Tourney 4 table Tourney (1 Viewer)

WhiteMamba1646

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what is a good starting stack for a 4 table tournament at a house game.

i have

325 - $25
375 - $100
300 - $500
300 - $1000
100 - $5000

in chips

should i start with 2k in chips? or 5k? or 10k?

starting blinds would be 25/50
 
gunna be roughly a 4 hour tourney. Re-buys for the first 4 blind structures and Add-ons are only available once at the end of the 4th round.
 
I like 10K but honestly any will work fine with the correct blinds. With 25 being the smallest chip though 10k probably best to have correct blinds IMO but need to answer the questions above to know for sure.
 
9 players per table so 36 people total. I was thinking 10K starting stacks but didnt know if i had enough greens unless i use 8 greens to start instead of 12.
 
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gunna be roughly a 4 hour tourney. Re-buys for the first 4 blind structures and Add-ons are only available once at the end of the 4th round.

Keep in mind a 4 table tourney ending in 4 hours is going to mean some pretty substantial jumps in blinds.

I run a 2 table tourney and we finish in roughly 5-6 hours with steady blind increases.
 
I run 36 to 40 people 10K and takes about 6 hrs so yeah maybe go 5K to keep it shorter
 
I will check when home, i think 20 min and only break every 6 rounds (2 hrs)
 
P36 x T10000 starting stacks (200BB)

L. SB/BB
1. 25/50
2. 25/75
3. 50/100
4. 75/150
5. 100/200 (Starting Point of No Continues/Rebuys)
6. 150/300
"T25 Chips, Out!"
7. 200/400
8. 300/600
9. 400/800
10. 600/1200
11. 800/1600
"T100 Chips, Out!"
12. 1000/2000
13. 1500/3000
14. 2000/4000
"T500 Chips, Out!"
15. 3000/6000
16. 4000/8000
17. 6000/12000
18. 8000/16000 ***
19. 10000/20000
20. 15000/30000
21. 20000/40000

18-Minute Levels: Tournament ends no later at L18, or 5h 24m plus breaks.
20-Minute Levels: Tournament ends no later at L18, or 6h plus breaks.
Starting at L2 (133BB) will save you 18 or 20 minutes.
Starting at L3 (100BB) will save you 36 or 40 minutes.

Starting Stacks:
8x T25
8x T100
4x T500
7x T1000
-------------
27 Chips = T10000

Colour-up armaments:
T25: 2x T100 + 7x T1000 (T7200 of T25 chips)
T100: 29x T1000 (T29000 of T100 chips)
T500: 2x T1000 + 14x T5000 (T72000 of T500 chips)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total colour-up armaments: 2x T100, 38x T1000, 14x T5000

Core set requirements:
288x T25
290x T100
144x T500
290x T1000
14x T5000
-----------------
Total: 1026 chips

Use the remaining chips of the set for rebuys/continues, add-ons, or whatever.
 
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P36 x T10000 starting stacks (200BB)

L. SB/BB
1. 25/50
2. 25/75
3. 50/100
4. 75/150
5. 100/200 (Starting Point of No Continues/Rebuys)
6. 150/300
"T25 Chips, Out!"
7. 200/400
8. 300/600
9. 400/800
10. 600/1200
11. 800/1600
"T100 Chips, Out!"
12. 1000/2000
13. 1500/3000
14. 2000/4000
"T500 Chips, Out!"
15. 3000/6000
16. 4000/8000
17. 6000/12000
18. 8000/16000 ***
19. 10000/20000
20. 15000/30000
21. 20000/40000

18-Minute Levels: Tournament ends no later at L18, or 5h 24m plus breaks.
20-Minute Levels: Tournament ends no later at L18, or 6h plus breaks.
Starting at L2 (133BB) will save you 18 or 20 minutes.
Starting at L3 (100BB) will save you 36 or 40 minutes.

Starting Stacks:
8x T25
8x T100
4x T500
7x T1000
-------------
27 Chips = T10000

Colour-up armaments:
T25: 2x T100 + 7x T1000 (T7200 of T25 chips)
T100: 29x T1000 (T29000 of T100 chips)
T500: 2x T1000 + 14x T5000 (T72000 of T500 chips)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total colour-up armaments: 2x T100, 38x T1000, 14x T5000

Core set requirements:
288x T25
290x T100
144x T500
290x T1000
14x T5000
-----------------
Total: 1026 chips

Use the remaining chips of the set for rebuys/continues, add-ons, or whatever.
This was extremely helpful thank you!
 
