AK in late stages of a NLHE tournament, gets re-raised by Villain (1 Viewer)

[WedgeRock]

Would you do the same thing with pocket jacks?

I probably flat jacks. Not sure.

 

[WedgeRock]

Hero’s mistake here was not hitting an ace or king on the runnout.

Exactly this. My plan was to flop top top. Not sure how I got off plan.

 

[ChaosRock]

Jacks are way behind QQ while AK is flipping, and JJ also has less equity against KK than AK. Everything else is kinda the same. AK also blocks AA and KK and JJ does not.

 

[EmptyPocs]

I'd flat. I don't care if I get a few raised eyebrows for not going crazy pre-flop if it comes to a showdown.
You're not particularly desperate.
No chops? Was it home or online?

 

[WedgeRock]

Home game, paid 6. once we got down to 8, a "chop" was suggested to get 7th and 8th their buyins back.

No other chop discussion was mentioned. 3-handed, all of us had the chip lead at some point.

 

[ekricket]

Jacks are way behind QQ while AK is flipping, and JJ also has less equity against KK than AK. Everything else is kinda the same. AK also blocks AA and KK and JJ does not.

Yeah, I get the pros and cons, but I tend to play both the same way. It depends a lot, I mean a lot, on my reads on my opponents. It’s easier to shove, but more times than not I play both hands conservatively until I’m sure I know where I stand, either in my read or when my draws hit.
In this particular case, with a ladder up in play, I’d def not shove and I’d wait out the shorter stack if nothing else. Even if you win here it’s not a lockup. But the ladder would sway me here.

 

[JustinInMN]

Short stack has nearly 20BB so I don't think I am planning to fold to ladder up ever in this spot. I think I just jam.

I don't hate calling either especially in position. If I take this line I am going with it if I flop an ace, king, or the nut flush draw.

The only upside to a raise is if you are planning to call a shove and you think this path gets the chips to the middle more effectively than just jamming. (Meaning villain is going to fold to a jam too frequently.)

Fold is out here. If the short stack was under 5 bigs only then would I even think about a fold.

 

[ChaosRock]

Yeah, I get the pros and cons, but I tend to play both the same way. It depends a lot, I mean a lot, on my reads on my opponents. It’s easier to shove, but more times than not I play both hands conservatively until I’m sure I know where I stand, either in my read or when my draws hit.
In this particular case, with a ladder up in play, I’d def not shove and I’d wait out the shorter stack if nothing else. Even if you win here it’s not a lockup. But the ladder would sway me here.

My analysis of AK vs JJ is specifically for this spot, where it’s likely Villain will call only with QQ+, AK, and maybe not even all his AK. As unbelievably as it seems. I think he folds AQ and JJ. I’m assuming he’s ICMing as well…

In other occasions, I also treat JJ similarly to AK, but with aggression and not the other way around. JJ can fold hands that flips with it, or get called by lower pairs.

When in doubt, to me, aggression is the way to go.

 

[BPTDirector]

I d seen the same happen to a buddy of mine over and over with AK and we d had this exact discussion. Sorry you blanked out, but it does happen many many times like this. It really depends on how you’re running that day.

 

[ekricket]

My analysis of AK vs JJ is specifically for this spot, where it’s likely Villain will call only with QQ+, AK, and maybe not even all his AK. As unbelievably as it seems. I think he folds AQ and JJ. I’m assuming he’s ICMing as well…

In other occasions, I also treat JJ similarly to AK, but with aggression and not the other way around. JJ can fold hands that flips with it, or get called by lower pairs.

When in doubt, to me, aggression is the way to go.

I don’t disagree at all, but I don’t play infinite numbers of tournaments either.

I can say I’ve seen so many AK killed by AQ or any other two random cards that I don’t feel bad about calling an all in and then seeing all my opponent has is AK instead of a pair. The mindless, drunk, “further in a tournament than he’s been in a while” guy seems to win more times than not, and he will call your AK every time too with ATC after 5 minutes of thinking and poking fingers out and then declaring “the math says so”.

Aggression is more fun for sure, but it’s so common nowadays that trapping or releasing after the flop seems to me to be better for tourneys - reward for less risk - but a cash game would be different for sure. I’d aggro every perceived advantage then

 

[JustinInMN]

The whole concept of a made hand is bogus. It’s about the equity of your hand vs your opponents range.

THANK YOU!

Standing ovation!

 

[Highli99]

Who doesn't like to flip for their tournament life after 10 hours of grinding?

