Advertising Game/Recruiting Players (2 Viewers)

[chubbyone]

As I’m sure a lot of you guys/gals have experienced, I’m having trouble dealing with last minute cancellations on game night. I likely overestimated my friends interest in playing, which ok, that’s cool, I’m not trying to force anyone to play poker. However, I want to play poker, and am happy to host.

I need to expand my potential players pool, and better coordinate what I hope to be an every 3 weeks to monthly game. FWIW, it’s a 0.25/0.25 cash game after a $25 buy-in tourney. Those are stakes my friends kinda prefer, but I’d be okay bumping that if you guys think I’m more likely to find players at another level.

My few players who are serious, are already asking people outside my circle, so I’ve got them trying to recruit too, but beyond that, what’s next? Facebook post? Craigslist ad? If I get a “stranger” how do I best handle that? Anyone been in this situation and seen it through tonthe other side?

A last question, which logically follows a lack of players... what games are best 4-5 handed? Any tricks to playing short that make it more tolerable?

I’ve probably forgotten something, and I know I can’t expect my game to be an overnight success, but I just want to make sure I’m leaving no stone unturned!

Thanks!

 

[MacGrad]

Any idea why your friends are cancelling? Is it timing, stakes, length of play, etc?

When I was running poker nights on a regular basis, we'd start around 8pm and not finish until after midnight -- we'd lose players if we started too much earlier or if we finished much later (we were running 2-3 tables).

If you were short-handed, you could always run a HU tournament -- have each match end within an hour to 90 minutes, and you could base the payouts either on standings or on the # of wins.

 

[Trihonda]

My few players who are serious, are already asking people outside my circle, so I’ve got them trying to recruit too, but beyond that, what’s next? Facebook post? Craigslist ad? If I get a “stranger” how do I best handle that? Anyone been in this situation and seen it through tonthe other side?

I would strong advise against public advertisement... Seriously! You're asking for heaps of trouble inviting unknowns into your game. It isn't safe, and you just never know what you're getting. This might actual hurt recruitment of good players. Good players will appreciate you being selective, and appreciate a safe group of people (and environment) to play in.

My advise, keep to inviting people you've played with, neighbors, and allow your (trusted) players to recruit people that will be a good fit into your game. I'd also check out other local games to find players.

 

[ekricket]

Consistency is the key. Same night, same time, every week. You may be short handed for a few months, but eventually dedicated players will find you and make it part of their weekly schedule. Once it gets onto their schedule, and they can count on you, they will do their part to find other players as well so they can better enjoy the game.

What kind of tournament are you playing? turbo? or long and drawn out? We play a longer tournament and as people go out they play cash as well. The longer game seems to appeal to more people, as they can make an evening out of it and "get their moneys worth".

 

[chubbyone]

Any idea why your friends are cancelling? Is it timing, stakes, length of play, etc?

When I was running poker nights on a regular basis, we'd start around 8pm and not finish until after midnight -- we'd lose players if we started too much earlier or if we finished much later (we were running 2-3 tables).

If you were short-handed, you could always run a HU tournament -- have each match end within an hour to 90 minutes, and you could base the payouts either on standings or on the # of wins.

It’s a small sample size, only 2 planned game nights so far.

First game I had 9 invited, 6 confirmed and 2 cancels day of. One guys wife left him stranded with a kid on purpose cause they were arguing. The other guy was a friend of a friend and texted him “can’t make it.”

Second game was suppose to be yesterday, and had 8 invited 7 confirmed... 3 cancels day of. Wife issue, and two “sorry I don’t think I can make it’s”. I decided to scrap the game with only 4 people.

These aren’t people I’m extremely close with, so I can’t bust their balls into feeling guilty and coming. The guys I can are the 3 that we’re committed.

I have left stakes completely up to the players really, and the consensus seemed that “friendly” was what was appropriate.

I think trying to play Saturday is pissing off some wives who’s husbands are gone all week already. I don’t do any softball/pool/dart/bowling leagues like some of the other guys, so maybe they are finding it hard to give away a prime night? I’m thinking of switching the game night to Thursday’s and see if that works better.

