How Do You Handle Private Game Massive Change In Stakes From What You Were Told? (2 Viewers)

[HaRDHouSeiNC]

The other night I was invited to a private Big O game. Now, I'm an entertaining and friendly person at the tables, but I'm not really known as an action player, so I don't tend to get invites to private games. I was told it was a 1/2 Big O game with a $5 bring-in and ONE optional $10 straddle. However when I arrived, the host decided he was bored of 1/2/5 and made the game a 5/5 with a $10 optional straddle.

Then it wasn't long before he decided you could also restraddle to $20 or make an initial straddle from between $10-25. Then an action player arrived and got a seat and now it changes again and he and the host are regularly making straddles of 25/50

And the host kept trying to pressure me to straddle or restraddle. It was pretty uncomfortable because the action was good and I don't want to not get invited to games, but at the same time I really dislike being told it's a 1/2/5 game with an optional straddle and the next thing I know it's straddling to 25/50 and I'm being pressured as well since I'm not rolled for 25/50

How do you guys handle shit like this?

Tell him his dice chips suck and aren’t worthy for these stakes. Cash me out bitches!!!

Lol I’m all honestly I like the idea leaving saying you’re game next week will be 1/2 or max 2/5 no trying to squeeze the tight small stacks

 

[LowerBama1714]

Sooooo…were the chips nice?

I’m not even comfortable playing 5c/5c with crappy chips…

 

[Anthony Martino]

He had legit Paulsons so the chips were indeed nice

But yeah, playing 25/50 with most players having 10-20 bigs is just stupid.

 

[Gunnar]

So what did you end up doing and how did it go?

I personally would have objected and left, I don´t like cashgames with less than 100bb let alone 10-20bb...

 

[Anthony Martino]

So what did you end up doing and how did it go?

I personally would have objected and left, I don´t like cashgames with less than 100bb let alone 10-20bb...

I tried to stick it out cause the game was good. But if I see another J9976 or 98665 in Big O in my lifetime it'll be too soon

And if I did get a playable hand like A259J the flop was 259

So I wound up losing $1,700 and called it a night

Next time I'll just tell him I'm not rolled for 25/50 and don't really want to play 20bb poker

 

[Gunnar]

I tried to stick it out cause the game was good. But if I see another J9976 or 98665 in Big O in my lifetime it'll be too soon

And if I did get a playable hand like A259J the flop was 259

So I wound up losing $1,700 and called it a night

Next time I'll just tell him I'm not rolled for 25/50 and don't really want to play 20bb poker

To be honest, bankroll is a very big factor in CG and sometimes even a bigger factor than skill, endless rebuy power is easy to abuse and hard to fight against, this is why I really like max number of buy-ins for a friendly game and match up to half the big stack not match the big stack. In the long run it is really hard to gain profit in games where you don´t have the same firepower as some of the other players as they can afford to make wrong decisions where you can´t.

 

[Frogzilla]

The host was new to me, I had met him playing in a poker club nearby, and he lives in my city. But I did know a number of people in the game that I play with regularly in the poker rooms around town as well

I didn't get the feeling it was a setup or rigged or anything. Just the host owns a million dollar home and only gets his action junkie rocks off playing for much larger stakes it seems. And that's all well and good, if you tell me that upfront. But when you tell me 1/2/5 with an optional $10 straddle, and then suddenly the game is straddling to 25/50 and you're pressuring me to start straddling to that amount, it kinda pissed me off

I don't want to play fucking preflop bingo with the deep pocketed guys, I can't beat deep pockets long-term playing that game. They can 30/70 you all night until you go broke

If stakes were misrepresented it honestly sounds like a great opportunity for short-stacking em. Normal buy-in for stakes you thought, but way short for the real stakes. That’s one of the money printing spots you posted about, where you get it in early getting 4-1, and the bigger stacks battle out on the flop, and with nature of big-o every fold does improve your equity

 

[Anthony Martino]

If stakes were misrepresented it honestly sounds like a great opportunity for short-stacking em. Normal buy-in for stakes you thought, but way short for the real stakes. That’s one of the money printing spots you posted about, where you get it in early getting 4-1, and the bigger stacks battle out on the flop, and with nature of big-o every fold does improve your equity

