Help me understand "Playing a low" (1 Viewer)

[krafticus]

Just wanted to reach out to the masses and see if anyone can help me understand these concepts of playing the "low" in game with a low.

-Playing a lock low - I know there are several times in which playing the lock low can result in getting quartered, or less in a pot. From a strategy perspective, I understand that we should be playing pots in an effort to scoop the entire pot; however, are there times when one should be folding a lock low?
* for Example, You have AA23 double suited (hhdd) on a flop of 6s7s8c . You are essentially guaranteed the low, but have 0 high equity. You are first to act, and lead out. Action then goes POT, and RE-POT before you. Do you get it in hoping for 1/2, but knowing you may only get a quarter? This is provided you have no tells or reads on the villains.

-Figuring out the low - This part has always been confusing to me. Lets say I have A277 (Hey, I was in the BB, and it checked around to me). The flop comes out 72K. The turn is an A, and the river is a 4. There are now 4 low cards on the board, but all 3 of my cards are matched. Do I have a low? At the same time, player B has 4588. Does his low beat mine, because his 8 is not paired on the board?
* At the same time, lets say I have AA23 and my opponent has AA27. The board runs out A345K. be both have a wheel. Does his 7 beat my A2 for the low?

Generally, we don't play many games with Low qualifiers. Generally looking for some guidance on the best way to play hands when a low-qualifier is involved.

Thanks

Mark

 

[Beakertwang]

-Figuring out the low - This part has always been confusing to me. Lets say I have A277 (Hey, I was in the BB, and it checked around to me). The flop comes out 72K. The turn is an A, and the river is a 4. There are now 4 low cards on the board, but all 3 of my cards are matched. Do I have a low? At the same time, player B has 4588. Does his low beat mine, because his 8 is not paired on the board?

You do not have a low. You need five unique qualifying low cards. Your opponent has A2457 for the low. If the turn were a 6, rather than an A, you would qualify with A2467.

* At the same time, lets say I have AA23 and my opponent has AA27. The board runs out A345K. be both have a wheel. Does his 7 beat my A2 for the low?

You would chop. In a similar, but more extreme example, let’s say the board is A2345, you hold AA23, your opponent holds 4566. Assuming no flush, opponent would win hi with a 6-high straight, and you would split the low, both having the wheel.

Hope that helps.


I’ll leave the strategy to someone smarter.

 

[Psypher1000]

Do I have a low?

No. And in that example the nut low would be 35 because that completes the wheel (which, for the purposes of the low, ignored the fact that it’s a straight for some agreed-upon reason).

Does his low beat mine

Yes, because he has one and you don’t.

Does his 7 beat my A2 for the low?

No, you both play your A2 from your respective hands along with the 345 from the board.

 

[WedgeRock]

If you're playing Hi-Lo, the nut low is still vulnerable to being quartered (as is the high, but it's less likely, IMO).

If you are playing for half the pot, you should at least have a shit at the scoop, of a draw to a good hand for the other half.

Folding the nut low is tough. Opponents could be playing the high. Getting quartered is better than folding for $0. And it's easier to call with a nut low when you have something for the high (decent hand it draw to a decent hand).

In your example, I can fold there (you could be getting sixthed on the low). There is still a backdoor draw to a boat, but facing Pot and Re-Pot, I'm okay with a fold. It's the difference between a river call (where you get a quarter or your call back, but also a quarter if everything in the pot) and facing three more streets of Pot and Re-Pot.

Figuring the low is easy. Take your two lowest cards and the three lowest, non-pairing board cards (note, this may not be the lowest cards in your hand). When comparing two lows, start with the highest card and work back toward the lowest. The hand with a lower card wins. (A2367 beats A2467.)

 

[Beakertwang]

The hand with a lower card wins. (A2367 beats A2467.)

This can be the most confusing aspect of determining the low hand.

Another example: If board is 456, I hold A8 and my opponent holds 37, he wins the low as his 7 is lower than my 8.

