realnga
Sitting Out
Anyone else have trouble folding AA or do you accept when you're beat?
How often do you fold AA on a very connected board? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter realnga
- Start date
DrStrange
4 of a Kind
I often fold aces with a deepish stack and a very connected board.
Aces are in bad shape vs a wet board with deep stacks. On the worst day, aces are drawing to runner runner full houses or occasional chops. On the better days, villain "only" has a weak combo draw - say nine outs twice ( eg.
with villain playing 
making 4 sevens + 3 eights + 2 nines in outs) Lots of times villains hold bigger draws, sometimes monster draws.
If the SPR was really low, the dead money can justify the risk taken playing aces vs an unknown quality draw / made hand. But if the SPR is medium to big, perhaps as low as four(?), then the RIO risks are too high vs the reward, making a fold the best play.
These types of situations are ones where Hero's table image matters. A serious TAG raise says big pair, big ace or maybe the better suited Broadway cards. A LAG's raise could easily be smaller pairs for a set or medium connected cards which can play back. Deep stacks + a hard core TAG image + competent villains = major problems for hero. Thus TAG Hero will be finding folding the best options.
For the love of money, please oh please don't show your good folds with aces. All that does is invite even more future trouble. Better to mumble "AK no good" and toss them away.
Think of this as a test for graduating out of fish school. If you can't fold aces when the hammer of doom is falling on your head, then you at least know one of the leaks to work upon.
DrStrange
Aces are in bad shape vs a wet board with deep stacks. On the worst day, aces are drawing to runner runner full houses or occasional chops. On the better days, villain "only" has a weak combo draw - say nine outs twice ( eg.
with villain playing making 4 sevens + 3 eights + 2 nines in outs) Lots of times villains hold bigger draws, sometimes monster draws.If the SPR was really low, the dead money can justify the risk taken playing aces vs an unknown quality draw / made hand. But if the SPR is medium to big, perhaps as low as four(?), then the RIO risks are too high vs the reward, making a fold the best play.
These types of situations are ones where Hero's table image matters. A serious TAG raise says big pair, big ace or maybe the better suited Broadway cards. A LAG's raise could easily be smaller pairs for a set or medium connected cards which can play back. Deep stacks + a hard core TAG image + competent villains = major problems for hero. Thus TAG Hero will be finding folding the best options.
For the love of money, please oh please don't show your good folds with aces. All that does is invite even more future trouble. Better to mumble "AK no good" and toss them away.
Think of this as a test for graduating out of fish school. If you can't fold aces when the hammer of doom is falling on your head, then you at least know one of the leaks to work upon.
DrStrange
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
The more you play the more you'll spot the instances where AA is no good and drawing too thin. Understanding flop-texture is the key to winning an losing at hold'em imo. Being good with starting hands will only take you so far.
I think a lot of suckers fail to realize the huge difference between a Q-8-2 rainbow flop and J-T-9 suited flops. They still figure and overpair is an overpair. Start by evaluating flops in terms of which are closer to safe and which are closer to dangerous.
Also the tough part about hands like AA in these situations is the best play is often opponent dependent. Against a maniac you often have to call on uncomfortable flops just because if they're wide enough to have a flush, they're also wide enough to have holdings that AA is favorable or at least less than dead against.
But experience is the best teacher here. It'll come with time.
I think a lot of suckers fail to realize the huge difference between a Q-8-2 rainbow flop and J-T-9 suited flops. They still figure and overpair is an overpair. Start by evaluating flops in terms of which are closer to safe and which are closer to dangerous.
Also the tough part about hands like AA in these situations is the best play is often opponent dependent. Against a maniac you often have to call on uncomfortable flops just because if they're wide enough to have a flush, they're also wide enough to have holdings that AA is favorable or at least less than dead against.
But experience is the best teacher here. It'll come with time.
Yes. It can be very frustrating.
I usually play whatever’s between TAG and LAG (MAG?) but when things are going bad for me, I tend to tighten up. And that’s SO exolotable. And so very much not fun.
But to answer your question, OP, when I’m playing well, I’ll usually rely on reads and instincts in that situation. Sometimes I’m right. Sadly, when I do fold AA, there’s usually a good chunk of my stack in the pot. They’re tough to let go.
