Another USPS horror story and any advice is welcomed (1 Viewer)

[Jers28]

Before I get to the meat and potatoes of this post, let me be 100% clear. I don’t think the seller did anything shady, at all. He has been extremely communicative throughout, including now. I’m only posting this in hopes someone may have an idea that hasn’t occurred to me just yet. This is definitely unique, shall we say.

I purchased a rack of Tiger Palace secondary $25s (blurple claws) from @tkeavz on February 12th. He appears to have packed them (no implications to the contrary, I’m just stating the facts that I know) and definitely shipped me something that weighed the correct amount on Feb 13th. That package took its sweet time getting here, but arrived today. Unfortunately, the package was all that arrived. It’s an empty box. I have not done a thing with the box, aside from bring it inside and take some pics. It’s clearly empty now. The rest of the story in more detail is below. We are picking it up from Tom asking me what happened privately.

Was the box opened on your front porch?? They delivered you an empty box that was opened?? I’m confused

Sorry bud. My poker game is Saturday afternoon until we are done. We just wrapped and I am only now able to get back to you. Firstly, thank god you’re not ghosting me. I’d have been gutted. I’ve been playing this through in my head and I don’t see how in the world this wasn’t stolen by a postal worker. But, I digress. Let me see if I can make it more clear what the fuck happened.

First, your package left Maryland two days prior to another rack shipped from Boston. That rack arrived 2 days ago and I’ve already milled, cleaned and oiled the damn things. Point? Just that your package was hung up in some sorting center in Maryland for several days without moving. That’s odd. Why didn’t it move? This is where the problem likely happened.

The package finally arrived today and the box was simply inside my mailbox. They always bring boxes to my door. More oddness. It was empty and it even says “empty box” in different hand writing than yours. Your receipt clearly shows the package was paid for at the USPS at 2:47pm. The location of the post office.

14320 Jarretsville Pike
Phoenix, MA

If you’d printed the label at home, maybe I’m not sure what happened. But, you went to the USPS and THEY WEIGHED the package, which according to the package was 2lbs 3.7ounces, which once you account for packing, is exactly what a rack of chips should weigh. 1 kilo being 2.2lbs and a rack is roughly 950 milligrams or .95 kilos. So, when you dropped off the package at USPS, it obviously had contents (the blurples I’m sure, I’m just using appropriate facts and not speculation) that at least weighed the correct amount.

That package leaves the regional post office and then moved to a regional sorting center where it sat for six days.

Now, this fact by itself means nothing. Sometimes they just lose track of packages for a day or two. Here’s where I’m going to speculate that an employee stole the box and removed the contents. Having said that, there is no visible evidence that the package was tampered with. It wasn’t obviously opened and then retapped. I don’t know what the box looked like when you dropped it off, but the hand writing on both sides appears to be your own. Although one side is written with a pen and one is with a sharpie. There are some very subtle variations, like the J on my name doesn’t have the cross mark on the top of the J on one side, but does on the other. It’s not terribly difficult to forge someone else’s printing, but I’m guessing the slight variations are just your own normal variations. But, if you didn’t use a sharpie in one side and a regular ballpoint pen on the other, this is obviously a red flag, too.

The box as it arrived. I still have not opened it. It is clearly still sealed and 100% empty. No point in opening. As far as I know the post office wouldn’t ship an empty box, let alone place a sticker stating the weight is 2 lbs 3.7 ounces, when the box weighs maybe half an ounce.

Note the pencil hand writing someone added above my name that says “Empty Box”

I haven’t done a thing with the package, beyond bringing it inside and took some pics. It’s sealed and my plan is to take it to my local post office on Monday and ask them how they’d ship an empty box with a label stating it’s over 2 lbs. What happened to stall the package out for six days and what, if any, recourse do I have.

I’d love to have some enthusiasm here, but I’m pretty sure I’m just fucked. I think what I have here is a $1,512.65 box.

I’m going to post this story somewhere on PCF to see if anyone has any advice. I want to be 100% clear here…I don’t think you did a damn thing wrong. My money is that an employee of the usps decided to see what was inside and stole the chips. He or she probably had no idea of their value and pitched them in the trash. Maybe they googled Tiger Palace and figured out they were valuable, but I haven’t been able to find anything on FB marketplace, etc with someone trying to sell.