To be honest I don't have a problem with doing T5000 in your situation.

I mean the wisdom is more chips make a better tournament, but since you are in a time crunch and offering re-entry (meaning no one has to go home if they bust on hand 2.) I think 100BB start is sufficient.
 
To be honest I don't have a problem with doing T5000 in your situation.

I mean the wisdom is more chips make a better tournament, but since you are in a time crunch and offering re-entry (meaning no one has to go home if they bust on hand 2.) I think 100BB start is sufficient.
Or like I said before, start at L2 or L3 with the same starting stacks.
 
what is a good starting stack for a 4 table tournament at a house game.

i have

325 - $25
375 - $100
300 - $500
300 - $1000
100 - $5000

in chips

should i start with 2k in chips? or 5k? or 10k?

starting blinds would be 25/50
gunna be roughly a 4 hour tourney. Re-buys for the first 4 blind structures and Add-ons are only available once at the end of the 4th round.
9 players per table so 36 people total. I was thinking 10K starting stacks but didnt know if i had enough greens unless i use 8 greens to start instead of 12.
This structure will meet all of your requirements:

10K starting stacks (100bb)
20-minute blind levels

lvl sb bb
L1 50 100
L2 75 150
L3 125 250
L4 200 400
break, remove T25 chips
L5 300 600
L6 500 1000
L7 800 1600
L8 1200 2400
break, remove T100/T500 chips
L9 2000 4000
L10 3000 6000
L11 5000 10000
L12 8000 16000 ***
L13 12000 24000
L14 20000 40000
L15 30000 60000

Using 20-minute blind levels, events with 36 players and T10K starting stacks (100BB) will typically last no longer than L12 (4 hours plus breaks). Blind increases range from 50% to 67%, averaging 59%. Use T5000 chips for re-buys and color-ups.

Set requirements (8/8/6/6 starting stacks):

288 x T25
288 x T100
216 x T500
216 x T1000
100 x T5000 (30x for color-ups, 70x for up to 35 re-buys)
-----------------
1084 chips
 
@BGinGA From my calculations, how do you colour-up all T25 chips would be in play that would sum up to T7200? You said the rule of thumb is is to colour up to the chip that would be ALWAYS or be available for very long time.
 
I'm curious about coloring up 2 denoms at once. Do you color up the T100s, then go back and color up the T500s, or a single fell swoop?
  • T100 followed by T500, racing off chips - Takes twice as long
  • T100 followed by T500, rounding up - 50% of the time, it would give a player T1000 for a single T100 chip
  • One fell swoop, racing off chips - good chance there won't be enough cards in the deck for a race-off.
  • One fell swoop, rounding up chips - Guy with T100 gets a T1000 chip and the guy with T900 gets a single T1000 chip feels a bit unfair.
*note: I don't like roundup methods ever #EveryChipMatters
 
I'm curious about coloring up 2 denoms at once. Do you color up the T100s, then go back and color up the T500s, or a single fell swoop?
  • T100 followed by T500, racing off chips - Takes twice as long
  • T100 followed by T500, rounding up - 50% of the time, it would give a player T1000 for a single T100 chip
  • One fell swoop, racing off chips - good chance there won't be enough cards in the deck for a race-off.
  • One fell swoop, rounding up chips - Guy with T100 gets a T1000 chip and the guy with T900 gets a single T1000 chip feels a bit unfair.
*note: I don't like roundup methods ever #EveryChipMatters
I only like to colour-up one denom/colour at a time.
 
@BGinGA From my calculations, how do you colour-up all T25 chips would be in play that would sum up to T7200?
First color-up: Introduce 2x T5000 chips (10,000), getting change from the larger stack(s) needed to color-up the 288 T25s (7200). Any remaining (excess) T100 and T500 chips in the color-up change are removed from play.

Second color-up: Introduce 28x T5000 chips (140,000), getting change from the larger stack(s) if needed to color-up the T100s and T500s. Any excess T1000 chips are removed from play.

