Chip breakdown for my new cash and tourney sets (2 Viewers)

[ramo_and]

Hi,

I'm planning to get the Royals 43 mm for a cash and tourney set. We typically play 4-8 people but I would like the tourney set to stretch for potential larger tournaments in the future. For cash games we play microstakes around $5 - $10 buyin in SEK. Will use the 25C as 0.25 SEK, $1 as 1 SEK and $5 as 5 SEK.

I've understood that many advocates for 2 completely different sets for cash games and tournaments. But we never play both cash and tourney on the same night so I don't think it will be a problem. Having same type of chips also allows for a bit more flexibilty, using the $25 for cash games as well, if needed.


Tournament - 600 chips

$25 x 150
$100 x 150
$500 x 125
$1000 x 125
$5000 x 50

Starting stack: 12/12/7/5

I prefer 7/5 over 5/6 when it comes to $500 and $1000 chips since it gives even piles of 12. Furthermore, I love the design of the $500 Royal chips so don't mind having more of them in play.

If I some time would do a large tourment of up to 18 player (9x2 or 6x3 tables) the starting stack would be 8/8/6/6. Each player can also get 1 rebuy with high demons chips.


Cash game - 400 chips

25C x 125
$1 x 150
$5 x 125

Starting stack: 20/20/5 or 20/20/15 (depending on buy-in)

So, my question is if you think this is a good breakdown? And if's a good amount of chips or a bit overkill for 4-8 people (occasionally 10 maybe). I've also though of getting a blit less chips - 500 for tournament (125/125/125/100/25) and 300 for cash game (100/100/100).

 

[GetUrShineBox]

The tournament breakdown seems good as long as you don’t get tons of rebuys and do add ons. You want to have enough 1k’s and 5k’s to color up all the chips you will have in play towards the end of the tournament. So figure out the max rebuys/add ons you might have and double check your 1k’s and 5k’s.

The cash game chips seem short. If you’re giving stacks of 20/20/15 and have 8 players that’s
160/160/120 for just the initial buy in then you need enough to cover rebuys throughout the night. For The rebuys you can just use more $5’s. The reason we say dont use $25’s in both sets is for security reasons. If someone playing in a tournament steals a $25 chip and then the next week introduces it into cash game your bank will get all screwed up. If I were you I get a bunch more $5’s and/or pick a chip you like best like the 25k royal but get it blank, get labels, and make them into $20’s for the cash game.

Good luck!

 

[ramo_and]

I doubt that my friends will do that but I'm starting to like the idea of two different sets. Pokershop.de actually have the blue $25K as $10 so I could go for that. Not ideal, but a lot less work than ordering blanks and a $20 custom label

I might go up to 500 chips for cash games. I think we'll rarely play more than 6 players, cause then we mostly play tournamnets since my friends likes it a bit more than cash games.

How about this breakdown for 500 chips?

Cash game - 500 chips

25C x 150
$1 x 200
$5 x 100
$10 x 50

 

[Taghkanic]

The tournament breakdown seems good as long as you don’t get tons of rebuys and do add ons. You want to have enough 1k’s and 5k’s to color up all the chips you will have in play towards the end of the tournament. So figure out the max rebuys/add ons you might have and double check your 1k’s and 5k’s.

The cash game chips seem short. If you’re giving stacks of 20/20/15 and have 8 players that’s
160/160/120 for just the initial buy in then you need enough to cover rebuys throughout the night. For The rebuys you can just use more $5’s. The reason we say dont use $25’s in both sets is for security reasons. If someone playing in a tournament steals a $25 chip and then the next week introduces it into cash game your bank will get all screwed up. If I were you I get a bunch more $5’s and/or pick a chip you like best like the 25k royal but get it blank, get labels, and make them into $20’s for the cash game.

Good luck!

Could you get a $20 denom in the Royals? Some of those would allow you to stretch the cash bank a lot, without overlapping with the tourney set.

If no $20s can be had, I’d suggest using the 25s exclusively for cash, then build a T100 tourney set instead (i.e., smallest tourney chip is 100).

 

[GetUrShineBox]

Could you get a $20 denom in the Royals? Some of those would allow you to stretch the cash bank a lot, without overlapping with the tourney set.

