Betting line distance from end of table (1 Viewer)

Freeroll

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I’ve decided to build a new table, since my game has changed since I built my current tables. We now have a dealer, and we commonly have 10 players plus the dealer at the main table.

So, the new table will be a dealer cutout table and will be 108”x46”, instead of what I currently have (96”x44”).

The only issue I’m having is that the betting line on my current table is the perfect size for my wife (the dealer) to reach all bets and pull them in, so I want to go with the same size betting line on the new larger table; however, this will make the betting line a bit of a reach from two of the end seats.

Here is a picture of me reaching across where the betting line will be on the new table:

7D6DA526-E381-4603-ACC8-A12A1A10891D.jpeg


Now, I am only 5’6”, so if I can reach it, most others will be able to reach it more comfortably.

I think I am going to go ahead with it, but just thought I’d post about it first, incase anyone had any advice that might help.

Thanks,
Adam.
 

Gunnar

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I think it will be alright but be prepaired for some people to leave their bets just outside the line so they don't have to reach as far
 

LeLe

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Can't imagine a table with a betting line that isn't the same distance from every seat. I understand why you're doing it but won't it look really weird?
I think it’s rare to have the same betting line distance from every seat for an oval / reg table poker table just purely because of the shape

It will however be easier for a round poker table
 

timinater

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My rule of thumb designing table layouts is to place the betting line roughly 10-12 inches (give or take) from the outside edge of the table/rail. I'm primarily designing tables for self-dealt games, mind you.

I think you could increase that distance a little bit (especially on the ends) for a game with a dealer. She'll also have the benefit of the cutout and should be able to reach a little further than in your current table.

I'd be careful to not make the players reach too far but you've really backed yourself into a corner, what with the happy wife, happy life of it all :)

Here is a picture of me reaching across where the betting line will be on the new table:

7D6DA526-E381-4603-ACC8-A12A1A10891D.jpeg
This looks too far to me. Do that stretch 100 times and see if it gets old.
 

dmoney

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I made my Barrington the same distance from the rail all the way around. I think it makes more sense aesthetically and for game reasons.

I think the intended function of a betting line is to separate the “player area” where players have their own chips and the “pot area” where bets become live and are collected, and as such it would seem weird for some players to be closer than others.

Hypothetically, could a player on the end make a betting move, induce action, but pull it back and argue they didn’t cross the line?

136FFBA6-0F31-4C25-AB42-EFB11E2B7412.jpegBE8DD19A-7B8A-45F9-B34C-4A35350D0F0D.jpeg5FF5A839-7F0D-4311-A9FD-C403F3CF171F.jpeg
 

72o

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I don’t think I could deal with (haha puns) NOT having equal space all around the betting line. I would rather place the bets and then “throw” the bets in closer after action is closed. This is just my personal preference though.
 

Nine_high

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My 84x42 has a betting line, i believe it's 8.5" from the rail on the sides and 10.5" on the ends. It looks perfectly normal and is functional. End players are a little more squeezed so a little extra space isn't a bad thing IMO
 

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I was in the group that said "make it even," however, I played in a tournament at Caesars SI yesterday and noticed that the lines on the ends are slightly closer to the dealer than in the middle. I'm thinking that this may be standard on most tables in most casinos, and, reality is its something that we never noticed.
 

DeusEx

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So the shape of my table is a bit different (and I love this thing), most people suggest like 7.5'' from the rail, but I didn't think that was enough, so I went 9 3/4s''

I typically sit in the 8 seat (its a PLO table so there are only 9 max :cool) and I wish I would have moved it in another inch or two (on the ends) because how the table sits the two players on either side of you when sitting the 2 | 8 seat. I don't think it looks bad at all if the betting line on the ends are closer to the center. You could have her sit in the box, and put her arms out to mark her reach. Thats going to be a long table!

The guys I play with never complain about space and all talk about the shape of my jib the table, the dealer has no issue reaching everything. I would suggest you look into Elliptical table build I've played for years on a regular holdem table, and I feel like I'm not bias on the table shape (just because I built it or its mine), but I prefer this shape and its only 96x "44" it is 44 in the middle but quickly tapers in. I was in a hurry so I marked the table and cut it out with a router, but if you build a jig first and then cut the table out, it'll go faster and easier.

