93o in the Big Blind

DrStrange

Full House
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
4,947
Reaction score
9,214
Location
Outlet Mall in San Marcos
Playing $0.25/$0.50 $20 max buy in - No limit Texas Hold'em. We are eight handed. This is my monthly "cheese burger" stakes game. It attracts a roster that is a lot less interesting than the 1-2 game I commonly post about. We are six hours into the session and the stacks are relatively deep. The table is been more 'bluffy" than normal, and for some sizable river bluffs too. Even the calling stations are getting feisty. Table is stone cold sober.

Cast of characters:

SB has $150. He is loose, slightly aggressive preflop / fit-fold post flop but capable of bluffs from time to time. Generally wins.

Hero sits in the BB with $120. Hero is playing ABC TAG - everyone sees that, comments etc but still they come along. Generally wins.

UTG has $75 - normally an ultra loose calling station but the last few hours showing some signs of LAG. It is a good thing he rarely does this because he is playing MUCH better tonight with the blended styles. Big contributor most night, not so much tonight.

MP has $60. She is trying to play ABC TAG but is too loose, bets too small and calls too much. It is like she has read a book, knows the ideas but can't deliver. Modest losing player.

CO has $40. This villain is the worst poker player I have ever encountered. Ultra loose, calls way too much, can't read hands, misses bets, bets too small and too often. Her saving grace is she bleeds slowly rather than gushes. Still, almost never wins.

Button has $275. A tricky-trapping loose calling station. He would rather trick you into losing $10 than aggressively take $25. If you saw slow play in a poker dictionary it might have his picture. He bets backwards - bets draws or weakish hands and slowplays bigger hands. This is strong enough to be a good tell - if this guy is betting early, he generally doesn't have the big hand. If he raises out of the blue late in the hand, assume the worst.

The hand:

All the villains limp to hero who has :9h: :3c: in the big blind. Hero checks. Six way action, $3 in the pot.

Flop :qh: :9s: :9c:

SB checks, action on Hero. Bet or check? If betting how much? What is Hero's plan for the hand?

DrStrange
 

snooptodd

3 of a Kind
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
708
Reaction score
522
Location
Upstate NY
This is one of the occasions when I think you have to bet. You've provided a ton of information that we can use for reads, but at this point, there's nothing to read. I'd bet out $2 to $3 so you can start getting information.
 

OklahomaBill

Two Pair
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
376
Reaction score
146
Location
Oklahoma
I would Bet. That 999 looks good but the small kicker is a scare... Flop is a rainbow so unless some other player has two hearts, spades or clubs already it's a gone deal... Table is a bit Bluffy tonight... I hope someone bluffs my set... I might even raise if I was there and had eyeballs on the roster... Seem like historically ( no surprise ) aggressive players tend to win at this table. Time to be a bit LAGish and slap some other players hands away from "your" pot.


Deal the cards and pour some drinks for everyone else
 

detroitdad

Royal Flush
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
27,636
Reaction score
40,962
Location
Michigan
I agree, bet. 4 bucks in the pot preflop? I'd probably make it 4-6 bucks since your oop
 

DrStrange

Full House
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
4,947
Reaction score
9,214
Location
Outlet Mall in San Marcos
Ok bettors - so what is Hero's plan if:

A) If he gets raised? Is hero bet / folding? Hero' 93 is the worst 9 and Hero would be way far behind. Seems a little nitish to fold trips to a modest raise, but there are two more streets to bet afterwards. It could get ouchy.

B) If one or more people flat? There is ample reason to think everyone with Qx, JT and maybe gutshots would call a few bucks here. Obviously better hands would play (slow play or raise both possible). Even hands like 88 might call for a few bucks. So, how many streets is Hero thinking about betting, and roughly what sizing would he use?

Bad positions sucks -=- DrStrange
 

snooptodd

3 of a Kind
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
708
Reaction score
522
Location
Upstate NY
Ok bettors - so what is Hero's plan if:

A) If he gets raised? Is hero bet / folding? Hero' 93 is the worst 9 and Hero would be way far behind. Seems a little nitish to fold trips to a modest raise, but there are two more streets to bet afterwards. It could get ouchy.

B) If one or more people flat? There is ample reason to think everyone with Qx, JT and maybe gutshots would call a few bucks here. Obviously better hands would play (slow play or raise both possible). Even hands like 88 might call for a few bucks. So, how many streets is Hero thinking about betting, and roughly what sizing would he use?

Bad positions sucks -=- DrStrange

I would bet until raised, then use the information about the villains you provided above to determine what I should do with my hand. Only time I slow down is if tricky/trappy stays in the hand, but then I'm probably check/calling rest of the way.
 

DrStrange

Full House
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
4,947
Reaction score
9,214
Location
Outlet Mall in San Marcos
*** Onward ***

Hero checks. Checks to the button (trick-trappy) Button bets $2. SB calls. Action on Hero, call, raise or fold? If raising, how much?