I’m wide open to suggestions on what to do. I’m just sick about the whole thing. The money aspect is gross, sure. But, those aren’t super easy to come by and are highly sought out. Finding a replacement rack, even if money wasn’t a factor would still be a real kick in the nuts.

Thanks for getting back to me. Apologies for rambling. Hopefully this made it clear what happened. If you want to communicate outside the confines of PCF, my cell number is 417-xxx-xxxx. Please text first and I’ll add your number to my phone so it will ring. Privacy is cranked up, otherwise.

I appreciate whatever thoughts you have on the matter and maybe we get lucky.

I’m tagging a few of my friends here at PCF, simply hoping the story doesn’t just disappear. Any thoughts on what avenues I should pursue to maybe resolve this are greatly appreciated!

@UnicornFlash @Huskerchipper @horseshoez @dizzyChipper @sleepypiggly @pocketJs @liftapint @doublebooyah85

 

[JMC9389]

You file a police report.

Seller initiates a missing mail claim.

Insurance should be compulsory for any transaction for over a certain dollar amount.

 

[MatrixExplosion]

I’m thinking at this point insurance is not just an option but a necessity. Super shitty that this happened.

Just a note, I think a lot of the pictures are broken in your post

 

[Jers28]

 

[MatrixExplosion]

I believe the packages are scanned and weighed multiple times throughout the delivery route. Might be worth a try getting a police report and escalating the issue with USPS to see if the weight changed along the way

 

[grandmeme]

I noticed you had both addresses in the picture, maybe edit them out just in case. Sad and confusing case for sure.

 

[Eriks]

You file a police report.

Seller initiates a missing mail claim.

Insurance should be compulsory for any transaction for over a certain dollar amount.

@Jers28

You would’ve gotten that exact advice without posting every little detail. If I’m your seller I’d be pretty pissed about having my personal info posted on a public forum. What’s the point of that?

 

[merkong]

Situation is brutal. Not helpful but I haven’t shipped or received in a while. Moving forward, when or if I do, it might be FedEx.

 

[DrStrange]

What kind of insurance do you think you can buy? My experience with the insurance offered by the post office boils down to "you got your box, deal is done, job completed, not our problem about the contents". To be fair, that is likely how the insurance works from any shipping company. The insurance protects against a lost parcel. This box was delivered. No claim to be made. If we think about it, that is understandable since no one inspected the contents nor certified its condition prior to shipping.

The Post Office does have a criminal investigation department. This situation is pretty obviously a prospective inside job crime. Prospective. I have no idea how you get their attention. Maybe start here? https://www.uspis.gov/report

This is a sad situation. I feel sorry for every side of the transaction - even down to the postal workers who aren't part of the problem. I hope you can get some sort of acceptable resolution. -=- DrStrange

PS Just guessing, small, heavy, insured boxes might contain silver or even gold. Something easy to turn into cash with few questions asked. Only a newb postal thief is going to sell their identifiable stolen stuff on public forums. Twenty coins of pure silver sells easy, no questions asked. Obscure poker chips? Those go in the trash. The fact the box is in such good condition is a clue about the professional skills of the thief.

 

[suchj0sh]

Situation is brutal. Not helpful but I haven’t shipped or received in a while. Moving forward, when or if I do, it might be FedEx.

I’m definitely not interested in trusting USPS with thousands of dollars anymore. With the kind of money that flies around here, I’m surprised more people don’t just fly in and do in person pickups.

 

[doublebooyah85]

I believe the packages are scanned and weighed multiple times throughout the delivery route. Might be worth a try getting a police report and escalating the issue with USPS to see if the weight changed along the way

This was about the only thing I got from usps after Papergate. Also included a scanned photo of the box.

 

[pocketJs]

Super shitty situation - so sorry this happened Jeremy.

The one thing that separates this from Booyah’s Papergate situation is that he did ultimately get a box that weighed what it said originally. I think you have a definite avenue to investigate with the fact that, somewhere along the way, the weight changed from 2 lbs to “empty box.” There should be a record somewhere along the way that the weight changed, and that’s where you can target.