That’s literally what every tournament is. Fold for hours and flip for your life. So exhausting!

 

[JustinInMN]

That’s literally what every tournament is. Fold for hours and flip for your life. So exhausting!

You also get a standing ovation.

 

[JMGill12]

Terry (host) was the villain. You don't know the SB, but from what I can gather, he is a solid player, who makes a lot of final tables in that league and cashes a lot.

This is the key data point to me, "cashes a lot." This implies to me that he isn't doing this with only AA, and that he knows that these tiny three bets exert pressure. If you had ever seen him do this and fold, it's a clear jam. If you have only seen him do this once or twice in ~500-750+ hands and it was AA every time, then it's a "thanks for telegraphing your hand" rage fold.

 

[ChipMonster]

I’d be prone to shove here.

I was just kidding. Playing live I would’ve caught the glimmer in his eyes and known he was holding QQ and therefore would’ve just flatted and seen the flop.

 

[PokerDogDoc]

just flat...play it low variance.
If you don't hit the flop...let it go...
Your chip advantage is too big vs third spot.

First secure a heads-up and make a deal (boooooooh) or consider it a freeroll to first place....or grind it out if you think your have a skill advantage.

Yeah, I get the pros and cons, but I tend to play both the same way. It depends a lot, I mean a lot, on my reads on my opponents. It’s easier to shove, but more times than not I play both hands conservatively until I’m sure I know where I stand, either in my read or when my draws hit.
In this particular case, with a ladder up in play, I’d def not shove and I’d wait out the shorter stack if nothing else. Even if you win here it’s not a lockup. But the ladder would sway me here.

Late to the party, but this (above).
Flat and see the flop.

Your ICM implications are huge in real $ (almost double from 3rd to 2nd) which is why we play… if you don’t hit the flop you’re way behind and need to bail to maintain pressure on the small stack to make a move.

That said, I often fall into the same self-trap that you did when in these situations.

 

[dannyssteez]

Late stages of a $200 buyin, 29-person NLHE home tournament. Three players left, we are on the button.

Hero (button): ~350K in chips
3rd player (SB): ~200K in chips
Villain (BB): ~450K in chips
Blinds (IIRC) were 6K/12K with a 12K BBA. Blind structure is slow after the dinner break, with longer levels. We have been playing ~10 hours at this point.

First place: $2830
Second place: $1650
Third place: $890

Villain is a solid player, more TAG than LAG, but he has gotten caught playing a hand fast in position. A few hands previous, villain raised PF on the button, and hero called. Hero hit TPTK on the flop and checked. Villain bet $50,000 and we check-raise shoved. Villain's actions made it clear that it was just a c-bet, that he had at best a missed draw, and he folded.

In this hand, hero is on the button and finds AK suited and min-clicks to $25K (2xBB). SB folds and BB raises to 50K (4xBB) again.

If we win this hand, we have 70% of the chips in play and a good shot at taking down the tournament, but there is also a $750 ladder up to 2nd place (~4 buyins).

Should hero just flat and take a flop in position? Should hero 4-bet AK to see where he's at? Regardless of your action, what is your plan for future streets?

absolutely can not go wrong jamming, just not that deep and also only 3 handed

 

[dannyssteez]

The vote seems 60/40 in favor of jamming over flatting (with an outlier vote for raise less than all in... some people like to see the world burn). 0% fold. I think that's exactly where it should be.

If you guys saw my post in the other thread, you already know what happened. I jammed and Villain rolled over QQ. The board did not improve my hand, and I was out in 3rd.

My thought was to play for the win. If I take this pot down, I have 70% of the chips in play and solidly in the driver's seat. I don't regret my play because it gave me the best chance to win, IMO. But I've been thinking all weekend that I gave the short stack and extra $750 by busting out here. And I've been wondering if there was any chance to get away here and try to secure the $750 ladder up, or if that play is just too soft/exploitable. Flop was a complete whiff, so if I did just flat, and he bets/shoves flop, I can maybe get away from this hand losing only about 15% of my stack.

After this hand, Villain had 80% of the chips on the table and I assume he won the tournament.

yeah too exploitable if your never shoving AK or even some worse hands here for 30 bigs even with icm considerations

 

[doublebooyah85]

just flat...play it low variance.
If you don't hit the flop...let it go...
Your chip advantage is too big vs third spot.

First secure a heads-up and make a deal (boooooooh) or consider it a freeroll to first place....or grind it out if you think your have a skill advantage.

Sent you a PM