Hot dogs are a sandwich.
Anybody else think we should stop using the words "spot progression?" (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter upNdown
- Start date
bergs
Royal Flush
People saying there is no such thing as edge paint progression?
What’s next now that we’re turning that sacred cow into hamburger? Biden didn’t win the election? UFOs aren’t real? The earth isn’t flat?
Spare me your hand wringing and apologetic lamentations. Edge paint progression is real and I can prove it.
What’s next now that we’re turning that sacred cow into hamburger? Biden didn’t win the election? UFOs aren’t real? The earth isn’t flat?
Spare me your hand wringing and apologetic lamentations. Edge paint progression is real and I can prove it.
bergs
Royal Flush
DR RED OTT BELIEVED IN EDGE PAINT PROGRESSION. He was down with EPP.
I guess I should have clarified “practically every legendary casino set” … but yes, those are all amazing home sets and spot progression plays a critical role!
Oh god. Y'all have done it now. Bergs is pissed.
Petition to have a sub forum titled. "YELLING AT CLOUDS. and other lamentations"
Once sub forum created please stickie this thread.
In other news.
Progression of spots is real. Moon landing was real also.
Once sub forum created please stickie this thread.
In other news.
Progression of spots is real. Moon landing was real also.
I demand to be the mod of politics and the "Yelling at clouds" subforum.
With @pltrgyst
Y'all will understand pain..... and the joys of Werther's Originals.
No, I don't think so. If any casino in the last 15 years has hired a designer for their chips, I'd be surprised. Or else they should have been fired.
Historically, the chips have to be different enough from each other to be recognizable from an eye in the sky CC security system (with black and white monitors, no less) or a pit boss to estimate totals in player stacks and dealer trays.
This doesn't mean that the higher denom chips automatically get the more complex spots. But the correlation may have been there for most casinos.
CrazyEddie
Full House
You don’t have to see all denoms on the table at once for spot progression (or variation) to matter.
In a cash game, for example, there are typically three main chips in play, sometimes a fourth if it gets deep.
Every element of a chip’s design—base color, spots, inlay/faux inlay shape, graphics, diameter—can contribute to better recognition and identification.
A player’s ability to quickly size up a pot, or opponents’ stacks, or to “read” a bet size, without having to strain or ask for counts derives from all the available cues.
Some players will focus on certain elements more than others. For some (the colorblind for example), spots and inlays may be more important, though most go by base color primarily, I think.
This is a mostly unconscious habit and skill, so people tend to devalue it. But it doesn’t just “happen.”
Sure, you can get away with not having clearly distinguishable spots, but it is taking away one major identifier.
In a cash game, for example, there are typically three main chips in play, sometimes a fourth if it gets deep.
Every element of a chip’s design—base color, spots, inlay/faux inlay shape, graphics, diameter—can contribute to better recognition and identification.
A player’s ability to quickly size up a pot, or opponents’ stacks, or to “read” a bet size, without having to strain or ask for counts derives from all the available cues.
Some players will focus on certain elements more than others. For some (the colorblind for example), spots and inlays may be more important, though most go by base color primarily, I think.
This is a mostly unconscious habit and skill, so people tend to devalue it. But it doesn’t just “happen.”
Sure, you can get away with not having clearly distinguishable spots, but it is taking away one major identifier.
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CrazyEddie
Full House
I just think they look pretty.
I would argue that in your first photo, the Knollwoods set has spot "regression." That $1 is the star of the show, and is the only chip in the set with three different edge spot colors. The hundo stands out more because of the specific colors and the sheer number of spots. But I don't think it's more complex. To me the $5 and the $25 are both clear steps backwards from that gorgeous $1. Which of course, just proves the point that it's extremely difficult to define in any certain terms exactly what spot progression even is.
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TheDuke
Full House
Rather than the idea of spot progression think of the idea of chip differentiation.
Having different edgespots on denoms helps folks differentiate between denoms more easily.