I also find that ranging your opponents is key. Several ways to do this. Making a solid raise pre can narrow their range, position helps narrow their range, their play style also factors into this. Does the board texture hit their range?
I know this isn’t necessarily what you’re dealing with, but I have a buddy who is lucky as hell and has done well, but refuses to listen to my repeated pleas to raise pre with big pairs (aces n kings). He keeps choosing to limp in, saying he’s lost with them so many times that he doesn’t want to commit much to the pot. I’ve made every argument why this is a horrible proposition. He gets into 5-6 way limped pots with ACEs then doesnt know how to proceed (no idea where he’s at). Had he raised pre, he’d be able to range his opponents (narrow down their holdings) and reduce the field. Here’s a thought, if you didn’t limp in pre, you’d prob not lose with them so much.
I know this isn’t necessarily what you’re dealing with, but I have a buddy who is lucky as hell and has done well, but refuses to listen to my repeated pleas to raise pre with big pairs (aces n kings). He keeps choosing to limp in, saying he’s lost with them so many times that he doesn’t want to commit much to the pot. I’ve made every argument why this is a horrible proposition. He gets into 5-6 way limped pots with ACEs then doesnt know how to proceed (no idea where he’s at). Had he raised pre, he’d be able to range his opponents (narrow down their holdings) and reduce the field. Here’s a thought, if you didn’t limp in pre, you’d prob not lose with them so much.
Have your pick
Bonus
Bonus
I know this isn’t necessarily what you’re dealing with, but I have a buddy who is lucky as hell and has done well, but refuses to listen to my repeated pleas to raise pre with big pairs (aces n kings). He keeps choosing to limp in, saying he’s lost with them so many times that he doesn’t want to commit much to the pot. I’ve made every argument why this is a horrible proposition. He gets into 5-6 way limped pots with ACEs then doesnt know how to proceed (no idea where he’s at). Had he raised pre, he’d be able to range his opponents (narrow down their holdings) and reduce the field. Here’s a thought, if you didn’t limp in pre, you’d prob not lose with them so much.
That’s funny, I had a buddy do similar, so it went to the extreme with him.
“He should be doing the opposite of what he’s doing to get more value. And, if he isn’t sure which way to go, he would be better off shoving (that isn’t a great way to get max value, but I think it’s better than limping every time) to get those stragglers away, and assure he’s ahead going into the flop... I’d rather shove than limp and get outflopped by some mediocre hands.”
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@Lovejoyz i have another buddy who does that with aces. Bets huge because he doesn’t want to lose to them.. we always razz him about it, winning the minimum (blinds) with aces.
Has saved me tons of money, and an easy fold when he 3-bets me pre... again, it’s all about ranging his hand. He’s got aces. Easy fold.
Has saved me tons of money, and an easy fold when he 3-bets me pre... again, it’s all about ranging his hand. He’s got aces. Easy fold.
Very rarely on flop...may not have ever done it. But, I can get away when 4 to a flush or 4 to a straight are out there by the turn/river
Steve Birrer
Two Pair
The key is as others have stated. Its all how you bet preflop. Have at least a little understanding of your opponents range and how dangerous the flop is. Limping is so risky especially if you have a bunch of guys seeing the flop. Limping in position where most everybody has already folded reduces your risk. Limp in early position and you are likely to have 4 or more guys in the hand. Then what to do when the flop is all over the place. Too much risk somebody with total garbage hits. And sure IF they flop two pair or trips but an ace also comes you can win a bunch of chips. But for every time that happens there will be a lot more times when one of the donks hits and you lose.
even on a sort of connected board
Yep really hard and i wish i was better at it
Yep really hard and i wish i was better at it
I fold them when they are beaten.
And sometimes when they aren't.
And sometimes when they aren't.
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ilovegravy
Pair
I never fold AA. On any board texture. I love AA. I am married to AA. We live in a brownstone with 2.2 kids and a dog. AA is my life and I hope I die holding it.
Steve Birrer
Two Pair
Well I hope you don't die penniless holding onto AA......lol
ilovegravy
Pair
As long as I have AA, I will be rich with love.
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
Divorce can cost more
Steve Birrer
Two Pair
Tru dat. But holding onto AA enough times when you shouldn't might lead to divorce. What a double whammy that would be. LOL
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