 

[krafticus]

What if I have A234 and the board runs out A2348.
Do I have a low?

 

[WedgeRock]

This can be the most confusing aspect of determining the low hand.

Another example: If board is 456, I hold A8 and my opponent holds 37, he wins the low as his 7 is lower than my 8.

Agreed.

Imagine taking the 5 cards and laying them out.




Starting from the highest card, it's clear that the 37 is a better low than A8.

Now, when you figure this nuance out, we'll talk about Deuce to Seven Triple Draw.

 

[WedgeRock]

What if I have A234 and the board runs out A2348.
Do I have a low?

Yes. Play A2 from your hand and 348 from the board.

But you are beat by a hand with xx56 because his top low card is a 6, yours is an 8.

An odd (but not terribly uncommon) example of A2 not being the nut low.

Ain't this fun?

 

[krafticus]

Agreed.

Imagine taking the 5 cards and laying them out.




Starting from the highest card, it's clear that the 37 is a better low than A8.

Now, when you figure this nuance out, we'll talk about Deuce to Seven Triple Draw.

I definitely understand calculating the low when there are no paired cards from your hand. I believe you can have a low if you have a paired card, though, and that is where my confusion sets in.

I have A2348, you have A2378. The board runs out A2347. Do we chop? (yes, I know this is a 5 card hand, which will be played this coming weekend)

 

[Jonesey07]

What if I have A234 and the board runs out A2348.
Do I have a low?

Yes.

You would play A2 from your hand, 348 from the board.

 

[WedgeRock]

I have A2348, you have A2378. The board runs out A2347. Do we chop? (yes, I know this is a 5 card hand, which will be played this coming weekend)

Yes, chop. We are both playing A8 from our hands and make identical A²³⁴8 lows. (Used superscript to show the board cards).

This is an example if not using the two lowest cards in your hand for a low.

Best advice, turn your hand face up, and figure it out with the other players. Cards speak.

 

[krafticus]

Yes, chop. We are both playing A8 from our hands and make identical A²³⁴8 lows. (Used superscript to show the board cards).

Best advice, turn your hand face up, and figure it out with the other players. Cards speak.

While learning .. I agree. Once I've called off my entire stack.. and they tell me "you don't have a low".. No thanks..

 

[krafticus]

I have A2348, you have A2378. The board runs out A2347. Do we chop? (yes, I know this is a 5 card hand, which will be played this coming weekend)

Yes, chop. We are both playing A8 from our hands and make identical A²³⁴8 lows. (Used superscript to show the board cards).

This is an example if not using the two lowest cards in your hand for a low.

Also, in this case, a player with a 56 in their hand would scoop the low (and high potentially), correct?

 

[Beakertwang]

Agreed.

Imagine taking the 5 cards and laying them out.




Starting from the highest card, it's clear that the 37 is a better low than A8.

Now, when you figure this nuance out, we'll talk about Deuce to Seven Triple Draw.

That’s actually the part that seems to be the hardest to learn, in my experience, because the A is the lowest card in the deck, but doesn’t really count in this case.

 

[WedgeRock]

While learning .. I agree. Once I've called off my entire stack.. and they tell me "you don't have a low".. No thanks..

If anyone remembers Ryder8 from HPT, he once called a large river bet three ways and announced, "I've got the nut low."

Game had changed two hands earlier and we were playing high only.

 

[WedgeRock]

Also, in this case, a player with a 56 in their hand would scoop the low (and high potentially), correct?

Correct.

You are playing A4 for the high (two pair). I am playing A7 for a better two pair. But xx56 makes a straight for the high.

xx57 would also have a better low than us (but not better than 56) but would not have much for the high (depending on what his 'xx' is...)

 

[Rhodeman77]

Also you are slightly off on Lock Low. In your example you say you have AA23 on a 678 board. It is the nut low, but if A2, A3, 23 ran out on the board you would longer have the nut low, pretty rare, but possibly. You would need A234 on that flop to have an absolute lock low.

