Have Chinese cards mold replica sets gone too far? (23 Viewers)

aggie said:
So basically it’s ok to rip something off as long as most people should know the difference according to you? Interesting take.
Click to expand...
How did you read what I wrote and come to that response?

I never said it's OK to rip something off. But look at it another way: most people around here are going to immediately know the difference. So if a person tries to pass them off as the real thing, it's going to immediately apparent.

Now if someone is trying to sell them and misrepresenting them as the real thing - that's fraud. But I don't that's the point of this discussion, is it?
 
Moxie Mike said:
How did you read what I wrote and come to that response?

I never said it's OK to rip something off. But look at it another way: most people around here are going to immediately know the difference. So if a person tries to pass them off as the real thing, it's going to immediately apparent.

Now if someone is trying to sell them and misrepresenting them as the real thing - that's fraud. But I don't that's the point of this discussion, is it?
Click to expand...
“Most people around here” sure but I think the issue being made is that it could and will eventually happen - as in its binary (will/won’t happen) not a mix of gray of where it could happen and where it couldn’t.

I’ll admit I mistook photos of the PNY CMs for the real thing a few times. The right lighting and angle can work wonders for potential scammers.
 
Moxie Mike said:
How did you read what I wrote and come to that response?

I never said it's OK to rip something off. But look at it another way: most people around here are going to immediately know the difference. So if a person tries to pass them off as the real thing, it's going to immediately apparent.

Now if someone is trying to sell them and misrepresenting them as the real thing - that's fraud. But I don't that's the point of this discussion, is it?
Click to expand...
So it’s not OK but it’s still great for the community because 1) it’s bound to happen anyways, and 2) most people will should know the difference?
 
I'm ok with it, even though I know it creates one more hurdle of knowledge for somebody new to poker chip set collecting. I say that because this forum IS the one and only best place for knowledge and community for poker chip set collecting, and there is not a single person here trying to pass off cards mold replica chips as anything other than cards mold replica chips. If they ever did, they would be promptly eviscerated and taken behind the woodshed, metaphorically.

Feebay is not a consideration. It has always been full of shysters and scammers and manipulators. These cards mold chips aren't going to do anything to add to or subtract from that crowd. And thechipboard police who are always yelling at the clouds and foaming at the mouth about "FAKE CHIPS" will simply have one more type of chip adding to their permanent state of disquietude. No biggie there either.
 
pacmartine said:
For those that are okay with it does the same opinion apply if someone creates a set based off someone’s CPC custom set?
Click to expand...
Are they alive or dead? Is the set from the 1960s or 1970s? If they are alive, have I asked their permission (and the artist)?
 
pacmartine said:
For those that are okay with it does the same opinion apply if someone creates a set based off someone’s CPC custom set?
Click to expand...
Completely different scenario. Personally, I wouldn't care if someone copied my designs... in fact I've publicly offered to make the artwork available for free. But I can see where people would take issue with it.
 
FDLmold said:
Are they alive or dead? Is the set from the 1960s or 1970s? If they are alive, have I asked their permission (and the artist)?
Click to expand...
I mean in the vain of someone just made a set that everyone loved. It was only their set. No request for art is made. I’d name some of my favs but I don’t want to get them involved…or give anyone an idea. :)
 
It appears the consensus “opposing” viewpoint is that since it’s inevitable and there are no obvious victims (by replicating large or obsolete casinos), then we might as well embrace it.

While I do appreciate and understand the sentiment, I don’t agree. If I’m browsing an art forum, I don’t want to see fakes. Same goes for watches or comics or cars or anything else.

Seeing PCF get behind & promote a replica mold, on the other hand, will be a tough pill for me to swallow — especially when the primary defense is because “the chips I want are too expensive now.”
 
1. Are the chips purposely trying to mislead somebody into believing that they are originals? Not cool.

2. Are the chips done in an obvious tribute to an existing casino set but with any amount of customization that makes it so parent they are not the originals?. No problem.

