Big SOHE / SOSHE Tough Split (1 Viewer)

[Jimulacrum]

Playing the all-bomb-pot format, ante of 1, effective stack about 100, NL betting. Game is the "big" version of SOHE, 7 hole cards that you split 4 (Omaha) and 3 (Super Hold'em). Each player gets hole cards, everyone splits them, and then we get the flop and betting commences. We're 6-handed. Hero looks down at:



How do you split this and why?

(Not interested in a PAHWM, just the split decision. Hand didn't end up being that interesting beyond the split.)

Spoiler: Bonus Hand

 

[JMC9389]

SOHE bites.

I have no idea. This is much easier without the extra club.

 

[inca911]

AhTh55 in Omaha for me. Nut flush (plus both royal and steel wheel), broadway, wheel, with dangler pair for surprise tiny boat.

AKQc in SHE: Royal, Nut flush, broadway (the last two are weaker hands in superHE).

 

[suchj0sh]

AT55 Omaha for me

Damn. You really don’t want to carry a nut flush draw for Omaha?

AcQc55 Omaha, AhKTh for hold’em for me. I guess maybe the K and Q should swap. Point is to keep NFD’s in both hands. (I have never once played this game )

Edit: after reading 1 article, I agree with Inca. AhTh55 for Omaha, and the clubs for hold’em seems right to me.

 

[grandmeme]

With it being SHE I probably break the clubs to something like KQ55 and have AAThh. Probably because I have no idea how to play SHE and seem to always get destroyed by a hidden boat. Plus you're guaranteed nut clubs for omaha hand if it comes. Then I complain and moan when I miss everything and fold

 

[Jimulacrum]

Then I complain and moan when I miss everything and fold

I see you've played a fair amount of this game.

 

[Jimulacrum]

SOHE bites.

You shut your whore mouth. SOHE and all its variants* are amazing games.

I have no idea. This is much easier without the extra club.

Absolutely. The is what really makes this interesting for me. Otherwise it's pretty straightforward IMO.

Spoiler: *

I reserve the right to revise this statement if future variants render it untrue.

 

[Frogzilla]

never played but would expect sets to be fairly common holds on the SHE side and wouldn’t feel great about AKQccc if board pairs so id be tempted to go AAT / KQ55

 

[grandmeme]

I see you've played a fair amount of this game.

Hahahahaha. We do include this game as a pot limit game, so the strategy might be a bit different vs FL. I think for PL it's better to have a better chance for a nut draw on both so AKQccc in SHE starts to shrivel in value and equity when the money goes in on flop/turn. And the decisions become much simpler IMO in the stack off race.

 

[BarrieJ3]

Depends on the type of player you are, I don’t think there’s a wrong move.

Bomb format and 100 deep is almost meaningless. If it’s a circus table, moneys going in.

I enjoy showing up in spots to scoop that are unexpected, I like hemorrhaging and hammering (ooc) money in early on draws.

There’s always “hidden monsters” in super hold em because boat on every board, but that’s just people find excuses to fold pre flop in mixed/circus games. There’s multiple ways to keep both nut flush’s available, but in all those ways you’re playing for 1/2 the pot.

I want to keep the scoop dream alive, so I’m going and . And I’m fine getting it all in pre there 3-4 way if I have to, just for funsies.

I could see many folks hammering AAK into super trying to lock down 1/2 or miss everything, or double suited aces in Omaha trying to hit nuts for 1/2 or nothing - I.e. have real easy post flop decisions.

 

[RocAFella1]

Love SOSHE, been playing it for years now. The royal draw is always tempting but I always feel pairs/trips play better in super.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Hahahahaha. We do include this game as a pot limit game, so the strategy might be a bit different vs FL.

This is actually a NL game, not FL. Updated OP to be clear.

 

[RocAFella1]

Flushes in omaha are stronger where there is no possibility of a hidden boat.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Flushes in omaha are stronger where there is no possibility of a hidden boat.

True. Hidden boats are the bread and butter of SHE.

