Casino Cash Game $1/$2

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#1
Been playing about 45min with very little presence at the table. Just limped a couple times with a few people to see the flop. So far I am just seen as a tight player with no skills (quite possibly true!). Anyway.... 2nd to act and I raise it to $12 pre-flop with :6c::8c: ( I was getting bored)
- I have $285
- Villain #1, 65 year old lady to my right. She's in a lot of pots and has a wide range. She over bets a lot too. She has $400
- Villain #2, 25 year old guy to my left. He's a real gambler and is also in a lot of pots. He has $350

V2 calls and V1 calls

FLOP - :8h::5c::5d:

V1 bets out $20 - I call - V2 calls

Turn - :2c:

V1 bets out $60................ Now what should I do??
 
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#2
I think the correct move with a pair and a flush draw would usually be to call? but the donk bet usually indicates a more marginal hand, so maybe he’s more likely to have an 8 or some medium pocket pair than a 5, so you are likely behind most of the time.

I’d be tempted to re raise and see if you can’t get him to fold an 8, but also knowing you’ve got some equity if he does call.

If you call and hit your flush, are you going to get a call out of him? Would you want to jam even if you do, given that the boards paired?

I wanna say raise, but I might be wrong

Paging @DrStrange
 
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#3
If I hit my flush, V1 is first to act.

I would not Jam with a weak flush, but how much to bet would be another discussion.
 
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#4
Sorry my bad, I totally misread the flop action and got myself confused.

I suppose it’s even more awkward given that v2 is still in the hand.

I wouldn’t be loving this spot at all.

Call and evaluate on the river?
 
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#5
I called and V2 called.

My thoughts.....
Possible hands are A5, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 10 10, 99. I just don’t see 55, 22 or 88. However, with V2 just calling, anything is possible.

River- :2h:

V1 bets $120
 

DrStrange

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#6
Just in from Tuesday night poker . . .

First, slow down the thread. Well slow down if you want any discussion of the hand.

Second, don't skip decision points. In my mind the critical street was preflop and we just passed right over that.

Third, Hero's observation that he is bored and making decisions he thinks are wrong, but what the hell let's do them anyway means he should rack up and go do something else.

But that didn't happen. hero plays this hand.

Preflop is an easy fold. Speculative hand in bad position. I rate fold as the only acceptable option. Like Hero said - he is bored and fired away anyway. If the villain reads said the table was fit/fold post flop maybe Hero can plan on a high c-bet win rate. But these villains seem like just the wrong sort to get into a big pot playing 86s. Not that Hero can't win the hand, but now he needs to actually hit the flop and hope the villains will chase / bluff with worse.

Ok, so Hero raised and ends up with a $36 pot (after rake) and a $273 stack ----> SPR 7+. Just at the inflection point for top pair hands and speculative hands. Knowing only this, we know the hand is likely to prove difficult and advantage goes to the loose aggressive players.

First to act villain bets $20 into $36 (55% pot). First choice is fold. Stacks are deep, hero is in a RIO trap. Let's not have things get worse.

Second choice is raise here and fold to any re-raise.. Maybe Hero can get a better top pair hand to fold. Maybe hero can get gut shots and the like to fold. At least hero might be able to buy position and blow V2 off the hand. These villains might prove to be unbluffable and also capable of bluffing Hero with all sorts of garbage. While an observant villain might put Hero on an over pair, an unobservant villain might not have even given a thought to Hero's holdings. If Hero is raising, that would be the last chip I put in the pot unimproved.

Calling seems like my last choice.

The turn. $96ish in the pot. Effective stacks are $253. hero is not pot committed. V1 leads out again with $60 into a $96 pot (63% pot). Now folding becomes more urgent. Hero could be drawing very thin here - maybe winning only with an eight on the river. Hero should fear V2 as well. A turn raise with trips is going to force hero to fold. The flush draw offers hope, perhaps false hope. But even if the flush draw is good, hero is a ~1-4 dog and facing a RIO risk.

And now the river. $276 in the pot, effective stacks are $193. V1 bets $120 (62% pot). Hero has no fold equity vs V1 with a $63 all-in jam left behind. Hero has expended a third of his stack holding top pair / no kicker. He needs to find both villains with quite weak hands in order to win the pot. I am not sure which of the villains scare me the most. V1 who has taken a bet, bet, bet line with fairly consistent value sizing - so what do we think she has in her range that hero can beat? Or V2 who has taken a call / call / call line? Aside from 76, V2 only has big value hands. Again, folding seems like the best choice.

It could happen that both V1 and V2 are playing foolish / stupid poker and Hero is the winner. But most likely not. Salvage what can be saved by folding and then rack up and leave.

TL:RD. Rack up, go home. Fold preflop, fold flop, fold turn, fold river. Go home. Winning the pot doesn't mean well played.

DrStrange
 
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#7
I'm on board with DrStrange. I could maybe, possibly see playing this preflop if I have a very strong grip on my villains, and maybe consider a call on the flop under the same circumstances, but that's not the case here. With someone who is playing for the gambooooool, you gotta play solid value hands. The extra EV you get for hands like 86s disappears when you can't really steal pots post-flop. Top pair on that flop is either slightly ahead or absolutely crushed most of the time.

On the turn it's a no-question insta-fold. There are just too many ways to be badly beaten or even drawing dead. On the river, you're ahead of some small, single-digit percent of villains' combined ranges. Fold there too.

It's a huge leak to play hands because you're bored. Have a reason for getting involved, or don't get involved.
 
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#9
Anyway.... I knew the consensus would be not to have played at all. But Like I said...folding for 45 minutes wasn't feeling fun. I folded the river for the big bet. She ended up having 10-5 off.

For the record, I made $159 profit in 3 hrs. So I still hit my goal.
 
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#10
Anyway.... I knew the consensus would be not to have played at all. But Like I said...folding for 45 minutes wasn't feeling fun. I folded the river for the big bet. She ended up having 10-5 off.

For the record, I made $159 profit in 3 hrs. So I still hit my goal.
It would have been $251 profit if you'd folded and racked up. ;)

If you're playing to have fun and the money doesn't matter, then do what you want. I'll be the first to admit that I've played on in sessions when I knew I wasn't 100% and should have already been out the door.

But if you're playing to win, boredom tilt will destroy your profitability.
 

DRacula

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#18
Just limped a couple times with a few people to see the flop.
Bad

I raise it to $12 pre-flop with :6c::8c: ( I was getting bored)
Awful

Legit hand, not good enough to be opening UTG+1
As played, your OOP with a super marginal hand, which is a horribly difficult spot. I'd probably call/fold if you miss the river, or opt to jam if I sense weakness.

Biggest takeaway for sure is stop limping, and if you are going to speculate do it from the later positions.
 
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