Cash Game Home Game Rake (1 Viewer)

[Machine]

what?

 

[Talrem]

I've played a 5/5 home game before where the host raked 25% up to $25 (LA)... Needless to say, I folded for an hour and left because that is just not worth it. Host had 3 tables going on as well, he must've been making a killing...

I wonder what would happen to the poker world if rake was just made legal.

That said, if you need money to cover your operating costs, just ask your players to chip in. If you want to make a profit, this probably isn't the place to ask, as I think most people here don't rake their games.

I had the same thought! Instead of raking, have people contribute. If you’re with buddies or host a group of regular players, asking for a contribution upon arrival (e.g. a member’s fee, an entry fee at the door, or just friends chipping in!) is reasonable. If someone regularly hosted amazing games with food, drinks, decent furniture, and other amenities to make the night positive and fun, I’d gladly pay a member’s fee/cover charge at the door to keep it going!

 

[WRGBET]

Thanks for the comments. Found the insights very helpful.

 

[grebe]

I had the same thought! Instead of raking, have people contribute. If you’re with buddies or host a group of regular players, asking for a contribution upon arrival (e.g. a member’s fee, an entry fee at the door, or just friends chipping in!) is reasonable. If someone regularly hosted amazing games with food, drinks, decent furniture, and other amenities to make the night positive and fun, I’d gladly pay a member’s fee/cover charge at the door to keep it going!

Here in VA, that's the same as a rake. Not sure about NY.

I personally have played in raked games...only a couple though, and on the smaller side. If I were to play in a game as big as 5/5, I would expect a level of security along with a good dealer. I do not have any moral issues with them, but the HUGE problem I see is with quality control. How do I know I am not a target of some cheating scam? How do I know it's not set up to be robbed? How do I know there isn't some other illegal stuff going on...like it's a crystal meth lab during the day? Same reason I dont drink moonshine. If you can't work a toothbrush, I am not drinking something you made.

As far as if you were to just make poker legal....I think the open market would probably wash out most of the underground games pretty quick...save some that are offering their clients something else. Think about the Washington state market...where you have a small card room in the back of a convenience store, then a nicer card room in a shopping mall. I think that's what a straight up open market would look like. If that were the case, I would never play in a raked game at someone's house with no security.


To the OP, 25% sounds like A TON to me...but what do I know? I am lucky to be able to play rake free for the most part.

 

[LeLe]

100%. They seized all the money.

That is a under statement they take All the money and Fine u too so >100% rake

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

That is a under statement they take All the money and Fine u too so >100% rake

Only the guy running the game and the people working the game were arrested and charged.

In Kentucky it is not illegal to play in an illegal game; just to operate or work the game.

 

[Machine]

In Kentucky it is not illegal to play in an illegal game; just to operate or work the game.

That is some BULLSHIT illogical hillbilly nonsense right there. If I ride in the getaway car I'm not responsible for the murder / crimes committed? That is some Kentucky shit right there. Lets not even talk about that Hippy state with all the buckeyes.

I wouldn't go or be in one of those games at all. I'd have every player get chips for other players and give them $10 after they cashed out for services rendered, likely in check form.

 

[Goldfish]

Raking a game means one thing and one thing only….. that the host is guaranteeing that players get paid at the end of the night. Providing a nice set up, amenities and food is a must to make players comfortable, but it means nothing if the players don’t get paid at the end of the night. With 5/5 and bigger games there is going to be credit given, especially to the action players (the engines of the game). It is unavoidable. The host is simply the bank, making sure winners get paid up front and dealing with the slow pay/no pay behind the scenes. The rake simply compensates the host for the risk, which is real. The raked games that don’t pay the players at the end of the night don’t last very long even if the set up is awesome. I have seen plenty of games die quickly for this reason. I have also seen hosts get into some tricky spots because they do not have the financial resources to cover the game. If you are gonna rake a big boy game, you better be financially prepared. Just sayin.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

Bart Hanson was talking about this the other day. While not exactly related to the OP specifically, longg story short, don't play raked home games if you are a for profit player unless you can get some sort of deal. And $15 cap can actually be slightly better than the current $8 drop in LA.

