Classified Section (1 Viewer)

[Tommy]

There has been some concern raised regarding the classified section. It's no longer just the usual For Sale, Wanted, and For Trade ads. There are raffles, auctions, and now flips.

I'm OK with raffles when the winner is determined by a 3rd party. Ex: State lottery, etc

Auctions seem to be working OK as long as there is a clear set of rules set forth. I do think there should be a standardized, copy and paste, set of rules where you fill in the blanks. Simple and safe.

Flips, when done by the person selling the item, is where the most concern had been raised. This type of selling format will not be permitted anymore. The 'flips' that are posted now in the classifieds will be allowed BUT no more after that.

This has nothing to do with flips done at meetups.

 

[Split]

What about flips for determining who gets to purchase a set? This has been done before to allow people not glued to the refresh button a chance at purchasing premium sets. It seems safe to presume these are okay, as money only changes hands between the winner and seller, but I figure it's best to ask about that here just to make sure there's no ambiguity or misunderstanding.

 

[stocky]

What about flips for determining who gets to purchase a set? This has been done before to allow people not glued to the refresh button a chance at purchasing premium sets. It seems safe to presume these are okay, as money only changes hands between the winner and seller, but I figure it's best to ask about that here just to make sure there's no ambiguity or misunderstanding.

This IMO would still raise the same issues. There's nothing stopping someone running a raffle to determine who can purchase first.

 

[Split]

This IMO would still raise the same issues. There's nothing stopping someone running a raffle to determine who can purchase first.

Valid point that the same thing can be accomplished with a raffle. I don't have a dog in this fight, as I haven't figured out how to sell chips yet (but I've got the buying part all figured out), but I'm not sure that it brings up the same exact issue. I think the general practice observed here is that a seller can sell to whoever the seller chooses for whatever reason. Often they sell to the first taker, but not always. I'm not sure that a free flip for dibs would have the same implications as a pay to flip for chips would. I thought it was worth asking for clarity, as I dislike it when drama (or even the threat of drama) interrupts chipping!

 

[DrStrange]

flipping for "things of value" could easily become criminal gambling.

flipping for who gets to buy a limited supply of chips seems safer, but likely not totally safe.

 

[atomiktoaster]

This IMO would still raise the same issues. There's nothing stopping someone running a raffle to determine who can purchase first.

Sellers shouldn't be solely bound by dibs. They should be able to use any criteria they want to pick among interested buyers, IMO, whether it's the first to reply, giving preference to local chippers to avoid shipping, selling to the person who posts the best joke, giving a deal to a new member/old friend, or rigging a flip.

Flip raffles on the other hand are much too open to corruption.

 

[atomiktoaster]

flipping for "things of value" could easily become criminal gambling.

flipping for who gets to buy a limited supply of chips seems safer, but likely not totally safe.

Hell, get a second account and you can just steal the entry money from everybody.

 

[jja412]

Hell, get a second account and you can just steal the entry money from everybody.

^^This.

I've tried to be wary of this angle several times on raffles, etc...
If you don't know the person, who to say there is not collusion, multiple accounts, or just general thievery?
I like the raffles, but it comes risk, of course.

 

[AK Chip]

Understand. Would not want to do anything to jeopardize the Forum or my chance to be a part of it. Got carried away having fun.

 

[DJ Mack]

Showing my greenness here. What exactly is a flip in the online context?

 

[AK Chip]

Hell, get a second account and you can just steal the entry money from everybody.

I understand your point. But we all have to trust each other with all chips sales. So taking a chance for a few bucks isn't that big of a stretch.

Either way I understand Tommy's side of things. Didn't meen any harm.

 

[bentax1978]

Showing my greenness here. What exactly is a flip in the online context?

In this case, I believe Tommy is referring to deciding the outcome of a contest/sale using a deck of cards and poker hands as opposed to something like a state lottery. The former isn't nearly as transparent as the latter and opens up to accusations of cheating/corruption. When you use a third-party state lottery as a means to determine the outcome, you assign numbers to each participant before the lottery starts. The winner is when selected by the lottery drawings. Unless you have inside information about the outcome of the state lottery, this method makes it impossible to manipulate the outcome. And if you did have inside information on the outcome of the state lottery, there are probably better ways to use that information than winning chips

All that said, as far as I know, there haven't been any issues with regards to any specific flips. I assume this is precautionary and the restriction being put in place is to prevent any potential future issues, by keeping things as fair and transparent as possible for all members.

 

[DJ Mack]

I figured it was something like that - makes sense, thanks. I may want to start moving some items from my collection at some point and certainly don't want to run afoul of the rules!