 

[ekricket]

It’s a small sample size, only 2 planned game nights so far.

First game I had 9 invited, 6 confirmed and 2 cancels day of. One guys wife left him stranded with a kid on purpose cause they were arguing. The other guy was a friend of a friend and texted him “can’t make it.”

Second game was suppose to be yesterday, and had 8 invited 7 confirmed... 3 cancels day of. Wife issue, and two “sorry I don’t think I can make it’s”. I decided to scrap the game with only 4 people.

These aren’t people I’m extremely close with, so I can’t bust their balls into feeling guilty and coming. The guys I can are the 3 that we’re committed.

I have left stakes completely up to the players really, and the consensus seemed that “friendly” was what was appropriate.

I think trying to play Saturday is pissing off some wives who’s husbands are gone all week already. I don’t do any softball/pool/dart/bowling leagues like some of the other guys, so maybe they are finding it hard to give away a prime night? I’m thinking of switching the game night to Thursday’s and see if that works better.

lol, I think your day of choice is what's killing you. Weekends are hard for most people, especially if they have families, except for the occasional special occasion poker game. I think Thursday is a much better bet.

 

[chubbyone]

I would strong advise against public advertisement... Seriously! You're asking for heaps of trouble inviting unknowns into your game. It isn't safe, and you just never know what you're getting. This might actual hurt recruitment of good players. Good players will appreciate you being selective, and appreciate a safe group of people (and environment) to play in.

My advise, keep to inviting people you've played with, neighbors, and allow your (trusted) players to recruit people that will be a good fit into your game. I'd also check out other local games to find players.

This is my gut feeling too. I did find a fellow forum member on here so he’s gonna get a pass on the serial killer status.

Facebook at least would be people I know in some way shape or form, so that’s a touch different. There’s bound to be someone out of 450+ people I somehow met before that play and I didn’t realize or think to ask.

Consistency is the key. Same night, same time, every week. You may be short handed for a few months, but eventually dedicated players will find you and make it part of their weekly schedule. Once it gets onto their schedule, and they can count on you, they will do their part to find other players as well so they can better enjoy the game.

What kind of tournament are you playing? turbo? or long and drawn out? We play a longer tournament and as people go out they play cash as well. The longer game seems to appeal to more people, as they can make an evening out of it and "get their moneys worth".

I def have an issue with consistency long term because my wife is a night nurse and works every 3rd weekend. It constantly changes her schedule. But I could do a game every 3 weeks on the weekend after she works...

Game is a drawn out deep stack structure from @BGinGA

I’m definitely jumping the gun a bit here, it’s not dire status yet, but I like to get ahead of problems.

As more seasoned players. Are you guys tilted if you expected to play in an 8-9 person friendly tourney and on game night find out only 4 showed? I cancelled yesterday because I was worried the guys might think it a waste of time to only play with 4. I should have still let it go on though and showed those 3 guys that the setup/atmosphere was worth coming back to and recruiting for.

 

[MacGrad]

lol, I think your day of choice is what's killing you. Weekends are hard for most people, especially if they have families, except for the occasional special occasion poker game. I think Thursday is a much better bet.

I'd disagree, but I think it really depends on the schedules of your "serious" players.

For my poker circle, Saturdays was the best night for cards -- we never would have been able to play regularly during the week, as there would have been too many issues between kids, wives/husbands, and getting ready for work the next day.

However, we averaged a poker night once a month -- that let everyone spend the other Saturday nights with the family / significant others, and also limited the losses of the weaker players.

Before you move your night, speak with your "serious" players -- you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot just to chase the occasional attendee.

 

[Trihonda]

Here’s my take.

A single table tourney is tough... when ppl bust, they are stuck waiting until the tourney ends for the cash game to start... lame-o. If you’re going to have a tourney, I’d have two tables worth of players...

As for night, I normally host on weekend evenings, and have full games, but my invite list is around 60-70 ppl. I invite folks, and announce I have X number of seats and it’s first come (rsvp). If more than X ppl rsvp, those who were late, get placed on a standby list for the enevitable cancelation or two. Also, lay out expectations to your players. Let them know there is limited seating, and that if they need to cancel, they should give as much notice as possible.