That was one of the best pieces I’ve seen Hanson put up.

 

[mattross1313]

25% of the rake from the third session goes to the biggest loosing player.

I don't play in raked games, just low stakes home games so can't really say much either way on this. So this is more of a question to those who have been to games where rake returned to the loosing players.

Is this just the biggest loosing player, or all loosing players?
If 2 (or more) players have some run-bad at the tables, for example loosing $800....but Dave-the-Fish looses $900. I would be pretty annoyed if Dave gets a kick back, and I'm sat there $800 lighter.

 

[horseshoez]

I’ve heard of a couple games raided simply due to the authorities hearing about it being raked. In both examples that I heard about, authorities knew the game was going on but only kept it on their radar because they weren’t being raked. Once rake was introduced, the door came down and law stepped in.

 

[grebe]

Raking a game means one thing and one thing only….. that the host is guaranteeing that players get paid at the end of the night. Providing a nice set up, amenities and food is a must to make players comfortable, but it means nothing if the players don’t get paid at the end of the night. With 5/5 and bigger games there is going to be credit given, especially to the action players (the engines of the game). It is unavoidable. The host is simply the bank, making sure winners get paid up front and dealing with the slow pay/no pay behind the scenes. The rake simply compensates the host for the risk, which is real. The raked games that don’t pay the players at the end of the night don’t last very long even if the set up is awesome. I have seen plenty of games die quickly for this reason. I have also seen hosts get into some tricky spots because they do not have the financial resources to cover the game. If you are gonna rake a big boy game, you better be financially prepared. Just sayin.

I would take anything the Goldfish says as hard fact when it comes to running larger home games. He walks the walk. Luckily, I am broke enough to not have to worry my little head about things that happen at "nosebleed" stakes in home games.

Anything that I have said can be ignored if Goldfish contradicts...as I barely know enough to be dangerous.

 

[CrazyEddie]

Raking a game means one thing and one thing only….. that the host is guaranteeing that players get paid at the end of the night. Providing a nice set up, amenities and food is a must to make players comfortable, but it means nothing if the players don’t get paid at the end of the night. With 5/5 and bigger games there is going to be credit given, especially to the action players (the engines of the game). It is unavoidable. The host is simply the bank, making sure winners get paid up front and dealing with the slow pay/no pay behind the scenes. The rake simply compensates the host for the risk, which is real. The raked games that don’t pay the players at the end of the night don’t last very long even if the set up is awesome. I have seen plenty of games die quickly for this reason. I have also seen hosts get into some tricky spots because they do not have the financial resources to cover the game. If you are gonna rake a big boy game, you better be financially prepared. Just sayin.

This is fascinating and I appreciate the perspective from experience.

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

That is some BULLSHIT illogical hillbilly nonsense right there. If I ride in the getaway car I'm not responsible for the murder / crimes committed? That is some Kentucky shit right there. Lets not even talk about that Hippy state with all the buckeyes.

I wouldn't go or be in one of those games at all. I'd have every player get chips for other players and give them $10 after they cashed out for services rendered, likely in check form.

Ok. But there is a huge difference between felony murder and a misdemeanor.

 

[Talrem]

I don't play in raked games, just low stakes home games so can't really say much either way on this. So this is more of a question to those who have been to games where rake returned to the loosing players.

Is this just the biggest loosing player, or all loosing players?
If 2 (or more) players have some run-bad at the tables, for example loosing $800....but Dave-the-Fish looses $900. I would be pretty annoyed if Dave gets a kick back, and I'm sat there $800 lighter.

Then there should be a ”bad beat” pot that the rake funds. The person with a legitimate bad-beat loss should get that money, not all the donk fish out there who pray to the poker gods for a lucky flop for the rags they called with.
You can set a tier for the bad beat too so multiple losers can get something back - the top 3 bad-beat losers get an equal share, or from worst to bad a 50, 30, 20% payout.