3. If they come out with a Tina chip, that is a direct rip off of TH&C, that’d be not cool. I.
 
pacmartine said:
For those that are okay with it does the same opinion apply if someone creates a set based off someone’s CPC custom set?
Click to expand...
Pretty huge difference between a casino and a dedicated fellow hobbyist. In my time here I've never seen anyone openly copying a cpc set. While there's a bunch of tributes, relabels and replicas for casinos.

For those claiming the casinos brand is somehow hurt by this, I view it the other way. To me it feels like the casino will gain from this. The cards molds are basically free advertisment, and for example Aria gets to be even more of a household name to many potential casino customers. Will probably feel natural to check out the Aria if you haven't been there before, after owning or playing a tribute set from there.

As for legalities, the copyright thing is probably the same if you copy a casino design or the design of a fellow hobbyists cpc set (i have no clue, not a layer), but I still don't feel one bit as strongly about copying a casino design (which I have done -although its a closed casino so slightly different) as I do a cpc design (which I would never in my life do).
 
When I went to add a custom CPC frac for my Jessie Beck's and the scrown mold, I had to make the design different enough as to not be confused that is was a legit "real" Jessie Beck chip, CPC mandated that. And the Jessie Beck casino has not be in operation since 1978. CPC will not produce an exact copy. Just like when they released the Chesterfield's from Rounders, they changed the design and mold so it could be distinguished from the original.

The Tina tributes exact copies, and the (most likely) future TinaHC molds are probably going to cause some big confusion down the road. I don't see it any different than the fake Rolexes being sold for $30 on a New York street corner. Those in the know can spot the fake ( weight, movement, material, ... ) , but the masses have no idea what they are looking at. It'll be the same as Tina chips get even better. The ignorant newbie will get duped. Yeah, yeah, caveat emptor and all that bullshit, but is it good for our hobby/community?

So a question to the community. Should we have a section on PCF where all discussion and images of Tina chips are relegated to to help try and mitigate confusion of those who come here looking for information, so they know that they are faux tributes and not the real thing???? Is that our responsibility? :unsure: Some of those more recent sets ( PNY and Bellagio ) are damn good "fakes" and at have duped me at first glance.
 
F49553CC-91DD-4EDA-A23F-8F502EBF8E03.jpeg
 
aggie said:
It appears the consensus “opposing” viewpoint is that since it’s inevitable and there are no obvious victims (by replicating large or obsolete casinos), then we might as well embrace it.

While I do appreciate and understand the sentiment, I don’t agree. If I’m browsing an art forum, I don’t want to see fakes. Same goes for watches or comics or cars or anything else.

Seeing PCF get behind & promote a replica mold, on the other hand, will be a tough pill for me to swallow — especially when the primary defense is because “the chips I want are too expensive now.”
Click to expand...
No one wants to see the fakes passed off as originals. But that's not what's happening here.

In general, people will purchase the best product they can afford. If a person perceived a Cadillac to be of higher value than a Chevrolet - and they can afford a Cadillac, that's probably what they'll buy.

Following that example, if a person is comparing the cost of a new Chevrolet vs a 4 year old Cadillac, they may very well choose the Cadillac.

This kind of parallels what's going on here. The CMs are probably the best value at .40/chip. So it's understandable why they're popular. I don't think the 'replica' part of the conversation is even relevant. If someone came out with some cool designs that people liked similar to how BR PRO did with the DDLM and other designs, you wouldn't think anything of it.

But when you add the fact that the chips are 100% customizable and/or you can replicate the design of your favorite casino for the same $, that only increases their value in the marketplace.

The addition of a TH&C mold is just the next evolution in the market. The demand is obviously there.
 
