Tourney How do you host a tournament home game? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ATLarchip
- Start date
K ALL IN 9
Flush
Yea my bad that's the one.
It's worth mentioning that using that many T500 chips is inefficient. Believe it or not, 3 in a stack is plenty. Think about it this way - if you want to bet 75, you NEED to use three T25 chips - there's no other way to do it. If you want to bet 400, using four T100's is the most efficient way to do it. So you need lots of those chips. And similarly, if you call a 600 bet with a T1,000, four T100s are needed to make change. But with T500's, there's no bet or change-making transaction that requires more than one T500. You'll never need to use more than one at a time, so you don't need a lot of them.
justsomedude
Straight Flush
I use the PokerTimer app by BirdSoft.
It's super simple, bare bones, no frills, with no "league management." It's just a basic app for customizing increasing blinds over time, and it works for me.
In the past I've run it on my iPad and plugged it directly into a large LCD screen for everyone to view. Now I run it on my old/spare iPhone, and stream it to the LCD with a cheapo screen-mirroring device (you could mirror from an iPad as well).
The wireless screen mirroring is great because it lets me remotely pause/stop/start the timer from my chair (during rebuys, rulings, etc.), without having to get up and manage a tethered iPad on the other side of the room.
Here's a photo of my setup. The LCD is being mirrored from the phone wirelessly. The cable in the phone is only for the connected charger, and has nothing to do with the display streaming. Sometimes I put the phone on a display stand on a shelf, so I can have a secondary blinds timer at the other end of the room.
TheOctagon
Two Pair
Consider the peripheral costs and concerns of a tournament as well. You're more than just keeping track of a card game, you're hosting what amounts to a non-trivial amount of people in your home for usually what ends up being 2x longer than any typical party or social gathering.
- Food: snacks that are accessible, ready to eat when people show up, are plentiful enough that they won't run out in an hour, and won't cause a giant mess if people want to snack at the table. I usually prepare something like a big sandwich board, pretzels, jerky, and mixed nuts. Nothing too sloppy, but enough to keep people fed and easy to duck out to grab during the action.
- ^^^ Corollary: horizontal surfaces that are NOT your poker table(s). Idiots always want to put their food and drinks on the table. Don't give them an excuse to do it. You need side surfaces.
- Drinks: people gotta be hydrated (sure). Most people are going to want to knock a few back. So, you decide if it's BYO or you provide the bar. I always turn my fridge into a beer drinker's heaven and I keep a full bar at all times, but that might not be within your budget. Be prepared and make it clear how it's going to go. You don't want donks dipping out and causing a massive energy killing beer run break because you don't have enough liquid courage on hand.
- ^^^ Corollary: cup holders and horizontal surfaces. I can't stress this enough. One table I have is a flimsy fold up clunker with those 1" deep "drink holders." They are strictly off limits except for wide tumbler glasses and even those I get a little uneasy about. People will put their tallnecks in there and then get excited when they squeeze KJo in BB and on their way to min raising the button they backhand their brew across the table. Prevent this by having proper deep cup holders or surfaces within easy reach of the table.
- Timing: if there's anything I don't tolerate in personal and professional life, it's inexcusable tardiness. I use the word "tardiness" because I learned it from my uptight third grade teacher and it stuck for life. Set the time that cards are dealt and make it clear if you're not seated, you're getting blinded out. If I have to start the game with 50% of the players, tough luck. We're playing. I'll always set the "start time" an hour earlier because people will be late. So, do the old "Cards at 5" trick and expect to start at 6 (the real start time).
- Buy-ins/payouts: Track it like the most anal CPA you've ever met. Spreadsheet: time-in, time-out, amount, track rebuys. If I'm hosting a higher-than-usual buy in tournament, I make people sign the damn thing when they buy and rebuy to verify their amount and note that they watched me put the cash into the pot and lock it up. During breaks count the pot and check against your spreadsheet. The #1 biggest mood killer in any game I've been in is when someone wants to cash out, or busts out with a bounty, and you're wondering where someone's 20 spot ended up you're going to have pain (did they venmo me? am I too drunk? is it this one in my pocket or is that MY rebuy??!). In my case, I'll throw in the extra dough and take the blame, but I've seen some people get nuts over $10 missing (it's usually under the chip case...) saying we're all crooked cheats and vowing never to play again. Totally avoidable. But, again, takes extra energy to manage this well.