I’ve actually had a few weekend games that were difficult to fill, and that could be for a variety of reasons... another event that same night that pulls away many regs, or maybe it’s just a bad time of year (summers are tough). I’ve had some success with Thursday nights. My weekend nights fill slower, since people won’t know their weekend plans until right before the event, or their plans might change... Thursday’s tend to fill up instantly for me...

I will add that though many people are available on thursdays, the games are shorter... my regulars (and I) tend to prefer nice long sessions (7p-5a); which is hard on a Thursday night..

 

[Jambine]

I would strong advise against public advertisement... Seriously! You're asking for heaps of trouble inviting unknowns into your game. It isn't safe, and you just never know what you're getting. This might actual hurt recruitment of good players. Good players will appreciate you being selective, and appreciate a safe group of people (and environment) to play in.

My advise, keep to inviting people you've played with, neighbors, and allow your (trusted) players to recruit people that will be a good fit into your game. I'd also check out other local games to find players.

^That^ seriously ^that^

 

[CraigT78]

This weekend marked my 2 year anniversary in hosting a monthly game. When I started I was in the same boat, I felt like it was pulling teeth to fill one table. I printed some business cards with my logo and the link to my signup genius page and hit the streets. Every single school event, kids sporting event, community function I talked up my game and handed out a card. My core players also are a key to recruiting players. Flash forward to this year and I have had 56 unique players attend one of my games this year, with 27 players attending more than 1. I have 13 players who have attended at least 7 games (out of 10 so far). I don't always fill all 20 spots each month, and other months I have a waiting list. My age bracket makes it very difficult to attend games regularly as someone always has a family obligation that will trump poker night. But I schedule the games months in advance and feel that I set a good atmosphere. Word spreads and your game will grow. Keep at it, don't get frustrated, and ask for feedback.

My email invite list is 86 strong, so many on the list that say "keep me on it, I'll make it someday" - so keep trying! Good luck!

 

[CHP TD]

I would strong advise against public advertisement... Seriously! You're asking for heaps of trouble inviting unknowns into your game. It isn't safe, and you just never know what you're getting. This might actual hurt recruitment of good players. Good players will appreciate you being selective, and appreciate a safe group of people (and environment) to play in.

My advise, keep to inviting people you've played with, neighbors, and allow your (trusted) players to recruit people that will be a good fit into your game. I'd also check out other local games to find players.

This is good advice - what ive found is the strength of your game is based on the new players. You have to keep on it. And then keep on keeping on.

I really get peeved at late dropper outers. I try not to but FFS they said they will come then flake. If numbers are tight it can kill the game just before it starts. that really sucks.

 

[phaze12]

like the people before me, public advert is usually a bad idea.

But as for filling up game. If you can, try to have a 2 table tourney. (you will always have people flake) If you get 18 to say yes and you lose 3 or 4 then you play 2 shorthanded tables. poker players are notorious for seeking out the judicious game and being lazy. So not going or going to a different game at the last minute is not uncommon.

 

[mashoo]

I really get peeved at late dropper outers. I try not to but FFS they said they will come then flake. If numbers are tight it can kill the game just before it starts. that really sucks.

I had this happen to me when I first started getting my biweekly games together. It was frustrating. The most frustrating is when people commit, and don't even text/message me to say they aren't coming. I text/message them and either it was "sorry forgot to text you I can't come" or a straight up no reply. Those guys never get a second chance from me and my poker game is all co-workers too!

I've built a solid group of 20ish co-workers and 4/5 diehards who will always play and swap shifts just to come to my game. Just keep at it, grow your list of contacts and do not be afraid to cut people! My minimum criteria for someone to get invited is "do I want to have a drink with them outside of work". That's my start lol.

I don't think it's worth having fringe/flaky players to fill a game. I'd rather play shorthanded with only 4 commits and enjoy the company of those who show up, instead of inviting flaky guys and then worrying about them showing up at all.

 

[Trihonda]

"do I want to have a drink with them outside of work"

Seriously, this is my starting point as well.

Are they the kinda person I’d want to hang out with? If yes, then others will likely feel the same, and the group will grow on its own!

