Fair rules for a black jack homegame? (2 Viewers)

[Ainton]

By the request of my group, they would like me to host a black jack game at home, is this a good idea?

If so, I would like to know how to make it as fair as possible, as I am not looking to rob my friends in a unfair game of black jack.

In this case I would be the dealer the entire night.

Thoughts?

 

[Rhodeman77]

Are you looking to increase the house edge a little? Standard house edge is very small if the players know how to play correctly.

Will you be using a single deck or a shoe with 6+ decks in it?

 

[mnebesny]

Blackjack is a game where the house edge depends on how well the players play. If they play well you'll only have to adjust it a little before it's an expected value of zero, but if your players don't follow basic strategy, you may have to adjust it alot. So it might take some trial and error to find some good balance in the game.

What I'm assuming you're trying to do is give the game a house edge of zero, so that the players are just as likely to win or lose, and that you as the dealer don't have the advantage over them

Some casinos increase the house edge by paying a blackjack less, like 6:5 instead of 3:2. You could always adjust this the other way to decrease the house edge and pay the players more, perhaps a 2:1 blackjack?

 

[mnebesny]

Alternatively, you could have a rotating banker that everyone plays against so everyone could have a turn with the "house edge" in their favour, like how casinos play Baccarat Chemin de Fer or Pai Gow Poker. If players don't want to bank they can pass, but if they're given the option once in a rotation, it's pretty fair. You might have to play this around a poker table instead of a regular blackjack shaped table

 

[Ainton]

I'll guess I just have to see how well they play and then adjust the rules a bit! thanks for your input

 

[allforcharity]

I think "standard" rules would be fine
- blackjack payout 3:2
- insurance payout 2:1
- even value card splitting to maximum 4 hands per player
- allow double down
- allow aces to split with only one extra card, no blackjack
- deal from 6 decks in a shoe
- consider a maximum bet if you're the house; or play tournament style (same rules, biggest stack wins all the buy-in money)

 

[allforcharity]

I've done blackjack tournaments for my charity fundraising with elimination rounds to qualify for the final table (where players start with a fresh stack). Elimination rounds basically play with the rules above with unlimited rebuys. During the final round, to encourage big betting, I increase the insurance payout to 3:1 and allow aces to be split with full 3:2 payout for blackjack (but still only one extra card dealt), still unlimited rebuys but more expensive.

Biggest stack made in 25 minutes went from T20,000 to about T253,000 or something like that.

 

[cpiaaq]

I’ve done this with the rules @allforcharity posted though with only 4 decks. Added a bonus bet (first 2 cards) for fun… going from memory it went something like
Suited cards: 1:1
Blackjack 1:1
Suited 10s 2:1
Suited blackjack 2:1
Any pair 5:1
Suited pair 20:1

folks liked it a lot even though it’s a “sucker bet”

 

[Ainton]

Thanks! I will try this

 

[BGinGA]

Just have the players play vs each other. Best hand wins all bets, ties push or are split. Dealer can play or not, but is not the 'house'.

Can deal everybody 1-up and 1-down if desired, or even 2-down.

Use a button to change first-to-act on each hand.

 

[Ainton]

Just have the players play vs each other. Best hand wins all bets, ties push or are split. Dealer can play or not, but is not the 'house'.

Can deal everybody 1-up and 1-down if desired, or even 2-down.

Use a button to change first-to-act on each hand.

This sounds like a fun way to play!

 

[planetary]

Just have the players play vs each other. Best hand wins all bets, ties push or are split. Dealer can play or not, but is not the 'house'.

Can deal everybody 1-up and 1-down if desired, or even 2-down.

Use a button to change first-to-act on each hand.

Interesting. What's the betting sequence for this?

 

[Ainton]

Interesting. What's the betting sequence for this?

Probably with blinds as normal hold em so first person after dealer to act

 

[planetary]

So: blinds, then deal 2 cards, then bet, then optionally hit/stand/etc around the table, then a final round of betting, then showdown?

 

[BGinGA]

So: blinds, then deal 2 cards, then bet, then optionally hit/stand/etc around the table, then a final round of betting, then showdown?

It's blackjack, not poker, although it can be played 10-handed on a poker table.

Every player posts an identical 'blind' bet (players can optionally post for and play more than one hand). Nobody knows what anybody has until showdown.

Hole cards are dealt down, and first action is determined by button location (which is last to act). Each player can stand or hit (with up- or down-cards, see below) as they deem appropriate for their hole cards. Play moves around the table and concludes after the button player acts.

Hole cards are then revealed (typically in action order), best/winning hand(s) identified, and pot awarded accordingly.