 

[Machine]

Ok. But there is a huge difference between felony murder and a misdemeanor.

You are construing a straw man argument. To be more explicit, I'm not suggesting murder and running a poker game are equivocal.

The logic carries if you abet in a crime you share the consciences, I'm saying running a game and participating in a crime should indict all parties, and consciences in the same ball park.

They charge John's as well as the Lady of the night, they charge the drug users as well as the dealer... this is doesn't follow that they wouldn't charge the participants.

 

[Goldfish]

This is fascinating and I appreciate the perspective from experience.

I could talk about this topic for hours. I have seen everything in my 25 plus years of playing poker. I don’t host often anymore, but when I do, I don’t rake. i don’t need the game to be a profit center, and I do not want to guarantee the game. The foremost problem for a host raking a game is controlling their action players. if u r new to the hosting game, u r probably reading this thinking you will just avoid the stated problems by requiring everyone to pay cash up front. That does not work and leads to 2 problems. First, any big action player with a substantial net worth will not bring significant cash to a game. As the host u want that person to play up to his net worth, not with what he/she has in the pocket on a given night. Also, the action players that don’t have a significant bank rolls will be riding that financial edge of the cliff, u will want them to continue playing as the assure you that they will have the money tomorrow. Hence the need for credit. U will have to manage that on the back end, and believe me the numbers can get big real quick. action players are critical to a good/successful decent stakes game. They always draw a crowd So u need them. That’s how most hosts get in trouble - they don’t have the financial resources to back the game. Second, is security. With a lot of cash floating around there is the potential for trouble. Electronic transfers are better but carry its own problems. if your goal is to make money from running a game, you will need to think long and hard about things like this (setting aside the legal implications). I have only seen a few hosts make money long term - (1) the guys that run small games where nobody gets hurt too bad on a given night, and (2) the big operations with security guards, multiple doors with electronic locks, etc. personally, I would just avoid hosting a raked game altogether. let That be someone else’s problem. Or just host a non raked game (u will see u will draw a better group of action players).

and if the above does not dissuade you from hosting, read my post on “poker players are squirrels“. That should make u run away screaming.

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

You are construing a straw man argument. To be more explicit, I'm not suggesting murder and running a poker game are equivocal.

The logic carries if you abet in a crime you share the consciences, I'm saying running a game and participating in a crime should indict all parties, and consciences in the same ball park.

They charge John's as well as the Lady of the night, they charge the drug users as well as the dealer... this is doesn't follow that they wouldn't charge the participants.

Well, solicitation is a crime as is possession of many drugs. So the dealer and user are charged under separate statutes and so are the prostitutes and johns.

In Kentucky, the statute as written specifically says that playing in the game is not a crime. So law enforcement has nothing to charge the players with if they are merely players in the game.

In the game I was in that was raided, the officers checked the ID of every single player and ran the name for any warrants. Not one of the approximately 50 players had any outstanding warrants so they eventually let us all go home. I’m sorry it upsets you that they didn’t arrest and charge all the players.

It’s Kentucky Revised Statute chapter 528 if you’re interested.

 

[Machine]

It’s Kentucky Revised Statute chapter 528 if you’re interested.

Not really, I believe you, I just think its injustice and insidious. It incentivizes ppl that are pissed about losing to blow up the game.

In the game I was in that was raided, the officers checked the ID of every single player and ran the name for any warrants.

If they were not committing a crime, they had no probable cause and they should not have ID anyone.