 

[TexRex]

Here's 5 things I've found that help.

People being able to put it on their calendar helps a lot. Day consistency is a plus! Years ago me and another guy established a game. It was either Friday or Saturday, and it would be every 2-3 weeks. As attendance dropped, we started doing tournaments and that boosted attendance for a while. Eventually the game stopped due to low numbers.

A few years later, I started a monthly Friday game. At first I picked a Friday that worked for me. Attendance was all over the board. Then I went with 3rd Friday of the month and attendance started increasing. I picked 3rd Friday for a couple of reasons. There were no other Friday games I knew of, and 3rd Friday didn't interfere with any major holiday. I have to move it sometimes, but usually I'm able to give many weeks and possibly up to 3 months notice.

Consistent rules help. Write the rules out. Some don't like long rules, but I've found more do like knowing there is a written answer.

ABR -- Always Be Recruiting! Every game is growing or dying. Best survival strategy is to tap into other games, even bar leagues, and get to know some other players.

Organization is a huge plus. Disorganized hosts make having a game hard. If you aren't good at this, get someone who is to help.

 

[Poker Zombie]

My game started off the same way as yours, Chub.

• I would invite 6, maybe get 4.
• I once had a guy answer his phone in the middle of a game. It was his wife telling him he had to go home.
• I work a schedule similar to your wife. I'm only home once every 3 weekends, and I don't want to make every free weekend about poker.

Eventually the game dried up completely and died. So after a brief hiatus, I tried again.

I wish I could make this a shorter post, but there are a lot of critical steps to take.

Changes made:

• Day change: I moved the game from Friday night to Saturday night. The optimal day will vary based on your players and their family lives. Young guys can always go out during the week, but once they have kids it changes. Kids in school changes that even more. Kids in college changes it yet again. Nobody can tell you what the best day is, but in past polls, I've found Saturday night is the best night for most PCF'ers. For my age group, I found people were tired on Friday after working all day. They didn't want to go from work to my game and be up until midnight or 1am. At a certain age 20 hour days don't even sound like fun.
• Date Night: When I first started hosting, I heard a joke (can't remember exactly how it went) whose punch line was the worst thing to do was going to a friends poker game. So I had to change it up. I served dinner. This shifted it from boys night out to date night. This almost immediately quadrupled my attendance. Now it wasn't me inviting co-workers, it was me and Mrs Zombie, and it wasn't one person showing, it was two. Let me tell you, if you want a couple to show for poker night, convince the wife she wants to go.
• Keep them wanting more: Every 6 weeks, with one 3 week gap. If you host every weekend, it's easy to skip one week - there's another game coming along next weekend. If you host once a month, if you miss, the next game isn't happening for a while. The reason I put in the single 3 week gap is because some divorced players only get their kids every-other weekend. I'm not going to put my game up against time with kids, so the 3 week gap insures those players get to make at least some games - until the 3 week gap next year.
• Incentives: Think like a buisness. I "rake" the tournament for ~5% and add it to a end of the year bonus (I once called it a Holiday bonus, but later changed it to the Zombie Poker Classic bonus). The bonus originally was paid to the highest finishing player at the last game of the year that had attended at least 3 games. Nobody cared, until an infrequent player won the tournament, and second place (a regular) took home more money than 1st because of the bonus. I later changed that to at least 50% attendance over the year, and today it's over 50% attendance to be eligible for the bonus. This year we have 19 players eligible. That's a serious improvement over the days where we were playing 4 handed.
• Be ready for more: Have a plan for a 2nd table. Once at 2 tables, have a plan for a third. It doesn't need to be great - a tablecloth on a blanket on a dining room table works. Best to play on an emergency table than to stress over having too many.
  
• Always Be Recruiting: Tex hit on this above, but I will reiterate. Keep your game on the tip of your tongue. There are a lot of poker players out there, but they don't wear signs. If anyone seems interested, and you think they would fit in with the group mention the game - but be selective.
• Teach: One of the biggest fears about poker is that you are going to skin the newbie. Movies and poker's reputation have perpetuated this idea. We teach a "Poker School" before events for new players. We give them a cheat sheet (hand rankings) on a 4x6 card. We even give new players a card that allows them to ask for assistance from another player so if they're in a tough spot for their tournament life they can rely on someone else's opinion to help. Of the 19 players eligible for the ZPC bonus this year, 12 of them never played poker before attending our game.