In my opinion, where the card molds (and hybrids, for that matter) from Tina excel, is allowing me to design a fantasy chip set with the Paulson chip tool, and getting an affordable fully custom chip set. Some of the tribute sets are cool, but overall they have very little appeal to me.
 
aggie said:
I totally get the allure of buying cheap, fake versions of a real thing, but it seems more and more “replica” posts show up daily. Is this good for poker chip collecting in general? Is it good for PCF?
......
Am I alone here? I’m definitely open to opposing perspectives.
Click to expand...
Well, you are certainly not alone. I'm kind of neutral on the whole thing. I see your point, but at the same time I do not see cards mold chips as a threat to chip collecting or to PCF. In fact, in some ways its a little like a gateway drug into chipping. We might actually gain some chippers that would otherwise be priced out of the hobby.

BearMetal said:
.....So the Chinese replicas are knockoffs being sold as the originals, right?
Click to expand...
As an example, you are referring to fake Chinese watches being sold as originals, right?

I don't think that anyone that is buying a Rolex for a couple hundred bucks really thinks they are buying an authentic Rolex, do you? In the same way, I doubt that anyone one that spends 50c/chip on a Cards mold Dunes set really thinks they are buying an original set that should sell for at least 10x that. Right?

In the forum watchuseek which is arguably the biggest watch enthusiast forum they ban talking about and posting pics of fake/replica watches. I'm not sure what good it really does. The Chinese fake watch shops keep making fake watches an anyone that wants to buy fake watches is just pushed into another area of the internet.

I think I would argue that copyrights, patents, trademarks etc should be enforced worldwide, but since they are not and the Chinese choose to not enforce this sort of thing no amount of policing or enforcing on websites like this will change anything. This being the case, buyers of both chips and watches and anything else that can be copied/faked should treat the whole thing as a "buyer beware" type of situation.
 
Nanook said:
As an example, you are referring to fake Chinese watches being sold as originals, right?

I don't think that anyone that is buying a Rolex for a couple hundred bucks really thinks they are buying an authentic Rolex, do you? In the same way, I doubt that anyone one that spends 50c/chip on a Cards mold Dunes set really thinks they are buying an original set that should sell for at least 10x that. Right?

In the forum watchuseek which is arguably the biggest watch enthusiast forum they ban talking about and posting pics of fake/replica watches. I'm not sure what good it really does. The Chinese fake watch shops keep making fake watches an anyone that wants to buy fake watches is just pushed into another area of the internet.

I think I would argue that copyrights, patents, trademarks etc should be enforced worldwide, but since they are not and the Chinese choose to not enforce this sort of thing no amount of policing or enforcing on websites like this will change anything. This being the case, buyers of both chips and watches and anything else that can be copied/faked should treat the whole thing as a "buyer beware" type of situation.
Click to expand...
My point was that fake Rolex's are meant to fool people. Tina chips are meant to honor the originals and are clearly different. So I can understand why knockoff Rolex's are banned in real forums, but why Tina chips are welcomed here. If there was suddenly a new bot named Tina 2.0 that sold near replica Paulsons with original artwork, I think that would cause a controversy.

But I hear you about patents and stuff. Arguably, one of the reasons why PCF went to China and away from US-based companies like BRP is because they can copy what they want and nobody seems to care. Sure, "Aria" was changed to "Aria's" and you could say it's somoene's name, but the likeness is there. So, yes, it is spoofing the casino.

But closed casinos and fantasy casinos are OK in my book to be replicated by a clearly different chip (like CM) ... In the case of BTP chips, I believe the artwork owner agreed; if they hadn't, that would be a MAJOR problem.
 
upNdown said:
That’s how things were when I first came to this forum. People respected the rights and property of others. And if they didn’t, they certainly didn’t flaunt it all over the forum. But it’s been like a complete 180 in just a few short years.
Click to expand...

when china manufacturing gets involved, this is the inevitable outcome.
 
Last edited:
BearMetal said:
Tina chips are meant to honor the originals and are clearly different.
Click to expand...
And when they offer the THC mold?

