo]

That’s a super gross turn. Check and hope you can see a cheap river, if not....fold.

 

[Frogzilla]

I don’t mind bluffing the turn but also check-call is fine. It’s hard to misplay combos

Edit: leaning harder and harder towards bluffing the turn. The Jack is a pretty good card for us

 

[Teach42]

Turn worries me and I'm on the draw, despite it being a very good looking draw.

Hero checks.
Villain 1 pushes all in for 5.1k.
Villain 2 calls for half his stack.

There's 13.4k in the pot. Hero has 11k in front of him.

Last pause before the conclusion. What should hero do?

 

[JoeBGo]

Throw ‘em in the muck unless it’s a rebuy tournament!

 

[BGinGA]

Fold.

 

[chipsncoffee]

I hate this turn. It seriously couldn’t have been worse. At this point we are only counting on the or the to make the best hand as we may be up against trips, full houses, and better flush draws. 8 outs once just isn’t enough to call off half your stack. Gotta throw it away.

 

[tabletalker7]

Fold - this stinks like someone flopped a set and just went full

 

[upNdown]

Did you consider potting it preflop? You're gonna take the whole thing down, right there, more often than not. If you get one caller, you can chase him away with a continuation bet, more often than not. It's just one of those situations that requires zero thought.

 

[BrightlyDumb]

From my perspective, you're exposed to a 40% loss on an effective 12% win option. Throw it away would be my vote.

 

[Teach42]

I did wind up folding there.

River was 3s.
Villain 1 showed Jh4h and was knocked out.
Villain 2 showed KsJc and won the pot.

Clearly my big mistake was not betting out more on the flop. I know it would have helped to have more context of the players. There was a very good chance that these guys would have called a 1k or 2k bet with top pair. It's not a rebuy tourney, but at only a $10 buy in, people play pretty loose.

Anyway, thanks for playing along. I hated folding a draw like that, and one friend berated me for it. But I was confident that folding on the turn was the right move, just wasn't sure if I should have played the flop differently. Appreciate seeing how y'all broke it down.

 

[chipsncoffee]

Tell your friend to pound sand.

KJ was never going anywhere, especially in a $10 tournament.

 

[JMC9389]

I did wind up folding there.

River was 3s.
Villain 1 showed Jh4h and was knocked out.
Villain 2 showed KsJc and won the pot.

Clearly my big mistake was not betting out more on the flop. I know it would have helped to have more context of the players. There was a very good chance that these guys would have called a 1k or 2k bet with top pair. It's not a rebuy tourney, but at only a $10 buy in, people play pretty loose.

Anyway, thanks for playing along. I hated folding a draw like that, and one friend berated me for it. But I was confident that folding on the turn was the right move, just wasn't sure if I should have played the flop differently. Appreciate seeing how y'all broke it down.

Sure was. The only hands calling a big bet post flop is someone with a better draw than yours or an over pair higher than Jacks.

In this spot I'd bet 1/2 to 3/4 pot and check/fold after that gross turn.

 

[T206]

Same as JMC. Bet pretty heavy on the flop and slow down immediately on the turn. Too many things got there that can beat you now.

 

[TwoSevenOff]

Agree with the others. 150 bet into a 900 pot on the flop was way too skittish.

 

[Teach42]

Agree with the others. 150 bet into a 900 pot on the flop was way too skittish.

At the time, I was planning on a re-raise. I didn't anticipate him bouncing it that much. But what I'm realizing now is that I gave away control of the hand.

 

[Steve Birrer]

Agree with the consensus here. Gotta bet close to pot post flop. Then check/fold the turn.

 

[JustinInMN]

Based on the unanimity of the group, I didn't play it aggressive enough. I bet 150, hoping to keep some people in and build up the pot. Villain 1 raises to 750. Villain 2 calls. Folds around to me and I call to see the next card and hopefully get a hit.

Turn comes and now the board is Jd 6c 9d Js.

I don't hate this line either, other than the fact it is a sizing tell if you don't use this sizing with some of your stronger possible holdings here (like sets).

But that said, the mission should have been to get chips in on the flop and missing the 3-bet here is against that mission. It's really going to put the screws to the Jx hands, the only sure callers will be the sets, which really seems likely to be only 66 unless we think villains can limp pre with 99 or JJ instead of raising.

Another reason to go for the 3 bet flop here is you will want to disguise hands where you 3-bet for value here (presumably sets), otherwise anyone paying attention will have easy lay-downs against you. There really isn't much value for villains to have on this flop, the only crushing thing to run into is 66 and maybe J9. Hard for them to have the bigger sets without having raised preflop.

Yes you probably get broke on this line as the cards ran out if one of the villains call you with a J. But you would have given yourself a chance to win this without a fight. Obviously when the turn hits, there is no way villains fold.

There is so much upside to the 3 bet flop I think it merits more discussion, the only real downside I see is what actually happened, the case jack hit the turn. Usually you will get a helpful turn, or a turn that scares off single jacks if you start to tell this story on the flop.

 

[Legend5555]

Late to the party.

We have a ton of equity, but the pot is 6 ways. It's tempting to want to lead out, however we have a lot going against us there IMO. We are OOP, which sucks. Our hand while pretty doesn't necessarily play great multiway in the sense that it's hard to realize all our fold equity. And leading out doesn't really guarantee many folds.

In theory, if people were playing correctly, a lead out here would look very strong and should preclude anyone from calling that doesn't have TP or better, or a nut draw. And we obviously don't want nut draws to hang around.

I'd advocate for a flop check raise. Which may vary based on where the initial bet (if any) comes from, and the number of callers. Ideally, a late pos player will bet, you c/r, and everyone in between is forced to fold. Then you are heads up with the betting lead and a ton of equity.

It would get rather tricky if the bet came from the player to your left and there were some calls. As now the pot would be substantial, and any raise would basically commit you.

As played, easy check fold on the turn IMO. Either player could easily have a J with the action this far. And you aren't getting them off that obviously.