Cash Game Help with denoms and chip count for new sets (1 Viewer)

[alittlemessi]

I’m looking for some advice on what denominations and the chip amount for building both a cash and tournament set. Ideally, I’d like to build both of these sets with 900 to 1200 chips total.

For the cash set, we play NLHE cash games and blackjack with the fam. Also, I included some more of my preferences for the cash set:

• NLHE, but I am debating putting a max bet limit (maybe $3-$5)
• Typical Buy-in: $20 to $50
• Unlimited buy-ins
• 3 to 8 players max
• Blinds: $0.25/$0.50, but I like the idea of doing $0.25/$0.25
• Potential breakdowns for $25 to $50 buy-in
  • $0.25 - 20
  • $1.00 - 20
  • $5.00 - 0 to 5
• Estimated chip count (~500 total)
  • 200 - $0.25
  • 200 - $1.00
  • 100 - $5.00
  • ??? - $25.00

As for the tournament set, I’m not quite sure exactly what I need. We play cash games most of the time, but I still would like a decent tournament set for family events. Also, we played with a breakdown of T10K recently, but we didn’t plan the BB increases so the tournament lasted a lot longer than I care to admit…

Nevertheless, below are some of the initial thoughts that I had for the tourney set. I’m open to feedback, recommendations or guidance on this because this is very much new to me and there are a lot of different opinions/preferences online.

• Typically, 5-8 players
• Lasting 2 hours (3 hours max)
• I’d like to play bounties
• T-10K, Starting blind $25/$50
• We haven’t played with re-buys but it has been brought up

Any help recommendations or guidance is greatly appreciated!

 

[JustinInMN]

Well I am glad we are discussing 2 sets with about a 1000 chips each.

Here's what I would do for cash.
0.25*200
1*400
5*300
25*80
100*20

Bank 5950.

This is enough quarters for either 0.25-0.25 or 0.25-0.50.

I went a little singles heavy because for 0.25-0.25 that will be the workhorse chip. 0.25-0.50 will be a mix of singles and fives, but not really all that many fives. You can comfortably do two tables at the lower stakes with this breakdown, and it is enough for upward mobility to 0.50-1 (or 1-1), and could work for one table of 1-2 that might be a little tight on fives.

As for tournament, if you search around PCF the the two most common tournament breakdowns, using T25/100/500/1000 chips are 8/8/4/7 (bare minimum) or 12/12/5/6 (moar chips).

So from there you just estimate how many buy-ins you need and add extra big chips for color ups and re-buys.

So to accommodate 10 stacks of 12/12/5/6

You need 120/120/50/60 to start. Plus 1.5 *T1000 per player for color ups, an extra 15.

So that's 365 chips right there. Round as you must for buying and add some T5000 for rebuys and you can run a good tournament for about 400 chips only. Apply these calculations to any number of players you like.

Good luck.

 

[JustinInMN]

I should add if you are looking to improve your structure, it is probably handy to use the rule of thumb that the tournament will probably end when the total chips in play represent 20 x BB. So if you figure 10 players and a 50% rebuy rate, that's 15 entries times T10K or T150K in chips. Divide by 20 means estimate the end when the BB goes over T7500.

For designing structures I favor multiples of 2-4, 3-6, 4-8, 6-12, 8-16 of every chip in play with optional 1-1, 1-2, and 2-3 levels at the start.

So say you do
25-50, 50-75, 50-100, 75-150, 100-200, 150-300
(Color T25)
200-400, 300-600, 400-800, 600-1200, 800-1600,
(Color T100)
1000-2000, 1500-3000, 2K-4K, 3K-6K, 4K-8K (Estimate end), 6K-12K, 8K-16K

So you would estimate 16 levels, set your time accordingly.

To your case, sounds like you are thinking 8 players, and maybe a 50% rebuy rate for 12 starting stacks. Personally I like levels that are at least 18 minutes so you could play 10 such levels in 3 hours. So with the above structure you would want the tournament to end at 600-1200, or get T24K in play. If you started at 50-100, you would play until 1000-2000 meaning you would want your total in play to me about 40K, meaning starting stacks around T5K.

Two to three hour tournaments are tough. They really can't be that deep by design.

 

[alittlemessi]

Hey, Justin. Thanks for the info. I’ll take a look at this later today when I get out of work!

 

[Shaggy]

Well I am glad we are discussing 2 sets with about a 1000 chips each.

Pretty sure he was looking for ~1000 chips total.

That being said... based on the description of your players/games:

Cash:
150x 25c
200x $1
150x $5

(total bank: $987.50 with 500 chips)

I normally recommend fewer 25c chips... 100x for a 9-10 player table. I get the vibe that your family game will be on the limpier side... more 25c would serve you well. You never really need more than the initial buy-in of 25c chips however. 8x 20chips = 160 chips... 150x 25c chips is close enough.

