Tourney Am I a scrooge? (1 Viewer)

[CraigT78]

This thread is just another reminder that I hate the "tipping" culture in the US. Why should we pay $1 to $3 per pot in a cash game as a tip? Why doesn't the casino pay their employees a better wage? I'm not saying I don't tip, I do and I tip well, but WHY is this okay? 20% of a bill is now considered standard? Why not roll that into the cost of doing business and pay a fair wage? It's insane how many places now have a tip jar.
/end rant

 

[Poker Zombie]

So you don't tip the dealer if you win a pot less than $50? Wow. I mean, I appreciate your honesty, but just, wow. Ever think about tossing them a couple bucks when they change shifts then? I don't consider it a tip for good cards, just for their efforts doing a relatively monotonous job for hours on end that pays shit. The tip comes from the player that wins the pot because, well, they won the pot, lol.

I do tip dealers when they push out... in particular, good dealers. I just don't tend to tip much just because I made a tough call, or because I overbet causing everyone else to fold. But when it's going to the river, I'm usually tipping. If it's a flop and fold hand, the pot tends to be small.

Say you get a $30 pot. That's SB ($1), BB ($3), one player limps and eventually folds ($3), a bet ($12) and a call ($12) ($31 total, but let's not split hairs). Flop comes out, you bet and everyone folds. House pulls $3 for the rake, and another buck for some crazy jackpot. That's 13% of my winnings, gone. Now I'm expected to hand over even more of it?

At least once we hit $50, the rake has been capped. Giving up another buck is cheap but fair. If the hand is a monster, I have no issue handing over a $5 chip, because the house rake is now well below 10%.

I don't advocate others do the same, of course. As I said, I know in a cash game I'm a shitty tipper. Tournaments I tip well, as I do valets, waiters, and the pizza guy. Cash games just bring out the worst in me (hence my preference toward tourneys).

 

[derekdd23]

This thread is just another reminder that I hate the "tipping" culture in the US. Why should we pay $1 to $3 per pot in a cash game as a tip? Why doesn't the casino pay their employees a better wage? I'm not saying I don't tip, I do and I tip well, but WHY is this okay? 20% of a bill is now considered standard? Why not roll that into the cost of doing business and pay a fair wage? It's insane how many places now have a tip jar.
/end rant

Speaking of tip jars, I dont get why they are everywhere now. I cant believe how many businesses allow their employees to do this, it makes me not want to go spend my money there.

 

[DoubleEagle]

I've heard that anywhere from three to five percent is fairly standard in the industry. Doesn't mean you can't do more... I tend to factor in whether or not there's a "dealer fee" attached to the tourney buy-in as well.

The practice of loading a dealer fee into the buy-in was a game changer for me.

 

[BGinGA]

Speaking of tip jars, I dont get why they are everywhere now. I cant believe how many businesses allow their employees to do this, it makes me not want to go spend my money there.

The ones at fast food joints crack me up the most. :

 

[Jambine]

All of these questions can be answered with a simple inquiry. Ask when you buy in.

...and please don't assume the dealers are paid the same hourly as waiters. In Colorado a starting rate for a dealer is around $5 to $7 per hour (less than minimum wage)

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Cash (usually 1/2 or 2/5 NL), I tip $1 per hand whether I take the blinds or win a big pot. When dealers are entertaining or do a good job managing trouble players at the table, I'll often throw them a couple bucks out of turn.

I don't play casino tourneys very often, so I don't have an established tipping policy there.

 

[Trihonda]

The ones at fast food joints crack me up the most. :

I love the food joints that are starting to have their POS facing the customer, who is prompted to select the “tip” on the screen. No tip is an option, but you feel put on the spot... you’re a counter person at a food joint, you hand me my tray of food. I need to tip? Why, cuz the establishment doesn’t pay you well enough? Sheesh

 

[Mojo1312]

In an attempt to get this thread back on track, do you factor your tip-outs into your bankroll management at casino run tournaments?

 

[Poker Zombie]

I don't play frequently enough to warrant "bankroll management". Basically, whenever I play, I assume I will lose, and budget accordingly. Any winnings are just gravy.

 

[derekdd23]

In an attempt to get this thread back on track, do you factor your tip-outs into your bankroll management at casino run tournaments?

I always subtract tip from the win before i enter the data in my tracker for tourneys. I used to try to track everything but I never ended up looking at anything but my bottom line so I stopped.

For cash games i have never kept track of tips because that seems like way too much work.

 

[Trihonda]

I track every dollar, cash and tourney. But I don’t subtract tips from this number. If I win $1200 in a tourney and tip $40-50 (whatever) to the dealer, I actually won ($1200) for statistical purposes. If I choose to use some of my earnings to tip, cool. It doesn’t negate the win amount.