If no $20s can be had, I’d suggest using the 25s exclusively for cash, then build a T100 tourney set instead (i.e., smallest tourney chip is 100).

You can buy blank royals and label as $20.
Or yes as you stated go T100. Also a great call. Either way you can’t go wrong

 

[ramo_and]

Could you get a $20 denom in the Royals? Some of those would allow you to stretch the cash bank a lot, without overlapping with the tourney set.

If no $20s can be had, I’d suggest using the 25s exclusively for cash, then build a T100 tourney set instead (i.e., smallest tourney chip is 100).

Good point but I think I prefer the t25 base since that's what were used to now.

You can buy blank royals and label as $20.
Or yes as you stated go T100. Also a great call. Either way you can’t go wrong

Where could I get that? Sold out on Apache and pokershop.de don't sell them.

 

[GetUrShineBox]

You can buy the labeled ones and remove the existing label and relabel as well. More work but still same cost and result.

 

[Eriks]

+1 for 20/25 cash chip. A ten is a pretty useless companion to a .25/1/5 set

 

[Beakertwang]

I doubt that my friends will do that but I'm starting to like the idea of two different sets. Pokershop.de actually have the blue $25K as $10 so I could go for that. Not ideal, but a lot less work than ordering blanks and a $20 custom label

I might go up to 500 chips for cash games. I think we'll rarely play more than 6 players, cause then we mostly play tournamnets since my friends likes it a bit more than cash games.

How about this breakdown for 500 chips?

Cash game - 500 chips

25C x 150
$1 x 200
$5 x 100
$10 x 50

This isn’t bad, but with 6 or 7 players, 100 blind chips would be more than enough. I think you can “future-proof” your set like this:

25¢ x 100
$1 x 200
$5 x 150
$20/25 x 50

This gives you a total of $1975 or $2225.

 

[Taghkanic]

RE.: The overlapping 25s:

While you are not hosting tourneys and cash games on the same night, the concern I’ve heard people raise in the past is the possibility of someone palming 25s from the tourney close to when you color up, at which point they have relatively little value, to save them for a future cash game.

However, you probably would notice that when you put the chips away from the tourney, and find barrels to be short.

And in a cash game of these stakes, someone suddenly having an extra 25-100 bucks in their stack would stick out quite a bit.

So maybe it’s not such an issue. Still, on general principle plus the fact that MOAR chips is better, the idea of $20s for the cash set is how I’d go if feasible.

As far as moving to T100 from a T25 game, I’ve gone the opposite direction (T100 > T25) and my regs adjusted quite quickly.

 

[KHarp1]

Move to T100

 

[ramo_and]

You can buy the labeled ones and remove the existing label and relabel as well. More work but still same cost and result.

That might be an option. Where can I get the custom Royal labels?

 

[ramo_and]

+1 for 20/25 cash chip. A ten is a pretty useless companion to a .25/1/5 set

I agree that a $20 would be a better option. One thing I don't really get though, is why people seem to be so against the $10 chips in general. If you divide a T25 set with 100 you get exactly .25/1/5/10.

 

[Eriks]

I agree that a $20 would be a better option. One thing I don't really get though, is why people seem to be so against the $10 chips in general. If you divide a T25 set with 100 you get exactly .25/1/5/10.

Nothing against a ten specifically but having denoms too close to each other isn’t an efficient way of building a set.

If you want a ten, I’d go 0.5/2/10/50. But since that’s not the standard way, suggestions are 0.25/1/5/20 (or 25)

 

[ramo_and]

Nothing against a ten specifically but having denoms too close to each other isn’t an efficient way of building a set.

If you want a ten, I’d go 0.5/2/10/50. But since that’s not the standard way, suggestions are 0.25/1/5/20 (or 25)

I think a 20 would be better indeed. I'll see if I can manage to get the 20 labels. Otherwise, it might be the 10.

This was more a reflecting over the standard denominations 0.25/1/5/20 vs 25/100/500/1000. Looking at it from a logic perspective, it would make sense to have a 2000 chip in a T25 tourney set.