As pointed out, alot of casino fracs and dollars are solid colors. Perhaps due to cost considerations. From there, higher denoms will sometimes have varied spot patterns. Again, likely to make it easier to differentiate chips and aide in eyeballing chip stacks.
In line with the idea of chip differentiation, some casinos will use 43mm for larger denoms like $1000 and $5000.
Chip progression is a recognized nomenclature for chip enthusiasts - particularly those who have created their own custom set. Chip progression can mean different things to different people. Who's to judge what is more complex between 8v and 4d14? That's a personal call.
Having different edgespots on denoms helps folks differentiate between denoms more easily.
As pointed out, alot of casino fracs and dollars are solid colors. Perhaps due to cost considerations. From there, higher denoms will sometimes have varied spot patterns. Again, likely to make it easier to differentiate chips and aide in eyeballing chip stacks.
In line with the idea of chip differentiation, some casinos will use 43mm for larger denoms like $1000 and $5000.
Chip progression is a recognized nomenclature for chip enthusiasts - particularly those who have created their own custom set. Chip progression can mean different things to different people. Who's to judge what is more complex between 8v and 4d14? That's a personal call.
Hi Up
Y'all, g'day, strala, fair dinkum and my hated favorite "Crikey" are all made up. And by the way NO ONE in australia says crikey... until they go to the states. When i went, i always started a conversation with "G'day". This is to say I'M an OZZIE. Or better put I am NOT BRITISH so please like me. Anyway i digress. Probably all of them need to be dropped. Especially Krikey. OMG i cringe every time i hear it. Thankfully i only hear it on the crocodile hunter. God rest his soul. he did alot for strala but we don't talk like that. No one talks like that.
Now I'll up the ante - There is another spot progression that also should be stopped. That's the spot progression that was removed from my arm. Lets stop THAT spot progression. So far so good - all benign.
Its funny... This post makes me think... How strange are people? Lets face it. people are strange. Me included. So don't hate me cause i'm pretty. I cant help it. Its a curse and i have it. or (more important to the subject) that i have a spot pattern in my head id like to own one day. Its also a pretty spot progression. You can hate me for that. but not cause im pretty.
But overall - I hear ya. And agree that these things can do your head in.
Gts(Don't hate me cause I'm Pretty
)Geoff
Y'all, g'day, strala, fair dinkum and my hated favorite "Crikey" are all made up. And by the way NO ONE in australia says crikey... until they go to the states. When i went, i always started a conversation with "G'day". This is to say I'M an OZZIE. Or better put I am NOT BRITISH so please like me. Anyway i digress. Probably all of them need to be dropped. Especially Krikey. OMG i cringe every time i hear it. Thankfully i only hear it on the crocodile hunter. God rest his soul. he did alot for strala but we don't talk like that. No one talks like that.
Now I'll up the ante - There is another spot progression that also should be stopped. That's the spot progression that was removed from my arm. Lets stop THAT spot progression. So far so good - all benign.
Its funny... This post makes me think... How strange are people? Lets face it. people are strange. Me included. So don't hate me cause i'm pretty. I cant help it. Its a curse and i have it. or (more important to the subject) that i have a spot pattern in my head id like to own one day. Its also a pretty spot progression. You can hate me for that. but not cause im pretty.
But overall - I hear ya. And agree that these things can do your head in.
Gts(Don't hate me cause I'm Pretty
)Geoff
Don't mistake "more complex" for "better".
I had the privilege of playing with these last summer, the $1s are even better in person and my favorite of the set. But the 5s and above have what's typically considered more complex spot patterns (more spots with more complex arrangements), and the quarter is simpler with the 212 spots. This set is the *perfect* example of what @JeepologyOffroad mentioned before - focus on your workhorse chip and make that the best one, then build from there (which I agree with 100000%, I tell folks that all the time). And even if your workhorse chip isn't a simple 414 / 418 or similar, you can often still accommodate some chip progression in the higher denoms.