I’m also not a professional player, so I don’t need to worry about life roll money coming out of my bank roll. I can see some professionals that are extremely tight when it comes to tipping due to the fact that every dollar that comes out of their bankroll is meaningful. It affects your win rate, if you win 5 hands per hour, and tip two dollars per hand, that’s $10 per hour. Bankroll management is huge, and if you also are taking money out of your bank roll to pay rent and food and a car payment, every dollar is more important. I imagine this is also pertinent when it comes to tournament winnings.

I’ve generally heard of people tipping 2 or 3% towards their dealer When they cash or FT. I’ve heard as much as 5% being tipped, but never have I seen anyone Tipping 10%. I avg 1 MTT per week (or around 50 per Year).

Another aspect I’ve thought about is the tip usually goes to the last dealer? I’ve seen this all the time. The final table dealer gets the tips, despite the fact many dealers have helped you out on your journey to a tourney cash. Boo.

 

[allforcharity]

To answer the OP question, Yes, I am a Scrooge. I'm ethnically Chinese with Cantonese roots. I can't help it, it's genetic.

 

[upNdown]

I’ve generally heard of people tipping 2 or 3% towards their dealer When they cash or FT. I’ve heard as much as 5% being tipped, but never have I seen anyone Tipping 10%.

Where I play most of my tournaments, I'll see people tip $10 out of a $100 - $120 cash more often than not. And since it was a $90 buy-in, that's all or most of their profits. People tip well there, and maybe that has influenced my tournament tipping habits. But I'd definitely leave $50 for a $500 cash. Like I said, my percentage decreases as the cash amount increases, but yeah, it generally starts around ten percent for lower cashes, and I'm not alone.

 

[JustinInMN]

In an attempt to get this thread back on track, do you factor your tip-outs into your bankroll management at casino run tournaments?

I only log what gets to the window. Tipping is part if the expense of playing, it doesn't count as a win.

Another aspect I’ve thought about is the tip usually goes to the last dealer? I’ve seen this all the time. The final table dealer gets the tips, despite the fact many dealers have helped you out on your journey to a tourney cash. Boo.

I've only cashed in tournaments at Canterbury (my home room) so I can speak to the way they do it. The last table before the money remains in use by the TD where he has the prize chips. When you bust out you sign your place and collect. The TD also has a tip box right there and it is divided among all the dealers that dealt tournament downs. At each tournament table, the dealers mark their name and employee number on a slip so the house has a count of how many tournament downs each dealer had.

I assume dealer appreciaton is shared the same way, but I will ask next time I am in as I said above.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Another aspect I’ve thought about is the tip usually goes to the last dealer? I’ve seen this all the time. The final table dealer gets the tips, despite the fact many dealers have helped you out on your journey to a tourney cash. Boo.

This is another thing that varies from casino to casino. Some places pool all the tips, and each dealer is paid a percentage based on the time they spent dealing, Some have even gone as far as to give the floor people a cut of the tip pool. I just hate to ask, because I kind of don't want to know. I want to tip the dealer that was fun and friendly, and stiff the bastard that can't deal, or doesn't even know how to chop a pot (I've seen this). I don't like the idea that shitty dealers are tipped more because they worked a longer shift than the great dealer that only worked a half-shift.

 

[Jambine]

This is another thing that varies from casino to casino. Some places pool all the tips, and each dealer is paid a percentage based on the time they spent dealing, Some have even gone as far as to give the floor people a cut of the tip pool. I just hate to ask, because I kind of don't want to know. I want to tip the dealer that was fun and friendly, and stiff the bastard that can't deal, or doesn't even know how to chop a pot (I've seen this). I don't like the idea that shitty dealers are tipped more because they worked a longer shift than the great dealer that only worked a half-shift.

That is an amazingly comprehensive view from a player (I assume you never worked as a dealer).
And if the joint is "keep your own" or "pool" definitely DON'T be generous to a shitty dealer.

 

[Señor Tony]

I love the food joints that are starting to have their POS facing the customer, who is prompted to select the “tip” on the screen. No tip is an option, but you feel put on the spot... you’re a counter person at a food joint, you hand me my tray of food. I need to tip? Why, cuz the establishment doesn’t pay you well enough? Sheesh

Isn't it fairly standard practice in the US to tip a bartender for opening a couple of brews and passing them to you over the bar?

 

[allforcharity]

I'd be surprised if most places don't pool their tips and then divide it up according to a formula. I thought this was standard practice in the service industry (at least for each identifiable service).