 

[Eriks]

Looking at it from a logic perspective, it would make sense to have a 2000 chip in a T25 tourney set

Certainly. Using the same logic, you are correct. Some do opt for a T2000 chip in their tourney sets, but most do the standard yet illogical (going by the 4-5x rule) T500 and T1000. I suppose it’s a matter of familiarity and how it’s traditionally been done. Also a T2000 or even a T2500 just feels off to me.

In comparison, there is nothing weird about having a 20 or 25 chip, so there are neither traditional nor practical reasons to have a 10 (when also using a 5).

Whatever floats your boat though. Really the only thing that matters about your set and your game is that you and your players are happy with it. It’s just that the collective knowledge on the forum about these things is pretty solid and is based on a ton of experience. I think it would be foolish not to listen to it when building a set.

 

[BGinGA]

A couple of observations:

Game security can be compromised accidentally -- it doesn't need to include theft or ill-will intentions. A chip lost accidentally and unnoticed (on the floor, in a chair, or under the rail) can be found much later by someone else (thinking it is legitimately theirs), now making the cash bank off at the end of the night. Even if you KNOW that chips are missing, the set is now compromised the next time it is used. The risk just isn't worth it. Get $20s (or different $25s) for cash, or start with T100 for tournaments. Even using dedicated (but inefficient) cash set $10s would be better than having 25s do double-duty.

A 12/12/5/6 starting stack is a better and more efficient distribution than 1212/7/5. It puts adequate chips in play, and when they are needed. You don't need the extra T500s, but you will need those extra T1000s (and even more, added during the color-ups). Smoother game play trumps an artificial "three equal sized piles of 12 chips" every time. Those "pretty" stacks disappear after the very first hand, but improved game play will be present for the duration of the tournament.

 

[ramo_and]

This is where I'm at now:

Tournament - 600 chips

$25 x 145
$100 x 145
$500 x 120
$1000 x 145
$5000 x 45

Starting stack: 12/12/5/6

This should be sufficient for 12 players and could stretch to 18 players with a starting stack of 8/8/6/6 and max 1 rebuy.


Cash game - 500 chips

25C x 150
$1 x 150
$5 x 100
$10 x 100 (Possibly relabel to $20)

Starting stack: 20/20/5

Considering the starting stack and the fact that blinds are 0.25 and 0.50, it seems reasonable to have the same amount of 25C as $1 chips. I've seen others recommend that as well. For cash games we will be less players than tournaments, maybe around 4-5. But I want to make sure the set could work for 6-8 players.

 

[Colquhoun]

This is where I'm at now:

Tournament - 600 chips

$25 x 145
$100 x 145
$500 x 120
$1000 x 145
$5000 x 45

Starting stack: 12/12/5/6

This should be sufficient for 12 players and could stretch to 18 players with a starting stack of 8/8/6/6 and max 1 rebuy.


Cash game - 500 chips

25C x 150
$1 x 150
$5 x 100
$10 x 100 (Possibly relabel to $20)

Starting stack: 20/20/5

Considering the starting stack and the fact that blinds are 0.25 and 0.50, it seems reasonable to have the same amount of 25C as $1 chips. I've seen others recommend that as well. For cash games we will be less players than tournaments, maybe around 4-5. But I want to make sure the set could work for 6-8 players.

You probably dont need that many T500.
By adjusting the tournament numbers just slightly, you can get 2 full tables with a 600 chip set.
T25 - 160
T100 - 160
T500 - 80
T1000 - 140
T5000 - 80

Starting stacks for 1 table at 12/12/5/7 or 2 table at 8/8/4/7

 

[Eriks]

You probably dont need that many T500.
By adjusting the tournament numbers just slightly, you can get 2 full tables with a 600 chip set.
T25 - 160
T100 - 160
T500 - 80
T1000 - 140
T5000 - 80

Starting stacks for 1 table at 12/12/5/7 or 2 table at 8/8/4/7

I fully agree with this, however, aren’t the Royals typically sold in units of 25?

Cash game - 500 chips

25C x 150
$1 x 150
$5 x 100
$10 x 100 (Possibly relabel to $20)

Starting stack: 20/20/5

Considering the starting stack and the fact that blinds are 0.25 and 0.50, it seems reasonable to have the same amount of 25C as $1 chips. I've seen others recommend that as well. For cash games we will be less players than tournaments, maybe around 4-5. But I want to make sure the set could work for 6-8 players.