- Waste Disposal: no, my coffee table is not a trash can. Nobody is bussing your plates or clearing your empties. That's why you need extra trash and recycling receptacles around the play area so you're not constantly cleaning up after your slob friends (trust me, we're all slobs to some degree at poker tables - I'm not pointing the finger here). Also, big tip, PAPER TOWELS IN EVERY CORNER. NO EXCEPTIONS. When dipshit I mentioned in bullet #4 inevitably paints your felt with Heineken you'll be happy you're not tripping over two tables of drunks in folding chairs to get to the kitchen and find the paper towel roll is down to the last scrap.
- Seating: You gotta literally put asses in chairs. Depending on your storage situation and current seating availability this can be challenging. If you go the mix-and-match route, consider that any seating that is noticeably higher than other seats can make for an uncomfortable situation for both the person seated in the higher chair (harder to look at hole cards) and others at a lower vantage point (feels like the person with higher eyes can see hole cards).
- Bystanders or Railbirds: Totally cool to have others hang out at the game. Totally not cool for them to interfere, look at peoples' cards, table talk, goad players in hands into betting or otherwise hamper the action. It's sort of an unspoken rule that if you want to come hang out you either 1) occupy yourself with others away from the action, usually in the kitchen or near the bar 2) be permanent dealer and/or DJ for a while (love this) or 3) wait until later in the game when people have busted out to hang around and BS while the rest of us wrap the tournament and figure out which bar we're blowing the winnings at.
- Your bathroom is doomed: Deal with it. Have enough TP to last you twice what you thought you'd need.
- Rules: you have to be clear on these before you confirm your participants. If you're using Robert's Rules, say so. If you have any house rules, say so. No surprises on game day. I keep a copy of Robert's Rules in plain view of the action. It reassures people that we're not in a free for all. I have limited house rules. Mostly they deal with cash games.
- Shuffle and Cut: Be clear on how this has to work. Honestly, I don't know how a room full of people who in real life are some of the most intelligent people I've ever known can't figure out my shuffle and cut scheme. I shuffle and cut behind. Pass the deck up to the next dealer. You do whatever you need to do to keep the game moving, but the action sure as hell can't stall because you have two unshuffled decks sitting there in a cycle. Make it clear as day and literally hand decks to the people in charge of shuffling and cutting. Use a cut card. At first it's going to be puzzling to new people, but then you can reassure them that dealing with an exposed bottom deck is a problem. They'll catch on.
And you're going to need a lot more than just five T1000 chips per player, since they become the workhorse chip in the later levels. 8/8/4/7 is a much better stack distribution than 8/8/8/5, and 12/12/5/6 (or 12/12/3/7) is even better. Eight chips of the lowest denominations per player is pretty much the bare minimum to avoid excessive change-making during play.
justsomedude
Straight Flush
Yup.
TheOctagon
Two Pair
One more, and this is not obvious to new players, but it can legitimately turn a simple dealer error into a borderline bench-clearing brawl:
Card Cappers: seriously advise your players to bring their favorite brickabrack to put on top of their cards while their hands are live. I have an assortment of random crap I'm willing to hand out to people for this purpose. Anecdotally, I watched a sloppy dealer muck a guy's hand in a cash PLO game where I was in against this guy for a hefty sum. We made an honest effort to retrieve his cards - in good faith, knowing the dealer blew it - and I wanted a fair hand, too. It was to no avail. He was dejected, but not violent. I guarantee if he were not the easy going guy he was, there'd have been some fisticuffs. For the sake of your friendships, reputation as a fair host, and just plain smart poker - make sure you encourage card cappers.