Most of the stacks were short when you are playing with straddles of 25/50 though

The host and the maniac asian were the biggest stacks between 3-5k. There were a few 2k stacks and others were 500-1k

So everyone under 100bb. And the asian kid would juice a lot of pots pre with raises between 100-150

He was up against the host at one point but gave it all back and wound up busting on the same hand I did and we both left at the same time

Also, we were originally doing double board bomb pots every rotation, ultimate high, ultimate low

Then the host decided each person could pick what bomb pots we played (one nitwit chose crazy pineapple and was almost tarred and feathered)

Then the host was trying to switch the game to have a round of 5 card PLO high, but one of the other players spoke up and said he didn't want to so that was nixxed

It was just a weird spot for me cause I'm brand new to the game so wasn't familiar with the dynamics, but did feel baited and switched

I'm positively tired of all these damned texans wanting to play all-in preflop bingo with 5-20bb stacks lol

 

[Gunnar]

If stakes were misrepresented it honestly sounds like a great opportunity for short-stacking em. Normal buy-in for stakes you thought, but way short for the real stakes. That’s one of the money printing spots you posted about, where you get it in early getting 4-1, and the bigger stacks battle out on the flop, and with nature of big-o every fold does improve your equity

The thing is here that even if we get it in correctly a few times and multiply our buy-in we are never out of the "dangerzone" as a deep pocketed player can call us when behind over and over again until he lucks it and we are out and have to rebuy. Some might see it as a chance for money printing but I see it as unfair gaming as you are always behind in firepower and that usually catches up with you in the end...

 

[Anthony Martino]

The thing is here that even if we get it in correctly a few times and multiply our buy-in we are never out of the "dangerzone" as a deep pocketed player can call us when behind over and over again until he lucks it and we are out and have to rebuy. Some might see it as a chance for money printing but I see it as unfair gaming as you are always behind in firepower and that usually catches up with you in the end...

Yeah, where they permit match the stack the deep pocketed guys can just 30/70 you all night until you're broke

This has been my issue with The Lodge as well, they don't protect the entry level games

The 1/2/5 PLO is 200-1k but with match the stack I've seen guys sitting 20-30k deep before, restraddling to 320, etc

 

[Gunnar]

Yeah, where they permit match the stack the deep pocketed guys can just 30/70 you all night until you're broke

This has been my issue with The Lodge as well, they don't protect the entry level games

The 1/2/5 PLO is 200-1k but with match the stack I've seen guys sitting 20-30k deep before, restraddling to 320, etc

Then there are only two options
- Have strength to don´t enter / leave when games are like this
- Sell action so you can hunt the bigger fishes

 

[quintooo]

I feel like I have a similar problem with my games...

I host 0.25/0.50, $40 min, $200 max. Match the stack after ~3 hours of play. That is what I advertise. I'll tell new/prospective players that the game plays closer to 1/2.

However, due match the stack, depending on what players show up on game night, my game can also play like 2/5. We often have straddle-happy players; 0.25/0.50/1/2/4/8/etc a lot of the times. Straddles are optional.

I've had some players tell me that the game plays a little bigger than they thought. I don't want to falsely advertise how my game plays, but there is a decently large variation in how each night plays from game to game.

How would you guys like this type of game advertised? Should the words "match the stack" be enough to let the invite list know the game can possibly play really big?

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

How would you guys like this type of game advertised? Should the words "match the stack" be enough to let the invite list know the game can possibly play really big?

Lot of casual people don't really know what match the stack means, my players wouldn't think about the implications. Honestly would advertise this game as wild to any potential players. Definitely not wild compared to some on here or other "real" games, but for someone who pictured the bets being in the fracs or single digits to all of a sudden be paying $8 blind? Would feel crazy.


Not saying you're lying by omission or anything, I would just make sure to tell them what you told us as a warning. To some this will be good news, to others a welcome warning.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I feel like I have a similar problem with my games...

I host 0.25/0.50, $40 min, $200 max. Match the stack after ~3 hours of play. That is what I advertise. I'll tell new/prospective players that the game plays closer to 1/2.