 

[WRGBET]

I could talk about this topic for hours. I have seen everything in my 25 plus years of playing poker. I don’t host often anymore, but when I do, I don’t rake. i don’t need the game to be a profit center, and I do not want to guarantee the game. The foremost problem for a host raking a game is controlling their action players. if u r new to the hosting game, u r probably reading this thinking you will just avoid the stated problems by requiring everyone to pay cash up front. That does not work and leads to 2 problems. First, any big action player with a substantial net worth will not bring significant cash to a game. As the host u want that person to play up to his net worth, not with what he/she has in the pocket on a given night. Also, the action players that don’t have a significant bank rolls will be riding that financial edge of the cliff, u will want them to continue playing as the assure you that they will have the money tomorrow. Hence the need for credit. U will have to manage that on the back end, and believe me the numbers can get big real quick. action players are critical to a good/successful decent stakes game. They always draw a crowd So u need them. That’s how most hosts get in trouble - they don’t have the financial resources to back the game. Second, is security. With a lot of cash floating around there is the potential for trouble. Electronic transfers are better but carry its own problems. if your goal is to make money from running a game, you will need to think long and hard about things like this (setting aside the legal implications). I have only seen a few hosts make money long term - (1) the guys that run small games where nobody gets hurt too bad on a given night, and (2) the big operations with security guards, multiple doors with electronic locks, etc. personally, I would just avoid hosting a raked game altogether. let That be someone else’s problem. Or just host a non raked game (u will see u will draw a better group of action players).

and if the above does not dissuade you from hosting, read my post on “poker players are squirrels“. That should make u run away screaming.

Thank you

I've been hosting for 12+ years.
Same stakes, similar player group.

Fortunately, I run a very tight set of rules around credit, security, services and most importantly - who plays.

In short, if players can't afford - no invite.

It's very nice setup.
$15k custom made poker table
$150k poker room fit out (glass walls looking into swimming pools, bar, TV's, couches etc. Very high end).
Two pro dealers
Secure room with camera
Top shelf drinks
Food catered.

Credit - Players can only borrow upto the amount they bring. Must be paid before before next game. It's worked for 12 years.... no issues.

The fish are all cashed up... and just don't care.
The sharks are paying bills and lovin life.

Just missing the right chips, gotta get my hands on some Paulsons Classics! (I'm willing to beg).

 

[Goldfish]

Thank you

I've been hosting for 12+ years.
Same stakes, similar player group.

Fortunately, I run a very tight set of rules around credit, security, services and most importantly - who plays.

In short, if players can't afford - no invite.

It's very nice setup.
$15k custom made poker table
$150k poker room fit out (glass walls looking into swimming pools, bar, TV's, couches etc. Very high end).
Two pro dealers
Secure room with camera
Top shelf drinks
Food catered.

Credit - Players can only borrow upto the amount they bring. Must be paid before before next game. It's worked for 12 years.... no issues.

The fish are all cashed up... and just don't care.
The sharks are paying bills and lovin life.

Just missing the right chips, gotta get my hands on some Paulsons Classics! (I'm willing to beg).

Sounds like you have the experience and system to keep everything under control. It also sounds like a game I would like to play in….. please say this is a plo and/or big o game and not holdem…..

 

[Talrem]

Thank you

I've been hosting for 12+ years.
Same stakes, similar player group.

Fortunately, I run a very tight set of rules around credit, security, services and most importantly - who plays.

In short, if players can't afford - no invite.

It's very nice setup.
$15k custom made poker table
$150k poker room fit out (glass walls looking into swimming pools, bar, TV's, couches etc. Very high end).
Two pro dealers
Secure room with camera
Top shelf drinks
Food catered.

Credit - Players can only borrow upto the amount they bring. Must be paid before before next game. It's worked for 12 years.... no issues.

The fish are all cashed up... and just don't care.
The sharks are paying bills and lovin life.

Just missing the right chips, gotta get my hands on some Paulsons Classics! (I'm willing to beg).

I’m selling a Casino de Isthmus set if you’re interested. They‘re not Classics, but still the same great feel and sound!

 

[Budha]

Here in VA, that's the same as a rake. Not sure about NY.

I personally have played in raked games...only a couple though, and on the smaller side. If I were to play in a game as big as 5/5, I would expect a level of security along with a good dealer. I do not have any moral issues with them, but the HUGE problem I see is with quality control. How do I know I am not a target of some cheating scam? How do I know it's not set up to be robbed? How do I know there isn't some other illegal stuff going on...like it's a crystal meth lab during the day? Same reason I dont drink moonshine. If you can't work a toothbrush, I am not drinking something you made.