Card Cappers: seriously advise your players to bring their favorite brickabrack to put on top of their cards while their hands are live. I have an assortment of random crap I'm willing to hand out to people for this purpose. Anecdotally, I watched a sloppy dealer muck a guy's hand in a cash PLO game where I was in against this guy for a hefty sum. We made an honest effort to retrieve his cards - in good faith, knowing the dealer blew it - and I wanted a fair hand, too. It was to no avail. He was dejected, but not violent. I guarantee if he were not the easy going guy he was, there'd have been some fisticuffs. For the sake of your friendships, reputation as a fair host, and just plain smart poker - make sure you encourage card cappers.
RowdyRawhide
Full House
While this is all good advice and should be listened to in the future if things advance, the dude is just trying to put on a low buy in, one table tournament for the first time amongst friends...sounds like he as already hosted cash games. Ya gotta crawl before you walk. He's gonna have a good time, besides its not rocket science
TheOctagon
Two Pair
Yeahhhh, maybe I got carried away.
I'm just aggregating all those times I ran a single table tournament and learned a new "rule" along the way. Cash games don't always require the attention an tournament does. I went into my first tournament hosting session with a cash game mentality (with good friends, too) and I didn't account for most of what I listed, plus half of the structure stuff. We did have enough booze though.
I agree -- Fun is key here! If you're doing a friends-only event, then you can offload a lot of that onto them - have them BYO, pick up table snacks on their way, make sure they have proper change. It'll be a good time. But, don't screw up the card capper thing. You muck your buddy's nut hand before he's folded and it might turn ugly real quick
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
I use the Texas Holdem Poker Timer (free) app by R. Booth on the iPad when playing on the airplane. It's a little nicer than the BirdSoft one (which I also have installed).
For payouts, I use a little Excel magic to make payouts pretty decent, with flawless rounding capabilities, so I'm not paying out a bunch of singles or change. make sure your pay table is visible to all - there are nightmares about hosts that adjusted payouts based on how well they were doing. Don't be that guy.
For a home game, I typically like to pay out 25-30% of the field. Nobody is looking to get rich, so you don't need to go top-heavy, and pay only 1 or 2 guys in a 10 player event. The more winners, the more people are happy and likely to return.
I hosted my first tournament without ever playing live Holdem. It's not that hard, but I am used to hosting gaming events and gaming conventions, so teaching and managing is second nature to me. Of course, back then poker was all over the TV, and was available online, so I had that to draw from, as well as the now defunct HomePokerTourney website. Just know the rules. I can't stress that one enough... KNOW THE RULES.
Rebuys are a nice way to keep people in later. That, along with deep starting stacks (and slow blind increases) will assure everyone a few hours to play in the tournament.
RowdyRawhide
Full House
Heres how I have been running a K of C charity tourney for the last year. we allow rebuys and add ons till level 7. 15 min blind levels but I suggest that after level 12 you go down to 10 min blind levels. You should definitely bump up the payout to 30% of the field for a fun home game.
8 x T25
8 x T100
6 x T500
6 x T1000
1 x T5000
----------
29 chips = T15K
lvl sb bb
L1 25 50
L2 25 75
L3 50 100
L4 75 150
L5 100 200
L6 150 300
remove T25 chips
L7 200 400
L8 300 600
L9 400 800
L10 600 1200
L11 800 1600
L12 1200 2400
remove T100 chips
L13 1500 3000
L14 2000 4000
L15 3000 6000
L16 4000 8000
L17 5000 10000
L18 7500 15000
remove T500/T1000 chips
L19 10000 20000
L20 15000 30000
L21 20000 40000
L22 30000 60000
L23 40000 80000
L24 50000 100000
Using 15-minute blind levels, a 20-player 15K event (or 10-player 30K event) will typically finish in less than 4.5 hours (L18) plus breaks. Add 1.5 hours for 20-minute levels. A 10-player 10K event with 20-minute levels will typically finish in less than 5 hours (L15) plus breaks.
