Can the dealer/floor intervene when somebody continually flashes their cards? (1 Viewer)

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I've seen a few threads recently and over the years where people ask WWYD when the guy next to you (drunk or just a sloppy peeker) keeps flashing their cards to you. The most common answer I see is "I'd warn them once." Apologies for being the moral police, but if you know what the guy next to you has on every hand, you've got an advantage over the rest of the table, and probably not an insignificant one. And I'm pretty sure that's cheating. So I guess I'm asking if anybody has ever seen the dealer or floor intervene in a situation like that.
 
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Have not. But also if you are seeing the cards most likely someone else on the other side or even the person next to you is as well. And in reality if the person is that bad that after getting a warning about it and they keep doing it, they will be broke and gone before long so it won’t matter much.
 
Have not. But also if you are seeing the cards most likely someone else on the other side or even the person next to you is as well. And in reality if the person is that bad that after getting a warning about it and they keep doing it, they will be broke and gone before long so it won’t matter much.
Get more upset w dealers…
 
I've seen a few threads recently and over the years where people ask WWYD when the guy next to you (drunk or just a sloppy peeker) keeps flashing their cards to you. The most common answer I see is "I'd warn them once." I don't mean to be the moral police, but if you know what the guy next to you has on every hand, you've got an advantage over the rest of the table, and probably not an insignificant one. And I'm pretty sure that's cheating. So I guess I'm asking if anybody has ever seen the dealer or floor intervene in a situation like that.
I have struggled with this over the years.

Yes, knowing someone else's cards over the course of a hand offers you an unfair advantage over the rest of the players.

But to call this cheating is a step too far. Cheating takes intent, and we're talking about a situation that was foisted upon the player, who has presumably made some good-faith effort to prevent the issue.

Moreover, what is the alternative?

We can try to not look at the cards, but some players make this virtually impossible, and of course others may be seeing them anyway. Moreover, it's unfair to have to sit in a less-comfortable position hand after hand, or even avert our eyes, which may cause us to miss out on important details happening in that direction. And folding our own hand to protect the flasher is frankly madness.

So we arrive at the situation where we will see the perpetual flasher's cards, at least sometimes, despite our best efforts. We can't reasonably avoid it. What now?

This is where I have trouble. If, in the interest of equal information, we announce his cards to the table, this is a whole new problem. It's not like he'll get new cards like he would for a dealer error. Now the flasher has an effectively unplayable hand. For this to happen once would suck. For it to happen repeatedly is unacceptable.

But we, the hapless player stuck next to the flasher, are now in possession of extremely valuable information that the rest of the table doesn't have. What to do?

I guess we could announce that we saw the player's cards but not say what they were (until the player is out of the hand, assuming we're still in). It strikes a middle ground, and in fact it seems like the only middle ground that doesn't unfairly disenfranchise anyone.

It may humiliate the flasher if you have to say this over and over, but I think that's called for. He's not protecting his hand in a way that puts everyone around him in a predicament. If his discomfort is necessary to the rest of the table overcoming the problem he has created, then let him be uncomfortable.

All this said, I think there is a case for the floor to become involved, just as there would be if the player were intentionally flashing cards to active players. The reason why it's a problem is the same, really.
 
I've seen a few threads recently and over the years where people ask WWYD when the guy next to you (drunk or just a sloppy peeker) keeps flashing their cards to you. The most common answer I see is "I'd warn them once." Apologies for being the moral police, but if you know what the guy next to you has on every hand, you've got an advantage over the rest of the table, and probably not an insignificant one. And I'm pretty sure that's cheating. So I guess I'm asking if anybody has ever seen the dealer or floor intervene in a situation like that.

If you alert the whole table that you are getting an unwanted view his cards every hand, and it still continues, I’d say the burden has shifted to your opponents to call the floor, and is no longer your responsibility.
 
If you alert the table you are seeing his cards every hand, and it still continues, I’d say the burden has shifted to your opponents to call the floor, away from you.
Yeah that makes sense. But like @Jimulacrum indicated, how often is that actually going to happen? I've seen this happen most frequently with an old guy, not a drunk. And I'll definitely tell him at least the first time. But I don't want to shame the old guy by repeating it or announcing it to the table. Its an uncomfortable situation.
 
"Please protect your hand sir, I & others can see your cards". One time warning announced to the entire table. Anything after that is a self correcting error.

And if I am hosting or that person is a good friend of mine, and the player continues to be lazy with his card protection I would ask him to remove themself from the game for his own protection. And if they refused I would probably force them. Nobody should want to take money from a player like that. But if I'm at a casino or a strange game then I'll stick to the announce warning and wait for the inevitable.
 
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Maybe I should have had more coffee today, but I'm not sure what this means.

A player that doesn't protect their hand will usually not last long in the game and go broke soon enough, therefore a self correcting error.

Of course ultimately the floor/host should protect the player from himself and the game from the possibility of collusion.
 
I’m in agreement with a lot of your takes but I’d be highly offended if someone accused me of cheating because the person next to me doesn’t protect their hand and I’ve informed the offender and the table.