I deal a few games and you might share with your wife if someone isn't get the bet where she can reach it - 'Little help? They won't let me get up and come around the table to get that' with a joking / sarcastic tone - Most people will start making sure they get it in there close. :)


20211128_224807-01-jpeg.819714
 

Nine_high

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I was in the group that said "make it even," however, I played in a tournament at Caesars SI yesterday and noticed that the lines on the ends are slightly closer to the dealer than in the middle. I'm thinking that this may be standard on most tables in most casinos, and, reality is its something that we never noticed.

Exactly. I thought mine was uniform but I decided to measure and that's the only reason I even know it's 2" further on the ends. Looks completely natural
 

aggie

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Hedging it in a few inches is a good idea, but what you have now is way too far IMO. Players don't want to play Twister to place a simple bet -- best case they'll just start splashing pots and worst case you'll run into bet miscommunication or even angling.

If it's just out of reach for little dealer arms, just teach your players to "push it in" once action is closed. As shared above, saying, "A little help?" a few times is enough to train even the most obtuse player. That's way better than constantly saying, "Is that a bet?" or "Stop splashing the pot!"
 

T_Chan

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It's common practice at casinos that their layouts have a larger "racetrack" at the ends. The dealers are reaching all day, so to reach the ends can be hard if the betting line is too far away. There's usually some players who have a tendency to put their chips and cards just inside the betting line.

This is a 10' table, the space at the ends is quite large compared to the straight sides.

2018-01-15 12.34.08.jpg
 

DeusEx

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@T_Chan what do you think of differently shaped tables? Have you played at many? do you make or get requests for different tables like the kidney table or elliptical?

What is your preference?
 

T_Chan

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Differently shaped tables are cool in my books. I really like the kidney bean shaped tables, however I find they're not great for players 1 and 10 since the dealer is right in their way. At least on an oval, you can lean forward a little to see each other. On a kidney bean, you both have to lean back and look behind the dealer.

Octagons are great too, really good for the social aspect. I don't like how it gets funky if you have 7 or 9 players though.

Rounds are awesome, they have the most flexibility, but for a round table with the same diameter as a round, you get less rail space.

Ovals are pretty universal, great for a dedicated dealer game but kind of crappy for a self dealt game for players at the ends. I use ovals for all of my own games, but are thinking of switching over to rounds for my own games.

Another downside of large rounds and octagons is that you have to reach further to get to the middle.

So every shape has its good and bad.
 

Goldfish

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It's common practice at casinos that their layouts have a larger "racetrack" at the ends. The dealers are reaching all day, so to reach the ends can be hard if the betting line is too far away. There's usually some players who have a tendency to put their chips and cards just inside the betting line.

This is a 10' table, the space at the ends is quite large compared to the straight sides.

View attachment 1096709
I was going to make this point as well. IMO the betting line is necessary to designate the reachable space for the dealer and to promote players putting their chips out so the dealer can easily reach them. Your table is going to be 108” long, that is a monster. If the end players don’t push the chips far enough forward, the dealer will not be able to reach them. Better to have the players getting used to pushing the chips far enough forward rather than listing to the dealer say “can u push the chips forward please” all night long.
 

Servo

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Rounds are awesome, they have the most flexibility, but for a round table with the same diameter as a round, you get less rail space.
I assume there’s an error in there, or I’m not following— could you clarify? Same diameter as what?

Also, which shape would you recommend for a table that will also be used for 2-player card and board games? I’m leaning toward round for the poker aspect, but I’m afraid it will be too wide for a decent 2-player board game or non-poker cards.
 

Freeroll

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So the shape of my table is a bit different (and I love this thing), most people suggest like 7.5'' from the rail, but I didn't think that was enough, so I went 9 3/4s''

I typically sit in the 8 seat (its a PLO table so there are only 9 max :cool) and I wish I would have moved it in another inch or two (on the ends) because how the table sits the two players on either side of you when sitting the 2 | 8 seat. I don't think it looks bad at all if the betting line on the ends are closer to the center. You could have her sit in the box, and put her arms out to mark her reach. Thats going to be a long table!

The guys I play with never complain about space and all talk about the shape of my jib the table, the dealer has no issue reaching everything. I would suggest you look into Elliptical table build I've played for years on a regular holdem table, and I feel like I'm not bias on the table shape (just because I built it or its mine), but I prefer this shape and its only 96x "44" it is 44 in the middle but quickly tapers in. I was in a hurry so I marked the table and cut it out with a router, but if you build a jig first and then cut the table out, it'll go faster and easier.