Payout structure
Using ratios (up to 21:15:10:6:3:1) to determine payouts, paid to the top 20-25% of the field size (rounded up):
field - paid - ratio - percentages paid
2-5, 1, - 100%
6-9, 2, (3:1), 75%/25%
10-13, 3, (6:3:1), 60%/30%/10%
14-22, 4, (10:6:3:1), 50%/30%/15%/5%
23-27, 5, (15:10:6:3:1), 43%/28.5%/17%/8.5%/3%
28-30, 6, (21:15:10:6:3:1), 37.5%/26.5%/18%/10.5%/5.5%/2%
Percentages are applied to the available prize pool, rounded to the nearest $5.
8 x T25
8 x T100
6 x T500
6 x T1000
1 x T5000
----------
29 chips = T15K
lvl sb bb
L1 25 50
L2 25 75
L3 50 100
L4 75 150
L5 100 200
L6 150 300
remove T25 chips
L7 200 400
L8 300 600
L9 400 800
L10 600 1200
L11 800 1600
L12 1200 2400
remove T100 chips
L13 1500 3000
L14 2000 4000
L15 3000 6000
L16 4000 8000
L17 5000 10000
L18 7500 15000
remove T500/T1000 chips
L19 10000 20000
L20 15000 30000
L21 20000 40000
L22 30000 60000
L23 40000 80000
L24 50000 100000
Using 15-minute blind levels, a 20-player 15K event (or 10-player 30K event) will typically finish in less than 4.5 hours (L18) plus breaks. Add 1.5 hours for 20-minute levels. A 10-player 10K event with 20-minute levels will typically finish in less than 5 hours (L15) plus breaks.
Payout structure
Using ratios (up to 21:15:10:6:3:1) to determine payouts, paid to the top 20-25% of the field size (rounded up):
field - paid - ratio - percentages paid
2-5, 1, - 100%
6-9, 2, (3:1), 75%/25%
10-13, 3, (6:3:1), 60%/30%/10%
14-22, 4, (10:6:3:1), 50%/30%/15%/5%
23-27, 5, (15:10:6:3:1), 43%/28.5%/17%/8.5%/3%
28-30, 6, (21:15:10:6:3:1), 37.5%/26.5%/18%/10.5%/5.5%/2%
Percentages are applied to the available prize pool, rounded to the nearest $5.
You've gotten a lot of good advice here. I'd definitely attend a BG tournament! He's got a lot of experience. Tournaments are different than cash games. The first tournament I ever played in a group of friends and I hosted (in 1983). None of us had ever played in a tournament before. We spent a ton of time organizing and preparing. We did the best we could, and it worked, but it seems very primitive compared to what we do today. So while I agree you have to start somewhere, a much better way to start is to go to a tournament hosted by someone who knows what they are doing.
There is more than one workable blind schedule. If your tournament is less than 3 hours, that's going to involve a lot more luck. Length alone doesn't make a tournament good, but a short tournament I don't even consider real poker, except that some prefer than format. It is poker, just not the kind of tournaments I like.
You can build a great tournament with anything from 100BB to 2500BB and be done in 4-6 hours with 20-30 people. The key is a good blind schedule and one can be developed. BG likes pretty consistent blind increases, and I do to. I think he hates doubling blinds, ever, but it doesn't bother me in the first round. But I've played in tournaments where the blind almost doubled every time. If it's consistent, and the stacks are big enough, that can be a good tournament. However, you have to start with over 1100BB for 20 players, and that's a lot.
This is one of those things you can't make everyone happy about. Some love very aggressive blinds while others don't. Some like short blind times (I consider less than 2 minutes per maximum players at a full table to be a short blind time), other like long ones. Ne'er the twain shall meet on this. I poll players to find out what they like, and then try to come up with something for everyone. Well, almost everyone.
Zombie made a good point about payouts. I use a chart. We have the same buy-in, or an even variable (like 2x). I built a chart to figure payouts from 3 to 30 players (the maximum I can host). Though I rarely put a chart at all tables, there is one at the final table, in plastic, and it doesn't get changed during a tournament. Anyone can see it at any time. It even shows calculates for re-buys. A chart isn't the only workable way to do it, but it works really well for us. I managed to get several players to share their payout places with me. I got structures from the 10%+1 payout, meaning 10% of the players, plus 1 player. So 2 payouts at 10, 3 at 20, 4 at 30, etc. Others payout from 20-40%. I found we were on the high end of the number of payouts, but I found some higher. Here's the thing -- what works for one group won't work for another. You will never make everyone happy on this issue.