And obviously it’s totally unhelpful now to be like “hey you should get insurance” - so I’m definitely not saying that. I’ll just say that of any NAGB chips, I believe Tigers are the biggest theft danger because you can Google them, easily find Ken’s website, see that these sell for $8-15/chip. (Conversely if you opened BTPs or ESPTs or Chickens or whatever, you’d need to find this bizarre rabbit hole to understand what they are worth.) That’s why I’ve leaned toward insuring them in my experience shipping them (like the recent shipment from Grandmeme). Again, nothing to do about it now for your situation, but something other folks can consider going forward.

Sorry again Jeremy. This sucks. Really hope you’re able to track down the chips man.

 

[MC_CPA]

Ship the box back for a full refund, seller processes usps claim. Simple.

 

[sleepypiggly]

Sorry this happened. It feels horrible for sure.

"Empty Box" was written by a USPS employee. It means the the box was damaged or opened in transit and the contents fell out (accidentally or by theft). Sometimes there's an outer plastic sleeve to hold the damaged box, but sometimes if the box looks ok, USPS might just retape it.

Considering the circumstances, it would be nothing short of a miracle that you get the contents of the box back.
1) If it's stolen, I'm sure it's either sold/fenced/dumped by now
2) If somehow the box broke open, the contents fell out along the way, and the box retaped by USPS, well, how would the anyone know where these random chips should have gone to, even when found?
3) The box had an actual weight by USPS at initial receipt, so the problem likely should not have been from the initial sender.

The consolation (if any) is to think of the loss as a "cost of doing business." Yes, you could have gotten insurance, and maybe it would be paid out. But likely not, as @DrStrange had pointed out.

IMO, insurance exists mainly to prevent against catastrophic loss, events that would be devastating and affect your livelihood and impact your life in such a significant way as to change how you live. For such protection, you pay a premium for it, and entire industries exist to extract this premium from you. "Premium" means that the amount you pay for insurance is more than it would cost the insurer as measured in actuary terms.

If you had paid for insurance for every single package, you will most definitely pay more over the long run than the infrequent/occasional loss. The logical way (albeit more emotionally devasting) to do this is to never insure any package, but rather set aside a small fund to offset such potential loss. You are essentially "self-insuring," or acting as your own insurance company. The pool grows over time to pay out against these infrequent/occasional losses.

Self-insuring means over the long run, you make out better than paying out for insurance.

I would think of this as - I self insured, and I paid out today. Cost of doing business. It would be great if the contents are recovered, but let's not spend twice the cost in emotional distress over it.

 

[liftapint]

Oof, that SUCKS. I had a package go missing this year too. I split the loss with my seller. I don't really know what else there is to do.

 

[Jers28]

@Jers28

You would’ve gotten that exact advice without posting every little detail. If I’m your seller I’d be pretty pissed about having my personal info posted on a public forum. What’s the point of that?

My address was also all over my post. I had no malicious intent. The PCF community is who is seeing this “personal information” that is bought, sold and pass around here and dozens of other websites dozens of times per day. It was nearly 4am, but now I’ve had a few hours sleep and to be honest, I still don’t know how a psyical address being visible in a thread is hurtful to anyone. That’s certainly not my intent.

If I post pics I’m an asshole for making information (even my own) public. If I don’t post pics, I’m liar and am trying to steer some narrative. My objective was to post exactly what happened and hopefully glean some insight as to how to proceed from some sharp people who have been doing this longer than myself. That’s all. Nothing more, nothing less. But, if kicking me while I’m down improves your day, by all means, kick away.

As for insurance, I had a package go missing I set last July. My wife and I filed the claim and argued over a payout every single day for 3 months +. In the end, they didn’t pay out a nickel, beyond the $100 all packages get whether you pay for separate insurance or not. I spent like $60 or something on that packages insurance, alone. And it didn’t do a damn bit of good. So, I basically went the route @sleepypiggly suggested and self insure. As many chips as I’ve bought and sold, I’m positive this method is cheaper for me, on the whole, even with this most recent loss. In the situation of the package that disappeared, ultimately I split the loss with the buyer as @liftapint suggested.

I sincerely appreciate you guys who gave me some actionable advice. If my post somehow leaked sensitive information about the selller, I apologize profusely to @tkeavz . My address can be found in seconds here and 4 thousand other places online all day every day, so I’m still confused how this is hurtful, but I’m sure I’m to blame for something.