As far as if you were to just make poker legal....I think the open market would probably wash out most of the underground games pretty quick...save some that are offering their clients something else. Think about the Washington state market...where you have a small card room in the back of a convenience store, then a nicer card room in a shopping mall. I think that's what a straight up open market would look like. If that were the case, I would never play in a raked game at someone's house with no security.


To the OP, 25% sounds like A TON to me...but what do I know? I am lucky to be able to play rake free for the most part.

Your missing out - the best moonshine comes out of VA. Made it through college (VMI) on the stuff!! Cures a cold quicker then medicine

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

Thank you

I've been hosting for 12+ years.
Same stakes, similar player group.

Fortunately, I run a very tight set of rules around credit, security, services and most importantly - who plays.

In short, if players can't afford - no invite.

It's very nice setup.
$15k custom made poker table
$150k poker room fit out (glass walls looking into swimming pools, bar, TV's, couches etc. Very high end).
Two pro dealers
Secure room with camera
Top shelf drinks
Food catered.

Credit - Players can only borrow upto the amount they bring. Must be paid before before next game. It's worked for 12 years.... no issues.

The fish are all cashed up... and just don't care.
The sharks are paying bills and lovin life.

Just missing the right chips, gotta get my hands on some Paulsons Classics! (I'm willing to beg)

Thank you

I've been hosting for 12+ years.
Same stakes, similar player group.

Fortunately, I run a very tight set of rules around credit, security, services and most importantly - who plays.

In short, if players can't afford - no invite.

It's very nice setup.
$15k custom made poker table
$150k poker room fit out (glass walls looking into swimming pools, bar, TV's, couches etc. Very high end).
Two pro dealers
Secure room with camera
Top shelf drinks
Food catered.

Credit - Players can only borrow upto the amount they bring. Must be paid before before next game. It's worked for 12 years.... no issues.

The fish are all cashed up... and just don't care.
The sharks are paying bills and lovin life.

Just missing the right chips, gotta get my hands on some Paulsons Classics! (I'm willing to beg).

Dude, if you’re spending that much on security why are taking a risk on chips available to anyone that they could slip into the game.

Get custom designed CPCs or ceramics for security purposes. Even if you you spend $15k that’s the cost of one of your tables.

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

Thank you

I've been hosting for 12+ years.
Same stakes, similar player group.

Fortunately, I run a very tight set of rules around credit, security, services and most importantly - who plays.

In short, if players can't afford - no invite.

It's very nice setup.
$15k custom made poker table
$150k poker room fit out (glass walls looking into swimming pools, bar, TV's, couches etc. Very high end).
Two pro dealers
Secure room with camera
Top shelf drinks
Food catered.

Credit - Players can only borrow upto the amount they bring.

Dude, that’s not a home game that’s a casino.

 

[allforcharity]

Just missing the right chips, gotta get my hands on some Paulsons Classics! (I'm willing to beg).

Since you're willing to invest in the rest of the experience, do it right with some custom CPCs. Or, if you're into the whole European vibe, custom jetons and plaques from MSK.

 

[WRGBET]

Sounds like you have the experience and system to keep everything under control. It also sounds like a game I would like to play in….. please say this is a plo and/or big o game and not holdem…..

One round of each until midnight, then PLO.
It's a really good game, very juicy

 

[WRGBET]

Since you're willing to invest in the rest of the experience, do it right with some custom CPCs. Or, if you're into the whole European vibe, custom jetons and plaques from MSK.

I'm new to chips... already Falling for Paulsons (good name for a book).

Ill look into CPCs... cheers

 

[allforcharity]

I'm new to chips... already Falling for Paulsons (good name for a book).

Ill look into CPCs... cheers

Get some inspiration from the current contest for best chipsets of 2020 going on right now; plenty of them are CPC products

 

[grebe]

Your missing out - the best moonshine comes out of VA. Made it through college (VMI) on the stuff!! Cures a cold quicker then medicine

I've had it. I have family from below Roanoke. Not missing anything.