I deal a few games and you might share with your wife if someone isn't get the bet where she can reach it - 'Little help? They won't let me get up and come around the table to get that' with a joking / sarcastic tone - Most people will start making sure they get it in there close. :)


20211128_224807-01-jpeg.819714
I was really considering a similarly shaped table to yours for a while, but ended up deciding to go with the classic oval, mostly because I thought it would be slightly easier, but I may have to reconsider.
 

DeusEx

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The sight lines are better, you can see everyone from any seat and its good space.
 

upNdown

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I assume there’s an error in there, or I’m not following— could you clarify? Same diameter as what?

Also, which shape would you recommend for a table that will also be used for 2-player card and board games? I’m leaning toward round for the poker aspect, but I’m afraid it will be too wide for a decent 2-player board game or non-poker cards.
Octagon. A round with the same diameter as an octagon has less rail space. Which is why the octagon is more efficient. But don’t say that too loudly because people will fight you.
 

Nymor

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The octagon or circle is quite a interesting. While you may get slightly more rail space with an octogen you are also setting the seating positions and numbers.

It's a simliar thing with cup holders on the table/in the rail as opposed to off table on sidetables or whatever - if you have them built into the table then you're setting the seating again.

I'm all for that myself and I'm more than happy that my table has clear demarcation of seating so I never have to contemplate playing > 8 :) ... can we squeeze just one more in ... no!
 

AWenger

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So, the new table will be a dealer cutout table and will be 108”x46”, instead of what I currently have (96”x44”).

The only issue I’m having is that the betting line on my current table is the perfect size for my wife (the dealer) to reach all bets and pull them in, so I want to go with the same size betting line on the new larger table; however, this will make the betting line a bit of a reach from two of the end seats.
As for the line offset from the table, when there's a dedicated dealer in the middle who will be collecting bets & folded cards, I think it makes perfect sense to have the betting line be a much smaller oval left-to-right, and it needs to be inset further from the ends of the table, but probably not too far -- and I think in the first photo the line looks too far away from the player.

But I think I may have a good solution, and I'm surprised no one mentioned it above... just get a wife with longer arms. Ok, it's either that or get a good adjustable dealer chair. The solution for longer reach for the dealer may be in the chair -- an comfortable office type chair that has a lot of adjustments:
  • Swivels (and also on casters), should allow her to reach further reach in both directions with the swiveling seat.
  • An air/pneumatic lift, to sit higher off the ground, maybe also using a footstool if needed, should allow her to reach further
  • A seat that tilts forward/down a little bit and a seat back that tilts more forward than some office chairs should help allow her shoulders to be positioned more upright and closer to the table (and thus reach further) while still having good back support, versus a chair that has a reclining back.
  • I'd go with a chair either without arm rests or with removable arm rests, depending on how much they would get in the way.
Also, with the dealer cutout (and now more space between players with the bigger table) her reach might be longer left-to-right. Try testing it out with her in the dealer chair to see if there's an increase in reach.
 

T_Chan

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Octagon. A round with the same diameter as an octagon has less rail space. Which is why the octagon is more efficient. But don’t say that too loudly because people will fight you.

Yeah, this, octagon.

I assume there’s an error in there, or I’m not following— could you clarify? Same diameter as what?

Also, which shape would you recommend for a table that will also be used for 2-player card and board games? I’m leaning toward round for the poker aspect, but I’m afraid it will be too wide for a decent 2-player board game or non-poker cards.

Octagon or square. Board games need a lot of felt real estate, way more than card games. Even hexagon maybe.
 

BGinGA

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Octagon. A round with the same diameter as an octagon has less rail space. Which is why the octagon is more efficient. But don’t say that too loudly because people will fight you.
Depends what you define as the 'diameter' of the octagon. The points? If so, the round has more rail space.
 

BGinGA

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which shape would you recommend for a table that will also be used for 2-player card and board games? I’m leaning toward round for the poker aspect, but I’m afraid it will be too wide for a decent 2-player board game or non-poker cards.
Oval. Plenty of space for two-player games of all types.
 

upNdown

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Depends what you define as the 'diameter' of the octagon. The points? If so, the round has more rail space.
Fair point. When you’re concerned about how the table fits in the space, you’d measure from the points. When you’re concerned about how the table plays (like distance to the middle) you’d measure by the sides.
 

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