NOTE: Button's bet is a reliable indication of a queen or draw. Button almost never will show up with a nine here. SB's action means almost nothing, his range barely defined.

DrStrange
 

OklahomaBill

Two Pair
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
376
Reaction score
146
Location
Oklahoma
Ok bettors - so what is Hero's plan if:

A) If he gets raised? Is hero bet / folding? Hero' 93 is the worst 9 and Hero would be way far behind. Seems a little nitish to fold trips to a modest raise, but there are two more streets to bet afterwards. It could get ouchy.

B) If one or more people flat? There is ample reason to think everyone with Qx, JT and maybe gutshots would call a few bucks here. Obviously better hands would play (slow play or raise both possible). Even hands like 88 might call for a few bucks. So, how many streets is Hero thinking about betting, and roughly what sizing would he use?

Bad positions sucks -=- DrStrange


Typing as you were.... Move up one slot


Bad position does suck... But not as much as bad cards.

A) depends on who raised... But to be honest I am a firm believer that everyone should pay to play... Good enough to call good enough to raise... If not?... then fold out and beat them next hand. A set of nines looks pretty good... The pair of queens probably small raised... The other 999 or two pair either raised or called depending on villian.

B) I call if there is a raise and call ahead of me... I raise a buck or two if no one else does.

C) If tricky/trappy raises, I take a fake phone call from his wife... " Hi Sue... Yeah he is here... No he is playing cards... No, he is busy... Ok... I will tell him you stopped by Victorias Secret and he needs to be home ASAP"

D) I raise him.

- - - - - - - - - Updated - - - - - - - - -

*** Onward ***

Hero checks. Checks to the button (trick-trappy) Button bets $2. SB calls. Action on Hero, call, raise or fold? If raising, how much?

NOTE: Button's bet is a reliable indication of a queen or draw. Button almost never will show up with a nine here. SB's action means almost nothing, his range barely defined.

DrStrange

As above

A) call
 
Last edited:

DrStrange

Full House
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
4,947
Reaction score
9,214
Location
Outlet Mall in San Marcos
*** On to the turn ***

Hero calls, all others fold. $9 in the pot, three way action.

Turn: < :qh: :9s: :9c: > :2c:

SB checks. Action on Hero. Check or bet? If betting how much?

DrStrange
 
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
157
Reaction score
31
Location
Birmingham, England
PF check is obvious
Flop seems a must bet to me - table is pretty much all stations and you have a good hand. Don't get why you check here.
Flop (2) Raise imo. We're confident we're ahead of button and it's hard to see SB being ahead. Also, we don't want to let hands like kj, kt call behind. I raise to $8-10 - as much as I think button will call with an OK queen.
Turn I don't think we can rely on button to bet for us and we clearly want a bigger pot. I think $5 sounds good but if button is liable to call more with most queens then I'd bet as much as he's likely to call.
 

Ben

Full House
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
2,531
Reaction score
2,731
Location
"The Sticks"
Bet pot on the flop - as noted, villains will call with all sorts of stuff. Checking and seeing a $2 bet from button is really bad for our hero - now we have to either flat this tiny bet and hope nothing bad happens and we can somehow get value later while OOP, or raise and force out most of the crappy hands we could have gotten value from and likely only get further action from a better hand. So I guess flat it is.

Everyone else folded? Well that was unexpected. With multiple callers I would lead most turns, but with only Tricky left in the hand I'm certainly checking again and calling any reasonable bet, maybe raising if he bets $2 again...
 

DrStrange

Full House
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
4,947
Reaction score
9,214
Location
Outlet Mall in San Marcos
We have three way action at the moment - the small blind, hero and button. Button is tricky trappy and likely does not have a nine. SB is closer to TAG (but by no means truly TAG) and hasn't defined his hand much.

DrStrange
 

Ben

Full House
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
2,531
Reaction score
2,731
Location
"The Sticks"
We have three way action at the moment - the small blind, hero and button. Button is tricky trappy and likely does not have a nine. SB is closer to TAG (but by no means truly TAG) and hasn't defined his hand much.

DrStrange

Ah OK. In that case, lead for $7. If called, check-call river (unless it's an 8 or K and SB comes out betting.)
 

snooptodd

3 of a Kind
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
708
Reaction score
522
Location
Upstate NY
It seems like the only scenario where you're beat is if button has QQ. If he does, so be it. Bet into him until the river. and if he raises the river, go away.
 

OklahomaBill

Two Pair
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
376
Reaction score
146
Location
Oklahoma
*** On to the turn ***

Hero calls, all others fold. $9 in the pot, three way action.

Turn: < :qh: :9s: :9c: > :2c:

SB checks. Action on Hero. Check or bet? If betting how much?

DrStrange

A 2? Who is dealing this Cr@9 ?

Hopefully the other players pick up on my "frustration" and think my soon to be on the table raise is a bluff. I really like my 999.
I am not counting on the button to build the pot for me at this point. You know the button better than I do... How hard can we push him? SB? He scares me a bit more is he drawing for the flush?... We will know more when the raise gets to him... Where is he going? If we check, Button will raise... And force SB to decide and us too... If we raise we force the issue... Same result but we push them.