Just to be clear, the point of my comment wasn't to criticize your example of spot progression. It was to point out that it is very personal and difficult to define.Don't mistake "more complex" for "better".
I had the privilege of playing with these last summer, the $1s are even better in person and my favorite of the set. But the 5s and above have what's typically considered more complex spot patterns (more spots with more complex arrangements), and the quarter is simpler with the 212 spots. This set is the *perfect* example of what @JeepologyOffroad mentioned before - focus on your workhorse chip and make that the best one, then build from there (which I agree with 100000%, I tell folks that all the time). And even if your workhorse chip isn't a simple 414 / 418 or similar, you can often still accommodate some chip progression in the higher denoms.
CrazyEddie
Full House
AWenger
Full House
Just from a casino standpoint -- California Bell Club was a casino that opened in 1974 -- they had chips from $0.25 through $100, with 4 jumps in spot progressions. So it was a thing that was done by a casino in 1974. One of my favorite sets I own.
http://chipguide.themogh.org/cg_chip2.php?id=CABECB&v=3537925132
But that's not to say I don't like sets with other spot patterns, or same spot patterns. Sometimes the spots get too 'busy' for my particular taste.
One of my favorites of other folks' custom sets I remember from this year is the Cantura Casino set with similar spots throughout:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/cantura-cantina.78680/#post-1606809
http://chipguide.themogh.org/cg_chip2.php?id=CABECB&v=3537925132
But that's not to say I don't like sets with other spot patterns, or same spot patterns. Sometimes the spots get too 'busy' for my particular taste.
One of my favorites of other folks' custom sets I remember from this year is the Cantura Casino set with similar spots throughout:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/cantura-cantina.78680/#post-1606809
Although I disagree with most of @upNdown’s p points, I also disagree with people deriding this thread. As a chipper in his first year, “spot progression” was one of the first concepts I was introduced to when getting into the custom chipping side and the people in this thread who’ve described it as being “shoved down throats” are pretty on point but that’s something I’m thankful for because I think it’s integral to a great set.
I think the biggest mess going on in thread is about definition of the word “progression.”
Although many (and the most immediate) uses of the word probably lead one to think of “advancing” in some way (in this context, from simple to complex), that isn’t the only thing it has to mean and is certainly not what I think everyone always Means when using the term. (Btw consider a “blues progression”…..)
I think @pltrgyst and @Angie99 got it right. It’s not about progressing from simple to complex, it’s making sure that one element of the chip design that you think about is the spots and their relationship to each other.
I also think the argument you’re making based on people not agreeing on what’s most complex is a weak one. Yes at the fringes there are some spot patterns that people disagree on but no one is going to say that 214 is more complex than 4DS18. But that doesn’t even matter! Also people always make their subjective opinions about things sound objective. What’s subjective is what they think about how well the content executes on each criteria it can be ranked on, but some criteria is objective. Chips have spots, so chips in a line up have a progression (even a “flat” one for all the same is a progression imo, even all solids!). You can’t say that’s not a criteria when looking at chips.
To another point, I haven’t been in chipping for years like many here, but you wouldn’t have things “flags” if not for spot progression.
Lastly, here’s an analogy from something I know much more about — kitchen knife geometry.
You may like knives with a large bevel, thick spine, soft spine, and an incredibly round belly and you’d be welcome to that opinion. I might try and show you why I think in each of those areas you’re making the wrong choices but what can’t happen is for someone to come in and say that those criteria aren’t aspects of a knife that it can be assessed on.
/essay
I think the biggest mess going on in thread is about definition of the word “progression.”
Although many (and the most immediate) uses of the word probably lead one to think of “advancing” in some way (in this context, from simple to complex), that isn’t the only thing it has to mean and is certainly not what I think everyone always Means when using the term. (Btw consider a “blues progression”…..)