Have written rules. We have about a 25 page rule book, and another 7 pages of player duties, procedures, and rights. You know what we don't have? Arguments over rules! Players who come don't think our rules are onerous. They are complete, an annotated with the source if it's a well-known set of rules like Robert's Rules, WSOP, or TDA. Yours don't have to be that long, but 1-2 pages can't do more than cover the highlights.
I've seen bitter rule arguments that have killed what was a good game instantly. Almost every player can support his argument with a written set of rules somewhere. We started with Hoyle's. I forgot to bring my rule book one night, and stopped by a book store to pick up another copy. LOL -- the rules were different! I then starting looking at various Hoyle's rule books and found no two alike. Fortunately, nothing came up that hurt that game, but we did realize the need to write our own rules. For that group, if you wanted a laugh, you said "according to Hoyle's!"
There are two common things that destroy poker games in my experience. One is arguments over rules and the other is not recruiting new players because at some point, one or more players will leave because of life. No replacements means no more games. If your game isn't growing, it's dying. So my rule is ABR -- Always Be Recruiting! This is not so much a rule as a law -- you can't really repeal it; it just is.
Hopefully some of this helps.
There is more than one workable blind schedule. If your tournament is less than 3 hours, that's going to involve a lot more luck. Length alone doesn't make a tournament good, but a short tournament I don't even consider real poker, except that some prefer than format. It is poker, just not the kind of tournaments I like.
You can build a great tournament with anything from 100BB to 2500BB and be done in 4-6 hours with 20-30 people. The key is a good blind schedule and one can be developed. BG likes pretty consistent blind increases, and I do to. I think he hates doubling blinds, ever, but it doesn't bother me in the first round. But I've played in tournaments where the blind almost doubled every time. If it's consistent, and the stacks are big enough, that can be a good tournament. However, you have to start with over 1100BB for 20 players, and that's a lot.
This is one of those things you can't make everyone happy about. Some love very aggressive blinds while others don't. Some like short blind times (I consider less than 2 minutes per maximum players at a full table to be a short blind time), other like long ones. Ne'er the twain shall meet on this. I poll players to find out what they like, and then try to come up with something for everyone. Well, almost everyone.
Zombie made a good point about payouts. I use a chart. We have the same buy-in, or an even variable (like 2x). I built a chart to figure payouts from 3 to 30 players (the maximum I can host). Though I rarely put a chart at all tables, there is one at the final table, in plastic, and it doesn't get changed during a tournament. Anyone can see it at any time. It even shows calculates for re-buys. A chart isn't the only workable way to do it, but it works really well for us. I managed to get several players to share their payout places with me. I got structures from the 10%+1 payout, meaning 10% of the players, plus 1 player. So 2 payouts at 10, 3 at 20, 4 at 30, etc. Others payout from 20-40%. I found we were on the high end of the number of payouts, but I found some higher. Here's the thing -- what works for one group won't work for another. You will never make everyone happy on this issue.
Have written rules. We have about a 25 page rule book, and another 7 pages of player duties, procedures, and rights. You know what we don't have? Arguments over rules! Players who come don't think our rules are onerous. They are complete, an annotated with the source if it's a well-known set of rules like Robert's Rules, WSOP, or TDA. Yours don't have to be that long, but 1-2 pages can't do more than cover the highlights.
I've seen bitter rule arguments that have killed what was a good game instantly. Almost every player can support his argument with a written set of rules somewhere. We started with Hoyle's. I forgot to bring my rule book one night, and stopped by a book store to pick up another copy. LOL -- the rules were different! I then starting looking at various Hoyle's rule books and found no two alike. Fortunately, nothing came up that hurt that game, but we did realize the need to write our own rules. For that group, if you wanted a laugh, you said "according to Hoyle's!"