The issue of knowing the difference is clear to anyone that spends 1 hour on this site, but the general public would have no clue. Mothers, Sisters, Grandparents buying xmas gifts aren't going to know the difference.

Tina's chips come with a heavy cost, at least to some. The China connection has no respect for your designs, and no respect for your IP. I've spent $1000s on original artwork and while my brand isn't valued like Aria, it still means something to me. I wouldn't use the China connection for anything I didn't care to see given to others.

The hybrid chips seem to be of a quality, but I will limit my investment. I prefer to purchase a know quality and do business with a company that will respect my security.
 
Here’s my thoughts regarding IP. The right thing to do is to get the IP owners permission. Not getting the permission is bad but it’s not like that big of a deal. I put little Texas A&M logos on my maroon T10K, it what it is, not the most ethical thing anyone has ever done but meh I don’t care.

Where I do get concerned is that there used to be all these little “Las Vegas Casino” CIC souvenirs that would be marketed as live casino chips on eBay. Those were obviously fake. Nobody should be falling for that. These chips on the other hand…you gotta really know what to look for. They look a lot like the casino chips. I’m never going to fall for it. But we as a community gave the scammers a huge product upgrade. And fuck those scammers
 
We need good options at every price point otherwise the hobby will die. I think we would all agree with that. The card mold GBs are keeping things interesting around here. The price of lead around here has reached uncomfortable levels and let’s be honest, who really cares that much anyway?

Is the new THC mold a step too far? It comes down to personal preference but knowing what the « real thing » looks and feels like, I guess most of us will probably shy away from it. I can’t see how it would look anywhere as good or different enough from the original mold to not look like one of those cheap fake (thinking about the fake printed hat and cane - :sick::vomit:). I personally think it will reflect poorly on the « brand ». So yes imo it’s a step too far.

Are the casino tributes a step too far? Depends. I am not sure it is allowed to use the art/design/brand of from a casino that still operates, even if there was a clear indication it’s not the real thing. Making replica of a set that was used in a casino 20-30yrs ago…less problematic but still a grey area…I guess?
 
download (17).jpeg


What's gonna happen is people are going to start selling the THC card molds on eBay, this is gonna cause a security uproar, as casinos have really held onto chips arnt THAT easy to copy. Add in the faux mold, and we now enter an age were chips stop being used and they make you use your players card like a debit, as it's more standard security then chips can now hold. They could care less if it's the real thing, they just don't want some careless worker to let a few slip and it start eating away on casino profits. And people will do anything for a buck. Add a few hundos to a stack, shrug and say "how was I suppose to know, it's chips. What am I? And expert?!?".

The downfall of our civilization....

Or I could just need to eat lunch. One of the two will happen...
 
Josh Kifer said:
View attachment 1028186

What's gonna happen is people are going to start selling the THC card molds on eBay, this is gonna cause a security uproar, as casinos have really held onto chips arnt THAT easy to copy. Add in the faux mold, and we now enter an age were chips stop being used and they make you use your players card like a debit, as it's more standard security then chips can now hold.

The downfall of our civilization....

Or I could just need to eat lunch. One of the two will happen...
Click to expand...
Why not both?
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account and join our community. It's easy!

Register

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Similar threads

Santa123
  • Poll
POLL: Have Chinese cards mold replica sets gone too far?
Replies
12
Views
1K
Santa123
Santa123
B
My thoughts & decision after analyzing 11 popular sample sets
Replies
25
Views
1K
MJM
M
leo822
Advocating For A Better Chip Museum and Explaining Set Collecting to the Chipboard
2 3
Replies
62
Views
5K
DMack
DMack
Taghkanic
The End of Chipping History — ?
2
Replies
46
Views
5K
allforcharity
allforcharity
Irish
Tolkien / LOTR Inspired T-Mold Hot Stamps
2
Replies
37
Views
5K
allforcharity
allforcharity
Back
Top Bottom