 

[oneeyedjack]

Yes this is one of the possibilities I was thinking about too. The package could have ripped and contents been lost. There may be a way to follow up with a postal inquiry and the post office can look into this. I have used this successfully for a missing check in the mail before that had not been forwarded to my new address yet.If the chips were in a lost and found situation, there is a possibility you could still receive them. It is easy to think someone stole them as you value the contents, but that would take a lot of effort for a postal employee. The more probable outcome I would think is the package got ripped in the sort process and then the contents were emptied from the package, then someone packaged the empty box to improve the service metrics for the station if usps does this. Before doing anything else you may want to open the empty box, as there could be a note of explanation inside.

 

[Jers28]

Yes this is one of the possibilities I was thinking about too. The package could have ripped and contents been lost. There may be a way to follow up with a postal inquiry and the post office can look into this. I have used this successfully for a missing check in the mail before that had not been forwarded to my new address yet.If the chips were in a lost and found situation, there is a possibility you could still receive them. It is easy to think someone stole them as you value the contents, but that would take a lot of effort for a postal employee. The more probable outcome I would think is the package got ripped in the sort process and then the contents were emptied from the package, then someone packaged the empty box to improve the service metrics for the station if usps does this. Before doing anything else you may want to open the empty box, as there could be a note of explanation inside.

That’s a good idea, but I think I want a witness. I plan on going to the post office, as does the seller, tomorrow morning in person. I will take the empty box with me and open it in front of a postal employee. The seller has all the pics, too and it was sent with black tape that is no longer on the package. He’s planning on questioning the post office it was dropped at to see what, if anything, can be done.

 

[elPadroni]

Your only recourse is Insurance. Get the scan details. It should have been scanned again and the weight noted on subsequent scans.

I had this same issue with some Titanium pens I had shipped to me. Box was cut open and replaced with some cheap Harbor Freight tools. Weight was slightly off when they were rescanned after some fishy stuff in Las Vegas. USPS quickly paid out the insurance amount when I threatened police action on their distribution center

 

[chippitydoodah]

If you think this community is nothing more than a bunch of happy friendly people looking to help you, all you need to do is look at some of the for sale posts and see that not everyone is here with good intentions. You run a pretty high stakes cash game at your house I wouldn't want that address being known from coast to coast. I do see your point about anyone could find out anyway if they really wanted to but why make it so easy.

 

[Jers28]

If you think this community is nothing more than a bunch of happy friendly people looking to help you, all you need to do is look at some of the for sale posts and see that not everyone is here with good intentions. You run a pretty high stakes cash game at your house I wouldn't want that address being known from coast to coast. I do see your point about anyone could find out anyway if they really wanted to but why make it so easy.

Thank you. Helpful and appreciated. I am far too trusting, to be sure.

 

[horseshoez]

Man, this is absolutely infuriating to read. I'm sure I speak for a lot of us when I say stories like this hit hard (not just for you and @tkeavz, but for anyone who's ever been a victim of this kind of bullshit). Huge gut punch on every level.

Adding my own two cents on insurance: for high-value chips like these, I strongly recommend getting coverage directly from a third-party provider instead of relying solely on what the carrier (like USPS) offers. Those built-in options often come with low caps, strict rules, or payout headaches, as we've seen in too many threads (including @Jers28's frustration with a USPS claim that went nowhere).

One solid direct-to-customer option I've come across is Secursus (www.secursus.com). A friend who runs a packaging and shipping business swears by companies like them for everything from standard parcels to ultra-high-value stuff like $100k rugs or paintings. They offer coverage for loss, theft, and damage specifically tailored for valuables, collectibles, second-hand goods, and similar items that carriers often exclude or undervalue. It's a few extra steps, but way more reliable than carrier insurance for this kind of thing. If anybody wants more information on them or similar companies, I can always reach out to him and get his feedback on who he thinks are the best ones based on his 25+ years in the industry.

On the likely "inside job" feel: ya, the details line up too neatly for random theft. The multi-day stall at sorting, correct weight at drop-off but empty arrival, added "Empty Box" note in different handwriting... it points to someone along the chain (probably with access) spotting or targeting it. Could be a desperate long opportunist or coordinated ring. Yes, the couriers have better technology these days and added measures to deter this, but there's still a rat out there somewhere trying to outsmart the system. This incident is a perfect example.