The best approach imo is to have the largest stack at each table purchase all of the small denominations in play from all of the other players (except for odd amounts), then color-up the big stack in one fell swoop. Then either race-off or round-up (my preference) all of the remaining odd chips on each table.

Never any reason to add more T100s or T500s to the table(s).. Change out a high-denomination chip, and just use the chips that are already in play.


I'm curious about coloring up 2 denoms at once. Do you color up the T100s, then go back and color up the T500s, or a single fell swoop?
  • T100 followed by T500, racing off chips - Takes twice as long
  • T100 followed by T500, rounding up - 50% of the time, it would give a player T1000 for a single T100 chip
  • One fell swoop, racing off chips - good chance there won't be enough cards in the deck for a race-off.
  • One fell swoop, rounding up chips - Guy with T100 gets a T1000 chip and the guy with T900 gets a single T1000 chip feels a bit unfair.
*note: I don't like roundup methods ever #EveryChipMatters
I color-up one denomination at a time -- in this case, first the T100s, then the T500s. Takes less time than doing it on two separate breaks. :)

*note: I don't like race-off method ever #EveryMinuteMattersAndNobodyGetsScrewed
 
I only like to colour-up one denom/colour at a time.

I'm the same way. My game last weekend we had a level where the T100s and the T500s could have been removed at the same time, but we made the decision to leave the T500s on the table for another hour (we break every hour), even though they weren't explicitly needed. Nobody seemed to notice, and the T500s were in short supply anyway (starting stacks 3 per player), so they didn't appear to slow the game down.

*note: I don't like race-off method ever #EveryMinuteMattersAndNobodyGetsScrewed

*Time I've got. Chips are harder to come by. #ShittyPlayersMatter
 
T100 followed by T500, rounding up - 50% of the time, it would give a player T1000 for a single T100 chip
And that's exactly the same results if it were done on two separate occasions with the same chip stack. Just not as noticeable.
 
I get that. It's the same as 15 minute levels with 50% increases or 30 minute levels with 100% increases. The big swing is more noticable and therefore less desired, but the effect is essentially the same.

#YouForgotTheHashtag :LOL: :laugh:
 
I get that. It's the same as 15 minute levels with 50% increases or 30 minute levels with 100% increases. The big swing is more noticable and therefore less desired, but the effect is essentially the same.

#YouForgotTheHashtag :LOL: :laugh:
#WellNotReally

There is a huge difference in how those two blind structures actually play out, especially towards the end of the level. There is zero difference in the actual amount of chips being exchanged, whether done separately or in quick succession.
 
The reason to add a pair of T100 for the first colour up is the odd amount. If there were 40 players, then it's easier. My colour up armaments in general might have a lot of T1000s. Even then I'm still confused on colouring up and the armaments needed, like to kick the T7200 of T25 chips out with a pair of T5000, and at that point there might be 3 tables remaining.
 
Yes, but you don't need to ~add~ more T100s, they are already on the table. Even with three tables, it's not a problem. Start with the table with the biggest stack, exchange the T5000, and color-up from there, then move to the next table and repeat. It's not as hard as it sounds, and it goes really.quickly.

I typically use T1000 chips to color-up T25s and T100s, but that wasn't really feasible for this particular scenario. There were already plenty of T1000s in play, and adding T5000 chips was going to be necessary for the middle and late levels of the tournament.
 
S
Yes, but you don't need to ~add~ more T100s, they are already on the table. Even with three tables, it's not a problem. Start with the table with the biggest stack, exchange the T5000, and color-up from there, then move to the next table and repeat. It's not as hard as it sounds, and it goes really.quickly.

I typically use T1000 chips to color-up T25s and T100s, but that wasn't really feasible for this particular scenario. There were already plenty of T1000s in play, and adding T5000 chips was going to be necessary for the middle and late levels of the tournament.
In other words, is this situational? And the T5000s is used as sponges to absorb the T100s, am I right? And for the second T5000, what to do with the remaining T2800? Can you explain this process through a chart?
 
I will primarily address the color ups and breaks and only briefly mention structure.

