COPAQ v KEM v others (3 Viewers)

[stuamurr]

I don't play home games enough to speak on long-term durability. For me it comes down to design (pure preference) and thickness. I prefer bridge size and a bridge deck that can't bridge shuffle well is embarrassing. I have tested some of most of the "big" names listed here this week and have a few first experience impressions:

Personally still feel Copag is king for me. Thickness is perfect; easy shuffle but not too flimsy. Right in the sweet spot. And I like traditional design and Copag manages to pull it off with distinction.

I have warmed up to Kem a bit, but only in bridge. They are the flimisiest cards I have played with but it works for bridge. In poker size, forget about it.

Modiano are OK. I like the different options despite not loving the design or thickness.

Da Vinci were OK.

Fournier are OK. Kinda borderline for me. WSOP Fournier seem slightly thicker, to my disappointment.

Faded Spade let me down big time. I actually really like the design but they are too thick for my taste. Again, bridge sized cards that can't bridge smoothly are a thumbs down.

As it turns out most of these heralded brands actually seem "meh" to me in terms of feel. Copag I had already had impressions on and liked for quite a while, and recently Kem (again, only bridge size). The rest I only acquired this week. That said... the savior for me this week was Desjgn. I am fond of the design and the thickness was just right. Love these cards. Hopefully they hold up well because I see using them very often amongst my fave Copag/Kem decks, especially as I have become fond of 4-color decks lately.

Just my thoughts.

Bridge shuffling cards is generally not appreciated by poker players as the cards are easily seen during the shuffle and suggests an element of 'magic tricks' with the deck. A low tight riffle is far better as the cards cannot be seen during the shuffle process, usually a shuffle consists of a wash, deck reconstructed with the faces outwards thumbing the cards back into a landscape deck, riffle 3 times, three to five strips, another riffle then a final cut onto the cut card, keeping the cards low to the felt throughout.

 

[Defarse]

Yeah, of course.

Ok, don't do that. Wash, riffle, riffle, box, riffle, cut.

 

[davefr]

I don't play home games enough to speak on long-term durability. For me it comes down to design (pure preference) and thickness. I prefer bridge size and a bridge deck that can't bridge shuffle well is embarrassing. I have tested some of most of the "big" names listed here this week and have a few first experience impressions:

Personally still feel Copag is king for me. Thickness is perfect; easy shuffle but not too flimsy. Right in the sweet spot. And I like traditional design and Copag manages to pull it off with distinction.

I have warmed up to Kem a bit, but only in bridge. They are the flimisiest cards I have played with but it works for bridge. In poker size, forget about it.

Modiano are OK. I like the different options despite not loving the design or thickness.

Da Vinci were OK.

Fournier are OK. Kinda borderline for me. WSOP Fournier seem slightly thicker, to my disappointment.

Faded Spade let me down big time. I actually really like the design but they are too thick for my taste. Again, bridge sized cards that can't bridge smoothly are a thumbs down.

As it turns out most of these heralded brands actually seem "meh" to me in terms of feel. Copag I had already had impressions on and liked for quite a while, and recently Kem (again, only bridge size). The rest I only acquired this week. That said... the savior for me this week was Desjgn. I am fond of the design and the thickness was just right. Love these cards. Hopefully they hold up well because I see using them very often amongst my fave Copag/Kem decks, especially as I have become fond of 4-color decks lately.

Just my thoughts.

I agree with your observations. Beware of Copag because they'll fade very quickly starting with the first shuffle. You might give the Fourniers more time to break in. They do produce a really nice crisp riffle shuffle with a bridge ending. I didn't like them at first but they are growing on me. Kems seem a tad limp in the shuffle almost like paper cards that are close to being past their prime but the texture/feel is sure nice.

Desjgn does everything well including a little crispier shuffle then Kems. I have their poker size and just ordered their bridge size with blackjack index. I don't like the 4 color scheme but YMMV.

If you can come across Angel give them a try they are kind of like a cross between Kem and Desjgn. I don't know where to find them and don't know if they do a bridge size.

 

[RagahRagah]

Bridge shuffling cards is generally not appreciated by poker players as the cards are easily seen during the shuffle and suggests an element of 'magic tricks' with the deck. A low tight riffle is far better as the cards cannot be seen during the shuffle process, usually a shuffle consists of a wash, deck reconstructed with the faces outwards thumbing the cards back into a landscape deck , a riffle, three to five strips, another riffle then a final cut onto the cut card, keeping the cards low to the felt throughout.

Lol I realize that. I used to deal for local charity games and of course know how to shuffle and deal properly. But games at home with friends and family tend to be more casual, which is great as the bridge is a lot easier and looser.

 

[upNdown]

Lol I realize that. I used to deal for local charity games and of course know how to shuffle and deal properly. But games at home with friends and family tend to be more casual, which is great as the bridge is a lot easier and looser.