However, due match the stack, depending on what players show up on game night, my game can also play like 2/5. We often have straddle-happy players; 0.25/0.50/1/2/4/8/etc a lot of the times. Straddles are optional.

I've had some players tell me that the game plays a little bigger than they thought. I don't want to falsely advertise how my game plays, but there is a decently large variation in how each night plays from game to game.

How would you guys like this type of game advertised? Should the words "match the stack" be enough to let the invite list know the game can possibly play really big?

I don’t think just not inviting me will fix your problem either...

Just run 2 tables with different stakes and max buys. $100 for table 1 and $1000 for table 2.

 

[quintooo]

Just run 2 tables with different stakes and max buys. $100 for table 1 and $1000 for table 2.

This is a good idea, but I don't think I have enough players willing to play a $100 max table if there's a $1000 max table going on xD

gonna test this out though at my next game, just to see if it'll work

 

[upNdown]

I feel like I have a similar problem with my games...

I host 0.25/0.50, $40 min, $200 max. Match the stack after ~3 hours of play. That is what I advertise. I'll tell new/prospective players that the game plays closer to 1/2.

However, due match the stack, depending on what players show up on game night, my game can also play like 2/5. We often have straddle-happy players; 0.25/0.50/1/2/4/8/etc a lot of the times. Straddles are optional.

I've had some players tell me that the game plays a little bigger than they thought. I don't want to falsely advertise how my game plays, but there is a decently large variation in how each night plays from game to game.

How would you guys like this type of game advertised? Should the words "match the stack" be enough to let the invite list know the game can possibly play really big?

If you told me I could buy in initially for 400 bigs and match the stack later, I'd have a pretty good idea what to expect.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

This is a good idea, but I don't think I have enough players willing to play a $100 max table if there's a $1000 max table going on xD

gonna test this out though at my next game, just to see if it'll work

Most of your players to my eye felt like $100-200 max buy players. Even those who could play higher seem like they would have been happy capped at $200. I would have been fine at $200 but you let me rebuy for a more comfortable number. You had 2 other players besides me who kept rebuying for $800-1000 multiple times. The way you run your bank facilitates this tremendously for better and worse. The fact that one of the players chased all the way back to a win from -3000 or whatever he was is only going to encourage that kind of behavior again. To the OP’s original point I think to communicate what the average stack size is by the middle of the night or total bank in play is more indicative than the blinds or “match the stack.” The fact that you (Quintooo) ran out of Tiger hundos and had to use multiple FLV $500s paints a clearer picture of the action that night that the blinds or max buys would suggest.

 

[quintooo]

Most of your players to my eye felt like $100-200 max buy players. Even those who could play higher seem like they would have been happy capped at $200. I would have been fine at $200 but you let me rebuy for a more comfortable number. You had 2 other players besides me who kept rebuying for $800-1000 multiple times. The way you run your bank facilitates this tremendously for better and worse. The fact that one of the players chased all the way back to a win from -3000 or whatever he was is only going to encourage that kind of behavior again. To the OP’s original point I think to communicate what the average stack size is by the middle of the night or total bank in play is more indicative than the blinds or “match the stack.” The fact that you (Quintooo) ran out of Tiger hundos and had to use multiple FLV $500s paints a clearer picture of the action that night that the blinds or max buys would suggest.

that night was a strange night forsure. The 3 biggest losers were down ~$1000, which is how I'm sure the -3000 guy got back to even.

Typically our largest total buy-in from night to night is $1000-$1500. I would say average loss is $400-700, with big loser being down $800-1000. Players usually build up a stack from $200. If they run it up to $1k or something and bust, they'll only rebuy for $200-300. Some players tilt a little more and will rebuy for max/more (probably the players you're referring to). There were some stragglers that night that usually play smaller, the college kid and my roommate who typically play smaller stakes (0.05/0.10 up to an actual 0.25/0.50 game).

From my invite list, I would say a good portion of the "regs" prefer the deeper/match the stack-type of games...