Really sorry this happened, man. Hoping the post office provides real answers and that any recourse pans out.

 

[AfterTheFact]

My worst (chipping) nightmare, sorry this happened. It made me wonder so I googled most reliable shipping services. Here is what it said.

 

[JMC9389]

Your only recourse is Insurance. Get the scan details. It should have been scanned again and the weight noted on subsequent scans.

I had this same issue with some Titanium pens I had shipped to me. Box was cut open and replaced with some cheap Harbor Freight tools. Weight was slightly off when they were rescanned after some fishy stuff in Las Vegas. USPS quickly paid out the insurance amount when I threatened police action on their distribution center

This is what needs to be done. Get the police report in ASAP.

 

[Kam]

Not much else to add other than what someone suggested earlier - if it was a legitimate box issue that got ripped then they would have bagged it.

Last year I got this when receiving a rack of Tigers. Box was basically disintegrating since it got soaked, only the tape on the sides of the paulson box kept the chips in.

But it was clearly recognized as an issue and bagged:

Sorry bud this sucks.

 

[Rieguy]

I’m on the road now so no pics to assist, but a rack of chips doesn’t belong and shouldn’t be sent in a SFRB only. Put the SFRB in a PFRE, seal that up, and put it in another PFRE. (I actually use three but two works.). All the shipping supplies are free and they'll deliver it to your door.

It’s more padded. It’s waterproof. It now has at least three extra layers protecting the chips. It’s tough for someone to sneakily go through. And most of all, it is surprisingly cheaper to ship.

The amount of wet/broken SFRB posts I see is numerous. I’ve never seen a single post with a PFRE. If you insist on using these cardboard boxes for whatever reason, tape the whole thing.

 

[doughboy63]

This doesn’t help your current problem but I have stopped using USPS. Everyone should switch to FedEx. They have a flat rate option called OneRate. Works very similar to priority shipping through USPS. Use their packaging, flat rate, 2 day. Price is a couple bucks more than USPS, but gets even cheaper if you sign up for a free account. Can make all your labels online. Drop off at the store. Easy peasy.

 

[Jers28]

This doesn’t help your current problem but I have stopped using USPS. Everyone should switch to FedEx. They have a flat rate option called OneRate. Works very similar to priority shipping through USPS. Use their packaging, flat rate, 2 day. Price is a couple bucks more than USPS, but gets even cheaper if you sign up for a free account. Can make all your labels online. Drop off at the store. Easy peasy.

This is super helpful. I ship and receive every single day, so a solution moving forward is definitely helpful!

 

[Tommy]

I’m on the road now so no pics to assist, but a rack of chips doesn’t belong and shouldn’t be sent in a SFRB only. Put the SFRB in a PFRE, seal that up, and put it in another PFRE. (I actually use three but two works.). All the shipping supplies are free and they'll deliver it to your door.

This is very good advice. To add to this, the Priority Mail Small Box, Model: Box - 1096L (Size: 9-7/16"(L) x 6-7/16"(W) x 2-3/16"(H)) is bigger than the SFRB box and also fits inside a PFRE that can be doubled or even tripled.

For those who don't know, you can order USPS boxes and envelopes at USPS.com and have them delivered to your door free of charge. I get 100 pack cases of PFRE (need to order it as 10 x 10) about every 2-3 months.

 

[sleepypiggly]

In the situation of the package that disappeared, ultimately I split the loss with the buyer as @liftapint suggested.

This is a tricky situation. Ultimately it sucks for all parties involved.

I've had a package lost before as the buyer. I split the cost with the seller. (USPS package said Out for Delivery... and then nothing. No more scans after that. After going to the post office to inquire, they checked the system to show that it was scanned throughout the trip, so probably lost while delivering. "Maybe it'll turn up somewhere." They said. Narrator: It did not.).

In terms of what is "fair" - there is no such thing, other than what's agreed upon or how you resolve it w/ the other party.

My personal opinion is that for personal transactions, unless it's stated before-hand - "at your risk" (as often is the case with international shipping), splitting the cost of loss/damage is the most fair. However, I also think that buying from a vendor is different. Vendors are running a business and is (or should be) insured against such shipping losses as cost of doing business. They should make the buyer whole 100% against such loss (unless they also provide a disclaimer before-hand).