Others can speak more about the tournies. I do know that the 1000 chip breakdown that I have supports 4 tables... so you should be able to get by with ~400 chips easily.

 

[JustinInMN]

Pretty sure he was looking for ~1000 chips total.

Ah after reading it again, I think you are right. We definitely need a more modest proposal then. The good news is we are only talking about single table and I think the 400 chip tourney set I suggested makes sense. So we can still get a lot for 600 chips in a cash set.

So using 0.25/1/5, I would suggest 100/300/200

That should be good for single table 0.25-0.50, and still quite playable for 0.25-0.25. (Though I agree more quarters might be nice, but maybe not necessary. (Limps at 0.25-0.25 only require one quarter instead of two in the case of 0.25-0.50, it's the raises to 0.75 that would probably take more chips or require getting good at change making.) But with only 600 chips with which to work, I think doing more than 100 quarters is tough to justify, it's really dollars and maybe fives you need the most.

So that would give you a bank of 1325 or well over 160 per player 8 handed. I know some 0.25-0.50 games that PCFers have may play high enough to reach this stake. In game's I've hosted the high score is about 1000 in play. If you think that's the case, maybe do 100/300/180/20 (25 dollar chips) to bulk the bank to 1725.

Starting stacks: I think the @abby99 method is best. Divide one rack of quarters among the first 5 players. Everyone else gets their chips in whole dollars. And can make change.

 

[alittlemessi]

@JustinInMN @Shaggy

Thank you guys for your input and Shaggy was spot on. Sorry for the confusion, but you guys figured it out before I could respond.

Shaggy you do bring up a good point regarding the pace of the game. My close friends and family play pretty conservative, so I may get a few more quarters than the norm. However, I do like the method that Justin brought up.

Dividing a rack of quarters among the first 25 players will make things easy, and the atmosphere in these cash games is very casual. It funny because we usually don't plan on playing NLHE cash games but after a few drinks we find ourselves throwing in $25 each.

As for the tournament set, the 25/100/500/1000 was the denoms that I was planning on getting and I actually picked up some Elites today from the classifieds. Also, you provide some interesting insight I did not consider with tournaments and the depth when playing a 3 hour game. I'll put some more mindshare into how best we can structure the increases to make for a well paced game.Then, I'll add onto the Elites I got today to accommodate to the structure I decide on.

Again, I really appreciate your input and I feel comfortable with what I need for my cash set, but I'll spend some more time on defining how I want to fill out my tournament set!

 

[alittlemessi]

As for tournament, if you search around PCF the the two most common tournament breakdowns, using T25/100/500/1000 chips are 8/8/4/7 (bare minimum) or 12/12/5/6 (moar chips).

So from there you just estimate how many buy-ins you need and add extra big chips for color ups and re-buys.

Also, I like the idea of moar chips. I have a feeling that I will have many sets as I get more friends joining our poker nights.

 

[Shaggy]

Just remember my "extra" quarters statement is what brought you from 100x to 150x. Don't do more than that unless you really want to. Often times people say "we don't want to deal with making change" as an excuse to get more quarters. In reality, more quarters just end up being hoarded in one person's stack... and you're making change anyway.

There are smooth ways to make change as well... so its nearly effortless. Imagine a few people limp in for 25c... then some guy raises to 75c. Encourage the callers to call with a dollar. Discourage them from trying to make change with someone else before they call. Discourage them from trying to immediately make change from the pot if they call with $1. Once all bets are called, the dealer will give them change from the pot. This really smooths things out and speeds things up. Additionally, you as a player can make your bets and raises in $1 increments... minimizing the use of the 25c chips. Others may start to catch on.

 

[alittlemessi]

I'll have to make list and print out some house rules for change making and general etiquette when playing. Great advice!

 

[Beakertwang]

a more modest proposal

Are you suggesting that he raise money for chips by selling his children for food?!

 

[JustinInMN]

There are smooth ways to make change as well... so its nearly effortless. Imagine a few people limp in for 25c... then some guy raises to 75c. Encourage the callers to call with a dollar. Discourage them from trying to make change with someone else before they call. Discourage them from trying to immediately make change from the pot if they call with $1.

All of this

 

[JustinInMN]

I actually picked up some Elites today from the classifieds.

I had to search after you said this. Found the ad, nice pickup. Should serve you well .

 

[alittlemessi]

I had to search after you said this. Found the ad, nice pickup. Should serve you well .

Yeah, I’m stoked. Loved handling the sample set.