Over the years, my group has become very solid. Guys that play in big dollar circus games prefer my game, despite the low ($20) tournament entry. I've had one player fly from Buffalo to Nashville to play in my game. One of my players is Canadian. Her mom came down from Canada for a visit, and they both attended my game, rather than say "I can't make it my mom is in town". We've had adult children that have grown up and moved away, that were in town and attended with their parents.

Make your game something people don't want to miss. In fact, I rarely call mine anything other than "events", because it's not all about the game.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Tons of great advice mentioned already. I will add: be flexible!!!

Talk to the players that do show up and make sure you are playing what they want and at the stakes they want, as reasonable as possible.

I recently started hosting on a cash game on a monthly basis again. I used to have a weekly game before kids, then it became the random game a few times a year. Trying to establish a solid base of regulars has taken a while but it is happening.

My biggest change was going from trying to have the game on Friday or Saturday to Thursday night. Our group has tournaments almost every weekend so I was always having players drop once a tournament would be posted.

Once I changed to Thursday's and didn't have to complete against the tournament games my game has thrived.

My last game had 14 people sign up with 9 showing throughout the night. So even if you think you have a full table, keep recruiting, players always drop.

 

[brains613]

I've been inviting relative strangers to my games since 2009, when I started my meetup group. Only a handful of problem, none of them severe.


Currently 811 members. When I was hosting regularly, games would literally fill within ten minutes of posting. I once filled a two-table tournament posted THE SAME DAY on 30 minutes.


https://www.meetup.com/ODPCNorfolk/

Might not work for everybody, but it worked wonders for me.

 

[chubbyone]

Wow, this has been an insanely great/informative read! Without tagging everyone as replies, I do want to thank ALL of you!

My immediate plan of attack is to hit all the friends I've fallen out of touch with that I know are local on Facebook, and also have my wife let her coworkers know I got a game going, since I have met most of the husbands at some function over the last 10 years. After that, I will for sure be using this thread as "How-To".

I am going to make a facebook group to set dates and try to pool everyone that way. I cant think of an easier way, as most people already have it. Any tips on what can/can't be stated as far as legality? As long as I don't rake for profit I can advertise correct?

Again, thank you for sharing everyone, I am forever in awe at the amount worth forums provide to their respective communities.

 

[Mental Nomad]

One more thing to throw out there... outside of your core crowd, some people may be more interested in cash than than tourney. I know I fall into that group.

I regularly host cash games. I get 4 or 6 confirmed... and then 8 or 10 at the table.

I typically invite for 7:30... a four-handed or five-handed game starts sometime between 7:35 and 8:30, depending on chatting and arrival.

By 9pm we usually have six players, sometimes eight. By this point, I'm starting to get texts of, "are you guys still playing? Will you still play for a while?"

A couple people show up between 9pm and 10pm. We've had people show up as late as 11pm, by which point some of the early starters are preparing to leave.

These are things that make a cash game easier to run, but also easier to come to. I happen to personally prefer cash games, but there's no denying that it's easier to be flexible and for people not to feel "out of place" when there's no formal time structure. Sure, tourneys that allow rebuys and late buy-ins soften the blow, but it's still a problem.

FWIW, most tourneys I go to tend towards a "heads down think hard gotta win" mentality, while the cash games are a "hi guys have fun play some poker" mentality. I think this leads to more return trips.

Consider putting an intentional cash night into the rotation, and seeing how people like it.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Also a good way to get players to show up on time is to give a chip bonus if it is a tournament for people that are bought in 10 minutes before the scheduled start time.

For cash games you could do other things like a Show 'em chip to make a player show a hand if it doesn't show down.

In one raked game I play in the first 5 people to show up get to throw a dart at the dart board and get amount thrown in cash up to $25 for a Bullseye. It is a great way to make sure the game is going right at the scheduled start time.