Give both players your best squinty eyed don't mess with me look and raise them as much as the button would tolerate.
 

MoscowRadio

Flush
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
2,464
Reaction score
1,658
Location
Phoenix, AZ
This is such a good board for us to look like we're semi-bluffing. We can get called by so many worse hands, but there are also cards I don't want to see on the river such a T, K, Q, or an 8. Sure we could be betting into a better 9 or a full house, but that feels a little like "monsters-under-the-bed" thinking. This is one situation where I'd like to see an ace on the river because then we're chopping with all better 9's except for A9, K9, or Q9.
 

DrStrange

Full House
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
4,947
Reaction score
9,214
Location
Outlet Mall in San Marcos
*** Onward ***

Hero checks, button bets $4 (roughly half pot). SB calls again. $17 in the pot, Hero owes $4. Effective stacks are $118. At this point, Hero's prior experience gives Button a hand like QJ (a good queen) and we still have no idea about the small blind's hand.

Action on Hero - fold, call or raise? If raising how much?

DrStrange
 

OklahomaBill

Two Pair
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
376
Reaction score
146
Location
Oklahoma
Byrne vs Fischer

Bobby Fischer played Be6 all to gain a advantage over his opponent.

What did we do? We at right back where we were. Button made a token bet... SB rode in on his coat tails... Now WE have to decide what to do rather than make them... Would the SB have folded With a bet and a call ahead of him... We will never know. Now they are going to find out the same information about me... I would have rather gathered than give for the same $4.

Raise on the River or Limp in with the small blind at this point.

Not much value in the pot... Big Hand ( trip 9 ) Small pot with weak bets like nobody really wants it, so who's got the hand? Oh wait a second....we do.

Not much on limping personally... But since my check on the turn really didn't gather any information do I limp in on the river just to confirm that I should have bet instead of checked... Small pot/big hand not my favorite combination but infinatly better than the ever so common big pot/small hand alternative.

Lets see what the river turns... I call... to late to raise IMHPO.
 
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
157
Reaction score
31
Location
Birmingham, England
Raise. Really hard for SB to have a boat here and we're confident in our read regarding button's hand. TJ, Qx far more likely than 9x for SB and we have a decent shot at splitting vs 9x. Raise to $15 total.
 

Ben

Full House
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
2,531
Reaction score
2,731
Location
"The Sticks"
Call. Raising is totally RIO at this point, and SB's range is a lot more 9-heavy by now than it was on the previous street. Check-call river again.

If we had taken the bet-bet line, we would certainly have either a larger pot (which we still have an edge in,) or at minimum about the same sized pot with less risk of losing the hand (or have faced action to tell us we were most likely beat.) If in doubt, fire away. ;)
 

DrStrange

Full House
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
4,947
Reaction score
9,214
Location
Outlet Mall in San Marcos
*** and now the river ***

Hero calls. $21 in the pot, three way action.

River: < :qh: :9s: :9c: > :2c: :4d:

SB checks. Action on hero who is holding :9h: :3c: Bet or check? If betting, how much?

DrStrange
 

courage

Full House
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
4,260
Reaction score
6,571
If SB checks river then according to reads in OP hero is alone with trips. Avoid bet sizing tells and bet what you normally do for value and bluffs. $15-18?
 

OklahomaBill

Two Pair
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
376
Reaction score
146
Location
Oklahoma
What? No fold option?

I know that the small blind just filled out a 444 full of 99 house... That's why he has been hanging in here the whole time hoping his 2 pair boat boat comes in... Next thing we know it's " Hello Sailor " and he will have our chips... this is why I really dislike any flopped pairs as they can be a pleasure cruise or a Titanic disaster. I am going to check and when I win I will be glad... To many hands in the pot for me.
 

snooptodd

3 of a Kind
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
708
Reaction score
522
Location
Upstate NY
I think your hand is well disguised. Lots of queens will call, not many will bet. Based on what you've describe, you're going to be ahead here more often than you're behind. I bet $15 and cringe if raised, make my decision based on reads.
 

DrStrange

Full House
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
4,947
Reaction score
9,214
Location
Outlet Mall in San Marcos
*** Almost there ***

Hero bets $6. Button pauses a moment and then calls. SB raises $25 on top. ($31 total)

Pot is $39, Hero owes $25 to call. Does hero fold, call or raise? If raising, how much?

DrStrange
 

BGinGA

Royal Flush
Tourney Director
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
25,746
Reaction score
39,951
Location
Atlanta
I call and pay off the pocket fours. :(
 

Ben

Full House
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
2,531
Reaction score
2,731
Location
"The Sticks"
Snap fold. Unless villain is Durrrr, this is never a bluff, and unless villain is the biggest drooler ever, we are not beating anything he is not-bluffing with here.

Villain has Q9.
 
Top Bottom