 

[atomiktoaster]

I understand your point. But we all have to trust each other with all chips sales. So taking a chance for a few bucks isn't that big of a stretch.

Either way I understand Tommy's side of things. Didn't meen any harm.

Yeah, there's a huge level of trust, but if a regular sale goes bad, at least the buyer will figure that out. There's no way to know if something unsavory happened with a flip. Nobody thinks anything bad has happened so far or was intended, but it's a bad idea to let an obvious moral hazard go on unchecked.

 

[links_slayer]

Nobody thinks anything bad has happened so far or was intended,

The handful of people that sent me messages about Harley winning my secondary prize pool Rounders raffle flip would strongly disagree with you on this.

 

[mummel]

Let Tommy run the RNGs and decide who wins raffles?

 

[atomiktoaster]

The handful of people that sent me messages about Harley winning my secondary prize pool Rounders raffle flip would strongly disagree with you on this.

Ugh, lame... it's a charity flip. Unless you're a fan of cancer, it's EV+ already.

Let Tommy run the RNGs and decide who wins raffles?

I don't think we want to put any more stuff on Tommy's plate... Plus it just puts him in the crosshairs for drama.

 

[links_slayer]

Ugh, lame... it's a charity flip.

I know...I probably shouldn't have let this bother me as much as it did.

Unless you're a fan of cancer, it's EV+ already.

 

[mummel]

Ugh, lame... it's a charity flip. Unless you're a fan of cancer, it's EV+ already.



I don't think we want to put any more stuff on Tommy's plate... Plus it just puts him in the crosshairs for drama.

What about an RNG script you could embed in a thread (like a poll), that activates at a specific time, that cant be changed or edited?

 

[bentax1978]

What about an RNG script you could embed in a thread (like a poll), that activates at a specific time, that cant be changed or edited?

What about using a state lottery that makes it 100% transparent and impossible to manipulate?




Again, for the record, I don't think there has been any manipulation or cheating, nor did I have anything to do with bringing this issue to Tommy's attention. But I also understand the argument, and support Tommy's decision that things need to be as transparent as possible for the good of the site and its members.

 

[AK Chip]

Best to just remove it from The Forum. Raffles seem to work just fine allowing a possibility for someone to get a set of chips that they normally wouldn't have a shot at.

 

[mummel]

What about using a state lottery that makes it 100% transparent and impossible to manipulate?




Again, for the record, I don't think there has been any manipulation or cheating, nor did I have anything to do with bringing this issue to Tommy's attention. But I also understand the argument, and support Tommy's decision that things need to be as transparent as possible for the good of the site and its members.

NM, missed this. Makes total sense.

 

[MegaTon44]

The handful of people that sent me messages about Harley winning my secondary prize pool Rounders raffle flip would strongly disagree with you on this.

That's a good point. If I recall correctly, this was the final flip. Such horseshit. The fix is in.....

 

[slisk250]

What about an RNG script you could embed in a thread (like a poll), that activates at a specific time, that cant be changed or edited?

How about we just stick to straight sales and send the rest to eBay?

 

[mummel]

NM, missed this. Makes total sense.

 

[Psypher1000]

Glad to see flips go. I trust most people doing flips here are on the up-and-up, but it's also easy for me to see the risk there. I'd prefer to see auctions leave as well, but I can't think of any good reason my preference should dictate activity here - and it may backfire on me if I ever choose to auction something for some reason.

And since this is the first thing that popped in my mind - albeit completely in jest - when reading the OP, @Tommy....flip you!

 

[luckbox]

Best to just remove it from The Forum. Raffles seem to work just fine allowing a possibility for someone to get a set of chips that they normally wouldn't have a shot at.

raffles are a win win for everyone, great opportunity for a seller to get his price and for little money you could be a winner, i think they are a great and hope they continue!

the trust factor here is a no brainer, no need to question if someone is going to take all the raffle money and skip town, nobody here is that stupid .....

 

[mummel]

raffles are a win win for everyone, great opportunity for a seller to get his price and for little money you could be a winner, i think they are a great and hope they continue!

the trust factor here is a no brainer, no need to question if someone is going to take all the raffle money and skip town, nobody here is that stupid .....

Says the guy with a Trump icon (this is in jest, a lot of people can get their panties in a knot).

 

[luckbox]

Says the guy with a Trump icon (this is in jest, a lot of people can get their panties in a knot).

i was going to add in my last sentence "even if they vote for hillary" but i figured someone would go to the Trump thing, its all good (y) :thumbsup:

 

[abby99]

I think that auctions are particularly useful for chips that are in high demand, rarely come to market, and are difficult to price. Other than that, the usual offers to sell work just fine, IMO.