 

[upNdown]

Isn't it fairly standard practice in the US to tip a bartender for opening a couple of brews and passing them to you over the bar?

Yes, but brace yourself for this.
You tip a bartender for opening a beer because bartenders are paid significantly below minimum wage, because it's understood that they get tipped.
(Fast food counter workers are paid at least minimum wage.)

 

[Craig D]

Tipping dealers was deemed a security risk in my Country, and made illegal

Have Fun

 

[Mojo1312]

Another aspect I’ve thought about is the tip usually goes to the last dealer? I’ve seen this all the time. The final table dealer gets the tips, despite the fact many dealers have helped you out on your journey to a tourney cash. Boo.

The casino requires dealer's on the floor to pool their tips. Poker room dealer's keep their own, but they have to pool their tips during tournaments. I am sure the reason for this is because T-chips have no cash value.

I don't tip non-profit's when I cash, since they keep 25% for hosting the event, but at home games I usually offer the host five to ten percent of my winnings when the game is over.

 

[Anthony Martino]

In cash games I tip $1 if the pot I win is of a decent size (i.e. I didn't just steal the blinds for instance)

I will also tip a dealer even if I don't win a pot, because the tip is really for their service, not for me winning or losing pots.

I haven't hit a bad beat jackpot for five or six figures "yet" so I'm not quite sure what I'd tip in that spot

 

[Jambine]

I'd be surprised if most places don't pool their tips and then divide it up according to a formula. I thought this was standard practice in the service industry (at least for each identifiable service).

Depends on the market you're playing in. Vegas is almost all pool now (except poker). Colorado is almost all "Keep your own" on all games

 

[upNdown]

I thought of this thread yesterday as we were cashing out, and I saw what the other guy tipped. We chopped final 3, three ways - $861 each. Based on the consensus here, a 5% tip would have been generous. And as I’ve written here, I usually tip bigger than that, maybe because most people at this particular catdroom also tip a lot after tournaments.
So anyway, as they’re counting out the $861’s, I figured what the hell, I’ll be the generous guy and give him the $61. Well I wasn’t the generous guy, because the guy before me tipped $75. And generosity aside, that seems like a crazy amount, because there weren’t any $5’s in the payouts - he had to go into his pocket to find that $5.

 

[WedgeRock]

Dealers in our State are paid hourly at the same rate as waitresses and waiters.

(NSFW - language)

 

[moose]

A dealer dealing cash games can make $20-$30 per hour in tips, IF they are dealing. However they might work 2-3, 20-30min downs and then get sent on break or they might have to sit at an empty table, during which they aren't earning any tips.

The regular dealers at Horseshoe SI deal Courage's game because they can make more in straight tips that aren't declared then they can at the casino because of the taxes and lost time due to breaks, even with the addition of an hourly rate of pay (which is very low).

Dealers in a tournament lose out on the money they can make dealing cash games. In a 4 table tournament you might need 8-10 dealers to handle breaks and rotations and only one gets to deal the final table. For this reason I believe most tourney dealers pool tips and share them out with the other tourney dealers. But your tips are being spread out into a large pool of dealers.

It is hard to get full time hours at a casino. Their very nature makes the busy times evenings and weekend and yet most casinos are 24 hours. Many dealers work for years with shitty hours at the shittiest times of the day for low pay with no guarantee of full time hours.

When dealers can't earn a decent amount from tips all you will be left with is the shitty dealers who can't find work elsewhere.

When it becomes too expensive/difficult for casinos to keep a pool of dealers then you will see electronic tables replace real dealers. You already see that effect with the prevalence of electronic roulette, craps and blackjack machines.

Keep that in mind when you think whether a dealer deserves a decent tip.

 

[CraigT78]

Dealers in a tournament lose out on the money they can make dealing cash games

This is a great point. I hadn't considered this.

 

[upNdown]

At this particular place, all dealer tips, cash and tournament, are pooled daily.

 

[crussader]

This thread is just another reminder that I hate the "tipping" culture in the US. Why should we pay $1 to $3 per pot in a cash game as a tip? Why doesn't the casino pay their employees a better wage?

Lets say tipping is removed, and the casino raises wages to cover the lost revenue to the dealer. The casino has to cover their cost of doing that. The most likely result would be an increase in rake of $1 per pot to cover the extra labor cost. In the end the players will pay the same. The only difference is the player pays an extra dollar of rake which the casino takes and gives to the dealer rather than the player giving the dollar directly to the dealer. Since the cost to the player is the same, it is better to leave it as a tip because that provides a stronger incentive for good performance. Also, the player has the choice to withhold the tip to punish bad performance.

On balance, the "tipping culture" results in improved performance for the same consumer cost.