500 chips feel a bit short for cash. It’s easily enough for 4-5 players but I wouldn’t want to limit myself. 700 is the perfect number as far as I’m concerned. I know many go well beyond that even, but that’s really not necessary (imo).

I would like to get more 1s and 5s and by now you know how I feel about 10 vs 20/25. If keeping to a 500 set, I would probably get a 50c instead of a 25c and go 0.5/0.5 and limit to 1 rack of those to be able to get more 1s and/or 5s.

 

[KHarp1]

It seems you're dead set on getting things a certain way, so I'm not sure what the discussion is about here? There are multiple resources here for maximizing your chip count. A $10 really does seem like a waste. Why not a $25 chip? You would need far fewer of those. Ones and fives can be changed at the table. Oh, wait, you're set on getting the same cash and tournament set, so, you really can't use the same $25.

I guess this is a situation of buy whatever you're dead set on, play with it for a while, then come back and buy another set. That's what a lot of us have done as well.

 

[Gunnar]

So in different currencies, 25, 100, 500, 1000, is a standard cash set. I don´t really see all the need for the hate on the 10$, sure there are ways to get more for the money and optimize.
Downside of having 25$ instead of 10$ is that it is less likely to hit the felt. Downside of 10$ is that the bank is lower. But I think we can all agree on, that choosing the sub optimal distribution of chips to get them more into play or to have a larger set is something most of us are guilty of already

 

[Bacon Dad]

Sounds like you need to get some cheap plastic 10s and 25s and run a game or five and see which denom works better for you. Then buy the actual 25 chip (sorry, I mean 10) and enjoy what you have. Good luck!

 

[Beakertwang]

it would make sense to have a 2000 chip in a T25 tourney set.

I agree. However, in practice it doesn't work as well as one might hope. Players with experience are so used to the 100/500/1000 progression, that it often leads to confusion, especially if the T2000 is yellow, which is the typical color for a T1000.

 

[ramo_and]

It seems you're dead set on getting things a certain way

Not really. There are many things to consider. What I'm used play with, my friends wanting as much chips as possible (cause they think it's more fun), expertise on this forum for efficient game play, other recommendations on e.g. Youtube.

The only thing I'm set on is getting the Royals from pokershop.de. They're only available in certain denominations: 0.25, 1, 5, 10, 25, 100, 500, 1000, 5000, 100.000. The original 25.000 is relabeled to a 10. If I can buy only $20 labels from Apache I might do that. However, I've understood min order value is something like $225 outside U.S.

I guess this is a situation of buy whatever you're dead set on, play with it for a while, then come back and buy another set. That's what a lot of us have done as well.

Well, I'm not planning to get more sets. Getting a separate tourney and cash set with Royal 43 mm chips is already quite an investment. I would like to buy a set that lasts a long time. That's why I want to think it through thoroughly.

 

[BGinGA]

I'm not planning to get more sets.

Well, those are famous last words. Same thing I said nearly 20 years and over 72 sets ago.

Talk to me again in a year.

 

[ramo_and]

This isn’t bad, but with 6 or 7 players, 100 blind chips would be more than enough. I think you can “future-proof” your set like this:

25¢ x 100
$1 x 200
$5 x 150
$20/25 x 50

This gives you a total of $1975 or $2225.

With this breakdown, would you recommend rebuys with $1s and $5s?

 

[Beakertwang]

With this breakdown, would you recommend rebuys with $1s and $5s?

Let’s assume buy-ins are $50. First 5 players get 20 x 25¢, 20 x 1$, and 5 x $5. Next buy-ins and rebuys get 20 x $1 and 6 x $5, and make change at the table. When all the $1’s are in play, subsequent rebuys are in $5’s.

 

[Gbaby]

For my 25c/50c , usually 7-9 handed and plays like 1/2 even 2/5 by the end of the night , my chips set is only 500 chips
.25 x 100
$1 x 100
$5 x 200
$25 x 80
$100 x 20

If it’s 1/2 , obviously I get rid of the .25c chips and add on an extra rack of $5s

 

[Colquhoun]

For the cash game, you also don’t need to focus solely on full buy-ins. Players should be able to add on to their stack, up to the buy-in amount, at any time between hands.