And you're right on how I run the bank facilitating deep buy-ins. I'm considering just keeping a bunch of cash on hand to sell to my players that way I can have an actual bank going on. These zoomer kids just hate cash for some reason.

I'll experiment with 2 tables to see what my regs think. I'm also considering instead of match the stack after ~3 hours, make it $500 max after ~3 hours. We'll see... next game is coming soon-ish.

 

[LeLe]

I'll experiment with 2 tables to see what my regs think. I'm also considering instead of match the stack after ~3 hours, make it $500 max after ~3 hours. We'll see... next game is coming soon-ish.

I read it somewhere about 200bb estimates from the max buyin, so $500 max buy are going to play between $1/$2 to $2/$3

 

[pltrgyst]

Yes, things like "match the stack" can cost you players, That's one reason why my home games had a "no straddles" rule.

 

[Hornet]

What kind of private home game invites nitty pros? The only kind I know of is where the host takes a cut of the pro’s profits. Talk to the host about staking you for a cut.

 

[bergs]

To be honest, bankroll is a very big factor in CG and sometimes even a bigger factor than skill, endless rebuy power is easy to abuse and hard to fight against, this is why I really like max number of buy-ins for a friendly game and match up to half the big stack not match the big stack. In the long run it is really hard to gain profit in games where you don´t have the same firepower as some of the other players as they can afford to make wrong decisions where you can´t.

I would never play in a cash game where the number of buyins is capped. This sounds like an awful rock garden game.

 

[Anthony Martino]

What kind of private home game invites nitty pros? The only kind I know of is where the host takes a cut of the pro’s profits. Talk to the host about staking you for a cut.

He just met me recently at a club I hadn't played at before so he wasn't aware I was a nitty vlogging pro lol

 

[JMC9389]

I would never play in a cash game where the number of buyins is capped. This sounds like an awful rock garden game.

I don't mind it if it's among friends and you can get some good trash talk out of stacking someone so much that they can no longer buy back in.

Otherwise, yeah, I agree.

 

[Senzrock]

This is an annoying spot, specifically as a pro trying to work the broader poker ecosystem where, eventually, if you were to play your cards right (pun intended), you could transition to these higher stakes private games for a good deal of your playing. It’s a real opportunity, and one you don’t want to squander by coming off the wrong way (even if everyone agrees, as I do that it’s totally within your right to walk away from this specific game.

What I would probably do is politely let the host know that you didn’t bring as much cash as you would have liked to for these particular stakes but you would love to be in touch for future games when you could be a bit more prepared.

 

[Eriks]

I feel like I have a similar problem with my games...

I host 0.25/0.50, $40 min, $200 max. Match the stack after ~3 hours of play. That is what I advertise. I'll tell new/prospective players that the game plays closer to 1/2.

However, due match the stack, depending on what players show up on game night, my game can also play like 2/5. We often have straddle-happy players; 0.25/0.50/1/2/4/8/etc a lot of the times. Straddles are optional.

I've had some players tell me that the game plays a little bigger than they thought. I don't want to falsely advertise how my game plays, but there is a decently large variation in how each night plays from game to game.

How would you guys like this type of game advertised? Should the words "match the stack" be enough to let the invite list know the game can possibly play really big?

”Match the stack and unlimited straddles” should be plenty to get a good idea where it can go.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

However, due match the stack, depending on what players show up on game night, my game can also play like 2/5. We often have straddle-happy players; 0.25/0.50/1/2/4/8/etc a lot of the times.

Or you could just say how many crazy Asians there will be. Sounds like 2 at @Anthony Martino ’s game.

 

[DoubleEagle]

IMO, the host should not ever change the stakes without agreement from all the players.

 

[JMC9389]

IMO, the host should not ever change the stakes without agreement from all the players.

Agree. Even if one disagrees, it stays the same.

 

[upNdown]

IMO, the host should not ever change the stakes without agreement from all the players.

Frankly I don’t even like a host doing it with agreement from the players. That can create uncomfortable situations where somebody might feel pressured to agree or some annoyed players when somebody doesn’t agree.
I understand some cash games do typically raise the stakes at some point in the night. That’s not my thing, and I’d like to know in advance if that kind of thing is coming.