At that point I’ve done all I can do. And I’m not removing myself from that table or game because of someone else’s action or rather inaction.
 
I’m in agreement with a lot of your takes but I’d be highly offended if someone accused me of cheating because the person next to me doesn’t protect their hand and I’ve informed the offender and the table.

At that point I’ve done all I can do. And I’m not removing myself from that table or game because of someone else’s action or rather inaction.
I’m not exactly comfortable calling you a cheater in that situation. But I’m not comfortable with anything about this situation.
You would agree you have an unfair advantage, right? Whether or not that’s cheating may be a matter of semantics.
I understand the reasoning that if it isn’t a situation you caused, you shouldn’t be blamed for it. But I also have to look at it from that other guy’s perspective.

Suppose you and I played a 3-hour session at the same table. And I ran hot and won a few buyins. And you lost a couple of buyins. And I beat you in a few big hands.

If, after the session, you found out that I had seen every card the guy next to me held, are you telling me you wouldn’t feel cheated?
 
I’m not exactly comfortable calling you a cheater in that situation. But I’m not comfortable with anything about this situation.
You would agree you have an unfair advantage, right? Whether or not that’s cheating may be a matter of semantics.
I understand the reasoning that if it isn’t a situation you caused, you shouldn’t be blamed for it. But I also have to look at it from that other guy’s perspective.

Suppose you and I played a 3-hour session at the same table. And I ran hot and won a few buyins. And you lost a couple of buyins. And I beat you in a few big hands.

If, after the session, you found out that I had seen every card the guy next to me held, are you telling me you wouldn’t feel cheated?
Well did you tell the person he was exposing his cards and inform the table of the fact? If so I willing played knowing you had more information than I did.

If you didn’t tell me until after the game broke then yeah I’d be upset.

There is no best answer or correct answer in this situation Im afraid. As we’ve seen, lots of different responses on how people would handle it.

As for me, first time he did it I’d tell him, second time I’d inform the table. After that it’s no longer my problem. Either he can fix the issue or the table can fix it. Not much else I can do since I’m not leaving because of the flasher.
 
You guys need to drink more. I’m usually too fucked up to even see that far.

If, after the session, you found out that I had seen every card the guy next to me held, are you telling me you wouldn’t feel cheated?

As for me, first time he did it I’d tell him, second time I’d inform the table.
Seriously though, any problem with just calling them out every time you see their cards? - not calling out the person, calling out the cards they hold - give the same info to the whole table as soon as you have it. Seems fair.
 
I’m not exactly comfortable calling you a cheater in that situation. But I’m not comfortable with anything about this situation.
You would agree you have an unfair advantage, right? Whether or not that’s cheating may be a matter of semantics.
I understand the reasoning that if it isn’t a situation you caused, you shouldn’t be blamed for it. But I also have to look at it from that other guy’s perspective.

Suppose you and I played a 3-hour session at the same table. And I ran hot and won a few buyins. And you lost a couple of buyins. And I beat you in a few big hands.

If, after the session, you found out that I had seen every card the guy next to me held, are you telling me you wouldn’t feel cheated?
I completely agree with you, and it wouldn't be wrong to feel cheated there. It is genuinely unfair. This is what makes it such a tough spot.

This is why my solution calls for the person who sees the cards to let the table know that he has seen them (but not what they are, until flasher is out). I feel it's really the best you can do in the given situation.

It doesn't solve the immediate unfairness—which is regrettably unsolvable without the greater unfairness of nuking the flasher's hand—but it does get as close as possible without crossing that line. Done consistently, it also puts the solution to the problem in motion, as no one is going to tolerate this situation for long.

Unfortunately, it's a big ask of the player who's seeing the flashed cards. It's a very awkward thing to have to do.

Beyond how to get through the individual hand, maybe take a moment between hands to get the flasher to move to a seat that has minimal risk of exposure, like at the ends of the table or next to the dealer.

Anything beyond that would be in the territory of 86ing the flasher, same as you'd remove anyone else who can't handle himself well enough to maintain proper conduct for the game. I would rather that not happen if it's not necessary, but I could imagine cases where it is.
 
Seriously though, any problem with just calling them out every time you see their cards? - not calling out the person, calling out the cards they hold - give the same info to the whole table as soon as you have it. Seems fair.

^This is the way.
 
If the person does not correct the problem they have created, and the dealer or table won’t act to prevent it, and they have already gotten three heads-ups from me, I am not going to be put in the position of table captain every hand.

I might announce the third time that this is my last notice, now it’s up to you guys to call the floor if you have a problem with it. But seriously, how much coddling does a table need if they really don’t seem to care?
 
how much coddling does a table need if they really don’t seem to care
I guess that's the problem. And we're really not making up absurd "what ifs" - the truth is that I've seen this more than once from both sides of the problem - both as the unwilling seer who has warned the flasher more than once, and as just a table rando, and I've never seen a table rando call for the floor, myself included.
 

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