It varies by house rules, but usually a true 'blackjack' hand beats a 21 using 3+ cards. It's also up to your house rules how many (if any) hole cards are dealt face-up (I prefer none), whether subsequent 'hit' cards are dealt face-up or down (I prefer down, so busts are hidden until showdown), and whether or not splits or double-downs are allowed (I like allowing blind splits for posting an extra bet, and being able to expose your down cards equalling 11 for no extra bet and getting a single down card, if using the alternate payout rules below).

You can also implement alternate pay-out rules, such as:
-- 3/4 pot to best hand, 1/4 pot to 2nd best hand, blackjack scoops (unless beaten by below)
-- a double-down 11 that hits 21 beats a blackjack

 

[CrazyEddie]

So: blinds, then deal 2 cards, then bet, then optionally hit/stand/etc around the table, then a final round of betting, then showdown?

It's blackjack, not poker

It's worth pointing out the key difference: blackjack is a gambling game, and poker is a vying game. In a gambling game, the players place wagers and then determine the outcome. In a vying game, players continually increase the stakes until all but one have dropped out. In a certain sense, poker has more in common with "the game of chicken" than with blackjack. It's part of what makes poker such a beautiful game.

That's why in BG's ruleset there's no rounds of betting. Everyone just posts a bet and that's that.

Also note that in BG's ruleset there's no way to vary your bet size based on the count, but that's fine; since you're not playing against the house, a high or low count doesn't favor one player over another, and so there's no reason to increase your bets when the deck is in your favor (because it's never in your favor). There's still an opportunity to vary your playing strategy based on the count in order to get an edge on other players that aren't using a counting system. Use a single deck instead of a shoe to let counters have a bigger edge and make the game more skill-based. Use a shoe to make the game feel more classy and casino-like and to make it tougher for the counters.

 

[planetary]

It's worth pointing out the key difference: blackjack is a gambling game, and poker is a vying game.

Very interesting. Thank you!

 

[Lemonzest]

Great idea. It would play fast and be super fun.

 

[FDLmold]

Ken Uston, famous blackjack card counter, wrote a book about it. But in that book, he ALSO has a good description of home-dealt blackjack, at least of a type he was used to with local Italians who invited him to play. If I remember right, dealer rotated, you dealt single deck, you'd put up a stake as house when you were dealer, and the odds were significant enough in favor of dealing that the only good strategy was to max the bank as dealer, and bet small when others dealt. There was also a meta game discussion of how you couldn't really pull that off consistently because others would catch on and wonder why you were only an action player when you dealt.

I'd like that game if dealer had a small advantage, say under 5%. Single deck you'd do well to count aces and bet more when the deck was "richer" in the aces. But obviously not let on that you were doing so.

 

[Stufflymcstuff]

rotating dealers is obviously the easiest way to make things even.

But as a player I’d prefer having a straight forward single deck game from the players perspective. Very beatable but unlikely to be beaten unless they’re quite knowledgeable.

 

[TRAINERSTEVE]

Just have the players play vs each other. Best hand wins all bets, ties push or are split. Dealer can play or not, but is not the 'house'.

Can deal everybody 1-up and 1-down if desired, or even 2-down.

Use a button to change first-to-act on each hand.

Is there anyway to double bets in this set up? I’m thinking I’m going to try some rounds of this in my next game

 

[BGinGA]

Is there anyway to double bets in this set up? I’m thinking I’m going to try some rounds of this in my next game

You can optionally double the bet by splitting dealt downcard pairs, or by taking a single hit card on dealt downcards totaling 11 (see post #15 above). But there is no way to 'force' other players to double their bets.... since you're not playing against the 'house', and playing to win the community pot.

 

[jpd527]

I'll guess I just have to see how well they play and then adjust the rules a bit! thanks for your input

Did you end up hosting black jack? How did they like it?

 

[jpd527]

Was thinking about doing some black jack before the home poker game and just having any "house" profits go toward food and drink for the next poker night.

 

[mnebesny]

Was thinking about doing some black jack before the home poker game and just having any "house" profits go toward food and drink for the next poker night.

Personally I'd avoid letting the house take profits from table games... Depending on exactly which state you live in this can result in you getting charged for running an unlicensed casino. Other's on this forum have had their games raided for much less, so you might want to err on the side of caution, depending on where you live

 

[jpd527]

Personally I'd avoid letting the house take profits from table games... Depending on exactly which state you live in this can result in you getting charged for running an unlicensed casino. Other's on this forum have had their games raided for much less, so you might want to err on the side of caution, depending on where you live

Ah that's a good point; I'll take a look at what the PA rules are for that.

 

[jpd527]

Personally I'd avoid letting the house take profits from table games... Depending on exactly which state you live in this can result in you getting charged for running an unlicensed casino. Other's on this forum have had their games raided for much less, so you might want to err on the side of caution, depending on where you live

Apparently any home poker game, even without a rake, is illegal in PA. The court made an exception for Texas Hold'em because they considered it more skill than chance. Bummer.