I think @pltrgyst and @Angie99 got it right. It’s not about progressing from simple to complex, it’s making sure that one element of the chip design that you think about is the spots and their relationship to each other.
I also think the argument you’re making based on people not agreeing on what’s most complex is a weak one. Yes at the fringes there are some spot patterns that people disagree on but no one is going to say that 214 is more complex than 4DS18. But that doesn’t even matter! Also people always make their subjective opinions about things sound objective. What’s subjective is what they think about how well the content executes on each criteria it can be ranked on, but some criteria is objective. Chips have spots, so chips in a line up have a progression (even a “flat” one for all the same is a progression imo, even all solids!). You can’t say that’s not a criteria when looking at chips.
To another point, I haven’t been in chipping for years like many here, but you wouldn’t have things “flags” if not for spot progression.
Lastly, here’s an analogy from something I know much more about — kitchen knife geometry.
You may like knives with a large bevel, thick spine, soft spine, and an incredibly round belly and you’d be welcome to that opinion. I might try and show you why I think in each of those areas you’re making the wrong choices but what can’t happen is for someone to come in and say that those criteria aren’t aspects of a knife that it can be assessed on.
/essay
chipinla
4 of a Kind
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Calling dogs hot is offensive
Did we (pcf) ever agree on the term Edge Paint?
ImCrossland
Full House
This is the greatest rant I have ever read. I have read this 3 times and I’m still laughing my ass off.Hi Up
Y'all, g'day, strala, fair dinkum and my hated favorite "Crikey" are all made up. And by the way NO ONE in australia says crikey... until they go to the states. When i went, i always started a conversation with "G'day". This is to say I'M an OZZIE. Or better put I am NOT BRITISH so please like me. Anyway i digress. Probably all of them need to be dropped. Especially Krikey. OMG i cringe every time i hear it. Thankfully i only hear it on the crocodile hunter. God rest his soul. he did alot for strala but we don't talk like that. No one talks like that.
Now I'll up the ante - There is another spot progression that also should be stopped. That's the spot progression that was removed from my arm. Lets stop THAT spot progression. So far so good - all benign.
Its funny... This post makes me think... How strange are people? Lets face it. people are strange. Me included. So don't hate me cause i'm pretty. I cant help it. Its a curse and i have it. or (more important to the subject) that i have a spot pattern in my head id like to own one day. Its also a pretty spot progression. You can hate me for that. but not cause im pretty.
But overall - I hear ya. And agree that these things can do your head in.
Gts(Don't hate me cause I'm Pretty
bergs
Royal Flush
It’s in the Constitution DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!!Did we (pcf) ever agree on the term Edge Paint?
RainmanTrail
Straight Flush
Glad to see PCF has finally solved Hilbert's 24th problem!
ekricket
Royal Flush
Dude, we like you because you drinkHi Up
Y'all, g'day, strala, fair dinkum and my hated favorite "Crikey" are all made up. And by the way NO ONE in australia says crikey... until they go to the states. When i went, i always started a conversation with "G'day". This is to say I'M an OZZIE. Or better put I am NOT BRITISH so please like me. Anyway i digress. Probably all of them need to be dropped. Especially Krikey. OMG i cringe every time i hear it. Thankfully i only hear it on the crocodile hunter. God rest his soul. he did alot for strala but we don't talk like that. No one talks like that.
Now I'll up the ante - There is another spot progression that also should be stopped. That's the spot progression that was removed from my arm. Lets stop THAT spot progression. So far so good - all benign.
Its funny... This post makes me think... How strange are people? Lets face it. people are strange. Me included. So don't hate me cause i'm pretty. I cant help it. Its a curse and i have it. or (more important to the subject) that i have a spot pattern in my head id like to own one day. Its also a pretty spot progression. You can hate me for that. but not cause im pretty.
But overall - I hear ya. And agree that these things can do your head in.
Gts(Don't hate me cause I'm Pretty
jpietrella
4 of a Kind
This site gets stranger and rage-ier every single day.
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