There are two common things that destroy poker games in my experience. One is arguments over rules and the other is not recruiting new players because at some point, one or more players will leave because of life. No replacements means no more games. If your game isn't growing, it's dying. So my rule is ABR -- Always Be Recruiting! This is not so much a rule as a law -- you can't really repeal it; it just is.
Hopefully some of this helps.
andy699669
3 of a Kind
And how do we know exactly the slave chips in any particular tournament?
Sorry, I don't understand your question. Wtf is a "slave chip"?
Right?
I’ll assume by slave chip, he means workhorse chip. How do you know which will be workhorse chips? Mostly by playing the format. But in a tournament, pretty much all the chips will have a turn at being the workhorse chip, except the lowest chip, the T500, and maybe the highest chip. You can figure it out by playing out any given blind level in your head - how would the betting typically go at that level, and which chip would be used most?
I’ll assume by slave chip, he means workhorse chip. How do you know which will be workhorse chips? Mostly by playing the format. But in a tournament, pretty much all the chips will have a turn at being the workhorse chip, except the lowest chip, the T500, and maybe the highest chip. You can figure it out by playing out any given blind level in your head - how would the betting typically go at that level, and which chip would be used most?
TheOctagon
Two Pair
Also, if you have a favorite chip you can sort of structure the blinds around keeping the most of those in play at a time, but that's a whole other level of sickness.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
Also, if you have a favorite chip you can sort of structure the blinds around keeping the most of those in play at a time, but that's a whole other level of sickness.
TheOctagon
Two Pair
What I mean is adjust your starting stacks (and thus your blind amounts) so your favorite chip becomes your workhorse. I don’t recommend slowing the game down with disproportionately small blind levels.
No 3-Putts
High Hand
Most importantly....Get a hot dog roller!
TheOctagon
Two Pair
I've read this so many times over the past two days I'm starting to think a few of you have stock in hotdog roller businesses.
Not that hot dog rollers are a bad idea. I just have too many unitaskers jammed into my NYC apartment to the point of absurdity. I usually opt for slow cooker meals or a combo of slow cooker and sandwich boards for tournaments.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
Pros of hot dog roller
- Food is readily available. During cash games, people can get one whenever, and miss 1 hand at most. Less if playing circus games.
- Hot Dogs are clean eating, provided players are conservative in their condiment usage. Even a plate is unnecessary.
- Hot Dogs are mainstream. Most people find them to be "OK". Very few people hate them. They are the vanilla of the meat world.
- Can also be used for Brats, corn dogs, or reheating fried pickles.
- Big as f*^#. It will take some considerable space for storage.
- In tournament play, it will get emptied on break. Someone peeing first may get a raw hot dog after it was reloaded, thinking it has been warming for the last hour.
- That one guy that thinks all hot dogs should be Chicago style, and piled 6" high, or thinks hot dogs are a vessel for ketchup and mustard transport. If he has mustard on his shirt, your table isn't far behind.
- Hot Dogs are mainstream. Most people find them to be "OK". Very few people love them. They are the vanilla of the meat world.
- I was making up the part about fried pickles.
TheOctagon
Two Pair
I nearly thought you tried to argue that hotdogs were somehow part of a modern food fad Keto/Paleo/"Clean"/carb-free/no-gluten kind of diet.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
I nearly thought you tried to argue that hotdogs were somehow part of a modern food fad Keto/Paleo/"Clean"/carb-free/no-gluten kind of diet.
I originally typed Hot Dogs are clean, but that felt wrong on all levels.
I'm so angry that you implied that hot dogs are "OK."
I'm pretty sure there are two kinds of people in the world - people who forget just how much they really love hot dogs until they have one, and vegetarians.
This is a fact.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
I'm pretty sure the first step to becoming a vegetarian is knowing what is in a hot dog. I'm not talking about lips and rectums either. From 2007 - 2009, the USDA received complaints on the following items found in hot dogs...
- glass
- Clumps of worms
- maggots
- bone fragments
- hard plastic
- metal
- rodent leg
- a whole band-aid
- an insect presumed to be a dragonfly
- semen
- mouse feces
- slug
I know what I'm having for lunch.
Mr Tree
Straight Flush
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