 

[72o]

The set schedule approach has worked great for me...last Friday of every month (sometimes moved a week earlier if needed).

Picking Friday has worked great with my group, but it started out as asking people what would be easiest for them. Fridays work best for us because people start showing up right from work around 5:30 and as soon as we get 5 (and because we play cash games), we head down to the table and get started (usually around 6pm). This also means they have the rest of the weekend to commit to family or whatever else is going on.

 

[Payback]

I've been inviting relative strangers to my games since 2009, when I started my meetup group. Only a handful of problem, none of them severe.


Currently 811 members. When I was hosting regularly, games would literally fill within ten minutes of posting. I once filled a two-table tournament posted THE SAME DAY on 30 minutes.


https://www.meetup.com/ODPCNorfolk/

Might not work for everybody, but it worked wonders for me.

Same, meetup is the second best recruiting tool I have and the best part is it is pretty passive. I've never had an issue with a person on meetup since we switched over 2 years ago to the site and have had probably 100ish people come through in that time.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I have 5 players that I met through a meetup group as well. I attended the meetup group for a year before I started to poach the players that I felt would be the best match with my group.

Then I poached the head of the meet-up group.

 

[codeman00]

I'm just tagging along here because I'm in the same boat and I have a few comments.
I have two poker groups...

Friend's Cash Group
This group plays every Friday night and is run by a different person. He has a regular 10 with 3-4 others he can call to fill out the table. The game is 0.25/0.50 NL, $40 buy in that runs from 6PM - 1AM. This game is full of players that play religiously every week.

Work Group
We have about 7-8 core members, a couple of semi core, and a few fringe players. We generally play on Friday nights, $20+$5 Bounty tournament followed by cash....6:30PM to 2AM, once ever 6 weeks or so. Friday night works well for the group but we do a Saturday every once in awhile that works too. People seem to like Friday night so they can go straight from work, get the poker over on Friday night so they have the entire rest of the weekend for their family, etc. I would rather the game be on Saturdays so I can play in both games (both nights). We do have the same flake dropouts but we know who those guys are and make sure that the core is intact so we know we won't have to cancel.

One thing that allowed us to play more poker is I started having a tournament only night during week...the day determined by when I can get 7 or more players. The tournament is scheduled for 3-3.5 hrs, 6:15-9:30PM, and I've had great luck getting everyone in their seat on time with an on time chip bonus! This has worked well since many people will bust out and can go home early if needed but staying late usually means that they are in the money battling for the win.

We still have a tough time filling out the Friday work group game and sometimes the weekday tournament. The player pool doesn't include enough core players. I won't just put something out on the internet....all new players need to be recommended by others and I have to be comfortable with them. As you've noted, it's a long tough process.

I have had one serious 0.25/0.50 NL cash game at my house and brought in interested players from both groups. However, I had to wait until I knew my friend's cash group wasn't in play so I had enough players....it's tough to ask the others to play a 2nd ngiht and I don't want to pillage players from the other game. It sucks but it is what it is....until I can build up my player pool.

One route is to go out to the free (donkey) poker games at bars around the area and become friends with the players there. That's how my friend's cash group was formed. I personally can't stand paying for food and playing free poker, but if you really wanted to increase your player pool and are a social person, that might be one way.

 

[Joe Harris]

We teach a "Poker School" before events for new players. We give them a cheat sheet (hand rankings) on a 4x6 card.

What topics do you cover in poker school? Would you mind sharing the materials you have prepared?

I'm planning on a longer version of 'poker school' (~3 hours). I have 5 people interested already, so I figure I should start preparing some things for that. Any insight you have would be much appreciated.

 

[MacGrad]

You know, another plan could be mentioning when your game night is to a bunch of gambling degenerates on, say, a poker chip forum and seeing how many are interested in showing up...

 

[v1pe]

@Poker Zombie I'm quite interested in how you run your Poker School as well!

 

[chubbyone]

You know, another plan could be mentioning when your game night is to a bunch of gambling degenerates on, say, a poker chip forum and seeing how many are interested in showing up...

Lol, I take it you’re not too far over the border? I did find a player via the location thread. He has been added to the invite list. If you’re serious... PM me! Lol