Yeah, I’m no proponent of bridge shuffling, but I choose my cards based on how they’ll work in my home games. And I’m no shuffle nazi - just let guys do their best and move along. And if guys are going to be bridge shuffling, then I have no use for cards that don’t bridge shuffle well. Like Angels.

 

[RagahRagah]

Yeah, I’m no proponent of bridge shuffling, but I choose my cards based on how they’ll work in my home games. And I’m no shuffle nazi - just let guys do their best and move along. And if guys are going to be bridge shuffling, then I have no use for cards that don’t bridge shuffle well. Like Angels.

Ah, so you are saying Angels are also on the stiffer side? I figure at this point there is probably nothing left for me to seek. At this point I'm content with Copag, Desjgn and Kem.

 

[Taghkanic]

I have three sets of COPAG four-color decks which have held up quite well ‍

 

[upNdown]

Ah, so you are saying Angels are also on the stiffer side? I figure at this point there is probably nothing left for me to seek. At this point I'm content with Copag, Desjgn and Kem.

No not at all. They’re lovely-flexy. But they have a different finish on each side and for some reason that makes them really slippery to bridge. It’s weird.

 

[davefr]

Ah, so you are saying Angels are also on the stiffer side? I figure at this point there is probably nothing left for me to seek. At this point I'm content with Copag, Desjgn and Kem.

No they're not stiff. They're very close the KEM in handling but maybe a tad less limp. I like them better than KEM. They are a very nice cards worth trying if you can find them. I found mine used/like new on eBay. I tried finding a source for new cards but couldn't find one. I even tried amazon.jp. Anyone know of where these can be purchased? They are in my top 3. (Angel, Desjgn and KEM)

 

[davefr]

P.S. Here's how you can get some Angel plastic cards but they only come in Poker size/std. index.

1. Go to amazon.co.jp
2. Choose English and choose USD at checkout.
3. Search SPNN601P and SPN633 (these are Angel plastic cards and Angel's website indicates that all their plastic cards are the same material as their Casino cards. These are yellow and red in a really nice plastic case. Each deck is only about $5 USD but shipping is around $17. That's around $26 for 2 decks which is a about the same price as Desjgn and way less than KEM.

I just ordered a couple decks for the fun of it.

 

[KHarp1]

Check this link, there is a great chipper here selling setups. I've bought several setups, great guy:

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/angel-aristo-poker-jumbo-20-oran-blue.101348/

 

[RagahRagah]

I have three sets of COPAG four-color decks which have held up quite well ‍

I'm assuming jumbo index, right? Havet

Thats a pickle
As Cartamundi started to aquire all that is for sale nodays they own like 80% of bussines (not counting China).
They started experimenting producing various brands in various factories. You need to look where the deck branded Cartamundi was produced and than to draw some conclusions.
Cartamundi produced in Spain in Fournier factory will have Fournier features but somentimes they use different stock and technology than preproiatary Fourniers (original Fourniers consist of 3 layers of plastic glued together).
Belgian made Cartamundi are great cards made often from celulose acetate but with ink applied diferently than Kem does it. Cards from belgian variety are great to shuffle but ink wears off faster than from cards made in Spain.
Check RedneckDatabase 2.0 for review of both.

Glossed over this so I figured I would ask if there is any advice for recognizing and tracking down the Belgian stock.

 

[JMC9389]

I'm assuming jumbo index, right? Havet

Glossed over this so I figured I would ask if there is any advice for recognizing and tracking down the Belgian stock.

Pokerstore.nl had the last stock I know of

 

[RagahRagah]

Pokerstore.nl had the last stock I know of

There are a few different kinds but they are all listed as made in Belgium. Is that legit? I know some members have spoke of ways to tell some of them apart.

 

[surfik]

I'm assuming jumbo index, right? Havet

Glossed over this so I figured I would ask if there is any advice for recognizing and tracking down the Belgian stock.

Hard to say...
I have no idea on Neder Cartamundi availability...
I have a new/never played but open deck of Trinidad & Tobago Club Cartamundi.
The fact is that they great to shuffle and deal but unfortunately they lose ink just like Copags.

 

[RagahRagah]

Hard to say...
I have no idea on Neder Cartamundi availability...
I have a new/never played but open deck of Trinidad & Tobago Club Cartamundi.
The fact is that they great to shuffle and deal but unfortunately they lose ink just like Copags.

I guess I'll have to come back to the thread if I ever find something that looks like it fits the bill, lol.

 

[RansomStoddard]

The Cartamundi casino stock linked below is the bit less flexible cousin of the Neder Poker/Tobago cards:

https://www.pokerstore.nl/cartamundi-plastic-casino-playing-cards-blue.html

My sources say that this stock has been discontinued. All further Cartamundi offerings are going to be on their Fournier stock (made in Spain) and their Belgian Copag stock. These propietary Cartamundi cards that they offered up to casinos are going to be unobtanium once the stock linked above runs out.

Just got a box from pokerstore.nl of cartimundi decks, and I was like "why did I buy these?" Had to come back here to find out. now I remember.