 

[grandmeme]

This is actually a NL game, not FL. Updated OP to be clear.

I probably still keep it as AAT and KQ55. Makes life easy in SHE and Omaha when the money goes in multiway you have chances to scoop. I don't think AKQccc is good multiway in SHE unless you drill the royal.

 

[grandmeme]

I think if you don't have the third heart there's more argument for keeping AKQccc in SHE. AT55hhh is a marginal hand at best for regular Omaha.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I probably still keep it as AAT and KQ55.

I narrowed it down to two other splits and didn't even think of this one in the moment. But now that I'm looking at it, I don't hate it.

 

[BarrieJ3]

If I don’t hate money and wanted to play it correctly, it’s one of these two.




(Idk why, but it doesn’t feel as fun)

 

[grandmeme]

This is really interesting. Here's my take as a lifetime losing circus games player:

The way I see it, if you keep AKQccc and AT55hhh, it's much easier to get scooped and harder to play since you make more marginal hands. And when the money goes in, you're for sure dead on one of the split hands.

For example, if you get it in on nut clubs with AKQccc, you probably have no outs on AT55 since there is at best backdoor hearts (no broadway since you have KQcc). If you get it in with nut hearts on AT55, broadway, or a low set (really bad to GII with), you are likely dead on SHE. While this is still true for AAT and KQ55 split, you at least still have outs for the other side. If an A comes you have backdoor straight outs. If you flop broadway you have top set most of the time. If you miss completely, you can get away easily.

I don't mind making double suited AA for omaha, but that's for nits who only want half the pot.

 

[allforcharity]

AhTh55 in Omaha for me. Nut flush (plus both royal and steel wheel), broadway, wheel, with dangler pair for surprise tiny boat.

AKQc in SHE: Royal, Nut flush, broadway (the last two are weaker hands in superHE).

^^^
I generally agree with this split.

An alternate would be AA55 (2 hearts) for Omaha and KQT (2 clubs) for SHE.

 

[bergs]

never played but would expect sets to be fairly common holds on the SHE side and wouldn’t feel great about AKQccc if board pairs so id be tempted to go AAT / KQ55

This. Flop a A and you have a likely nut SHE hand and potentially a broadway draw in PLO.

You need to set to scoop at least one hand. AA in 6 card might be an easier decision but in a bomb format when that’s hairy. Interesting hand.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I feel like current responses cover the whole range of reasonable splits, so I'll say what I did.

First thing I noticed was , and I wanted to set up the potential royal in SHE because who doesn't love smashing a royal, amirite? But the result is just an okay holding in Omaha, , and even the SHE side is going to mostly hit marginal stuff, when it doesn't royal up.

Next, I considered taking the

nits who only want half the pot

approach, i.e.,

|
|

(My vertical lines added for clarity.)

Ultimately I went with the split., but I'm looking at the split now and wondering if it was actually the better between the two, or even if they're equal. It's really close. The way the cards interact, both the and are valuable on either side in ways that seem to balance.

My thinking is that the double suited aces split in Omaha sets it up to be a nut-making powerhouse in every possible way, and that's the side I usually want my strength because it's more secure. What makes the decision easier for me is that the SHE hand also ends up with hidden boat potential and meshes well with the Omaha hand. Half the time I flop a set, it will give me a third club in Omaha, and if I spike the or , it fills a slot toward Broadway in Omaha. Add the aces, and I have a long list of ways to make nutted hands in Omaha that also have a fair chance at SHE.