 

[ThinkingFold]

That’s actually the part that seems to be the hardest to learn, in my experience, because the A is the lowest card in the deck, but doesn’t really count in this case.

Agreed. I was taught to look at the cards backwards as a number with the ace being a 1.

So,

= 86,541
= 76,543

Lower number wins.

 

[Jonesey07]

Agreed. I was taught to look at the cards backwards as a number with the ace being a 1.

So,

= 86,541
= 76,543

Lower number wins.

@codeman00 Here's our answer from months ago.

 

[navels]

I have A2348, you have A2378. The board runs out A2347. Do we chop? (yes, I know this is a 5 card hand, which will be played this coming weekend)

Yes, chop. We are both playing A8 from our hands and make identical A²³⁴8 lows. (Used superscript to show the board cards).

isn't the low A2347?

 

[WedgeRock]

isn't the low A2347?

...aaaaand this is why you roll your hand over.

We both play A2 from our hands for A2347 lows. Chop.

Apologies over mis-read lows are common and should not be construed as a slowroll.

 

[Mr Tree]

If anyone remembers Ryder8 from HPT, he once called a large river bet three ways and announced, "I've got the nut low."

Game had changed two hands earlier and we were playing high only.

That’s the killer in long mixed game sessions. I can’t tell you how many times action gets to me and I have to reboot in my head and internally ask, “what game are we playing again?”

 

[DoubleEagle]

Agreed.

Imagine taking the 5 cards and laying them out.




Starting from the highest card, it's clear that the 37 is a better low than A8.

IMO, it is always best to declare your low stating your two highest qualifying cards. In this case, the top hand is an eighty-six (or 8-6) and the bottom hand is a seventy-six (7-6). It makes it very easy to understand who has the lowest hand.

 

[WedgeRock]

That’s the killer in long mixed game sessions. I can’t tell you how many times action gets to me and I have to reboot in my head and internally ask, “what game are we playing again?”

Hi-Low buttons help. "Hi" on one side and ""Hi-Lo" on the other.

Plugging a forum member's side business, @mike32 custom makes these by hand...

 

[Mr Tree]

Hi-Low buttons help. "Hi" on one side and ""Hi-Lo" on the other.

Plugging a forum member's side business, @mike32 custom makes these by hand...

Yeah, but when they deal out three boards and you’ve been playing Dramaha for the last hour that’s a whole other beast than hi/lo entirely.

 

[mike32]

That’s the killer in long mixed game sessions. I can’t tell you how many times action gets to me and I have to reboot in my head and internally ask, “what game are we playing again?”

Define “long” please. This happens to me after about an hour sometimes I think. I’m sure alcohol could play a role for me....

 

[mike32]

Recently I won a couple pots while I was actually playing the wrong game in my head. I bet on the river and everyone folded. I showed my cards and lolllz ensued. This has led to a new chapter in my long awaited book called “Bluffing yourself for profits”.

 

[WedgeRock]

This has led to a new chapter in my long awaited book called “Bluffing yourself for profits”.

We were developing a new chapter for you on Wednesday:

"Minimizing profits by bluffing three streets in to two calling stations"

 

[Mr Tree]

Recently I won a couple pots while I was actually playing the wrong game in my head. I bet on the river and everyone folded. I showed my cards and lolllz ensued. This has led to a new chapter in my long awaited book called “Bluffing yourself for profits”.

We were developing a new chapter for you on Wednesday:

"Minimizing profits by bluffing three streets in to two calling stations"

Lol we had one come up a bit back where a guy misread his hand and then called my bluff on the river. I won with Q high. I termed it “value bluffing”

 

[Shaggy]

A suggestion when playing low games... look at the board and identify what two hole cards will give you (or your opponent) the nut low. It is not always cut and dry... specifically if there are 4 low cards on the board. Prime example is what was brought up above... yes, your A2 is the nut low on the flop, but if a 2 comes on the turn, A3 becomes the nut low.