As I said above, I don't hate the split that puts

in SHE either. It didn't occur to me at the time because I lean way Omaha in this game, but the AAT split gives you a much better stake in SHE and a combo hand in Omaha with some nut potential. I still prefer the way I did it, but this one is in the realm of acceptable IMO.

but in a bomb format when that’s hairy

The bomb pot structure is always an interesting factor. You don't have to weather a round of preflop betting to see whether the hand is going to play well with the board, and it makes decisions like this a little different. It's actually awesome to get to see a flop with everything by default. Highly recommend.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Spoiler: Hand results for degens who gotta have it

Flopped a flush draw on baby board, whiffed turn, whiffed river, ended up having to fold naked AA in Omaha on the end, with no improvement in SHE. Something like , single < pot bet on each street. I believe it was a boat that took SHE, and IIRC a ridiculous two pair like 37 took Omaha. AAT split would have lost in almost exactly the same way, with me chasing the flush and losing both ways. Royal split would have taken the Omaha side with a wheel and lost with a flush in SHE.

 

[Moxie Mike]

Playing the all-bomb-pot format, ante of 1, effective stack about 100, NL betting. Game is the "big" version of SOHE, 7 hole cards that you split 4 (Omaha) and 3 (Super Hold'em). Each player gets hole cards, everyone splits them, and then we get the flop and betting commences. We're 6-handed. Hero looks down at:



How do you split this and why?

I've read no replies or spoilers so I apologize if this is redundant. FWIW, my group only plays fixed limit, so YMMV.

I'm splitting like this:

Omaha:
Super-Holdem:

My philosophy with SOHE is this: Make the Omaha hand as strong as possible. I will split off bare aces or kings to the Holdem side if they don't coordinate very well with the rest of my holdings, but the problem with that approach is you often end up calling down all the way just to see if your overpair holds up for half the pot.

The approach of making the Omaha side as strong as possible makes flop play very straightforward... if you whiff the flop it's an easy fold - especially if you don't have an overpair on the Holdem side incentivizing you to call down.

If I flop top pair or a set of 5's that's plenty of reason to stick around too, and if not, into the muck they go.

In a NL game, there might be an argument for putting the aces on the Holdem side and jamming any flop, since aces are likely to hold up for 1/2 the pot and fold equity would probably be pretty high. That's conjecture though, since I've never played NL.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I've read no replies or spoilers so I apologize if this is redundant. FWIW, my group only plays fixed limit, so YMMV.

I'm splitting like this:

Omaha:
Super-Holdem:

My philosophy with SOHE is this: Make the Omaha hand as strong as possible. I will split off bare aces or kings to the Holdem side if they don't coordinate very well with the rest of my holdings, but the problem with that approach is you often end up calling down all the way just to see if your overpair holds up for half the pot.

The approach of making the Omaha side as strong as possible makes flop play very straightforward... if you whiff the flop it's an easy fold - especially if you don't have an overpair on the Holdem side incentivizing you to call down.

If I flop top pair or a set of 5's that's plenty of reason to stick around too, and if not, into the muck they go.

In a NL game, there might be an argument for putting the aces on the Holdem side and jamming any flop, since aces are likely to hold up for 1/2 the pot and fold equity would probably be pretty high. That's conjecture though, since I've never played NL.

You made about the same choice as I did, for the same reasons, but I treated the queen as the loose card for SHE instead of the king. (Thoughts on that?)

I don't think FL versus NL changes my mind here. I still want my Omaha side to be set up for maximum nuttiness either way, and ideally in a way that benefits from whatever SHE might hit, i.e., , any queen.

 

[CraigT78]

AhTh55 in Omaha for me. Nut flush (plus both royal and steel wheel), broadway, wheel, with dangler pair for surprise tiny boat.

AKQc in SHE: Royal, Nut flush, broadway (the last two are weaker hands in superHE).

I'm splitting it the same way as Forrest, for the same reasons.

 

[Moxie Mike]

You made about the same choice as I did, for the same reasons, but I treated the queen as the loose card for SHE instead of the king. (Thoughts on that?)

I think it's more or less arbitrary between the K and the Q... Assuming you flop kings or queens up they're more or less the same hand.

 

[allforcharity]

I suppose the point is truly moot since the community card runout went to shit

 

[Jimulacrum]

I suppose the point is truly moot since the community card runout went to shit

I ended up with a fair shot at a nut flush in Omaha in a multi-way pot with action, and only lost as much as necessary to see the draw through. There are worse outcomes.