Structure -- On structure, you can use any starting stack (measured by BB) and narrow down to a time by carefully designing the blind increases and blind times. All suggestions above would work, as would other structures. I prefer, and so does our group, consistent increases between 50% and 67%. We start with 400BB and 50/100; 20 players will be finished within 4:20 85-90% of the time. The only exception to the 50-67% is the second round doubles. I'm not wild about it, but it works best for our group. If our first blind doesn't double, I get complaints that our game is too slow. It's silly, but it's pretty easy to accommodate that. And it provides a built in reward for showing up within the first round -- 2x the number of BB than if you are late.

Color ups -- Our current structure has a 100/500 color up (we start with T25). It is truly a simultaneous color up -- your total chip value on those 2 chips is what we color up you to. What I like about doing 2 at once is it saves time over doing them one at a time after different rounds. I honestly never thought of doing 2 after a round but doing them one at a time. It would work, I just think it would take a little longer. However, it wouldn't take longer overall -- just right at that color up. Obviously it would eliminate the color up after another round.

Each table is handled by itself by the dealers/table captains.

We don't use a chip race; doing 2 at once with a chip race would take longer. Coloring up doesn't take very long though. However, sometimes I find players use color ups to take longer than intended breaks.

To make the double color up work, we leave the 100s on the tables one round longer than required rather than have a color up after 2 straight blind levels. Our next color up after that is two rounds later.

We don't follow BG's system of only using high value chips to color up exactly, but we are fairly close to that. While I have purchased chip sets with the idea that we will color up every chip with the next highest value chip, in practice, we color up with the highest value chip that makes sense. I have a color up box (4x25) for a table of 10 with 100 chips in it. It has:
  • 5x either 100s or 500s (3x100 and 2x500 or normal). We don't add many lower value chips, and when we do, it's usually when coloring up one of the first players, and another player will turn in more 100s. After the first color up, we have fewer T100s on the table and usually fewer T500s as well.
  • 20x1000, primarily used to color up the T25s. Since everyone starts with 11x1000, we look to remove some of those from the table as well.
  • 50x5000. Of the 5,000 chips, up to 30 of them are used for bonus chips in the initial stacks. We start with 25,000, but give 5,000 for showing up on time and 10,000 to players who pay $5 extra to cover dealers and card expenses (and that money doesn't go in the prize pool).
  • 15x25,000. If possible, we start putting these in after the second color up. Then I look for opportunities to buy out lower value chips in a pot with them. You have to be careful though. I find if you color up a pot with 5x5000x in it with a T25,000, players will end up chopping the pot. But if there are 10x5000s, I'll color up 5 of them.
  • 10x100,000 (rarely used)
Color ups are quick and we use the round up method. One thing I found that speeds up the color up is to put a large chip tray on the table that holds 500-600 chips. Chips colored up go in that tray. After the color up is finished, the lid goes back on the color up box and the color up tray is set aside to the table staging area or the tournament staging area if it is at a break. I usually put higher value chips colored up in the color up box. For example, if in coloring up T25s, a player turns in a 500 and 3 1000s to get a 5000, those 4 chips go in the box. That makes it harder for anyone to just pick up a chip of higher value and add it to their stack.

If I'm not in the hand before the color up break, I'll start by coloring up my own chips and players next to me if they aren't in the hand. That saves a small amount of time. I don't interfere with play though so I won't go beyond the first player in either direction who is in the hand. Nor will I go past the dealer dealing that hand as we have 2 dedicated dealers in the middle of the table. Since I start siting next to one dealer, I'm often not able to do more than color my own chips up before the hand is over.

I have a staging area for each table (either a counter top or my tea cart that I'm nice enough to let my wife use for her stuff the rest of the time!). The table staging areas hold color up chip box for that table, the empty color up trays, empty or half full starting chip boxes (2 sets of starting chips per box and each table starts with 5 of those plus a color up box), empty card boxes, and extra cards in case a deck is damaged.

Then I have a tournament "staging" table that is a bit away from both tables. At the break, all starting chip boxes go to the table, and there is one tray that holds chips that have been colored up. It also holds other things I might need like the rules, extra kitchen timer (which is what I use to time rounds), etc. During the break, I start the process of putting chips back in boxes by putting the T25s back in. I try to remember to put the lid on the boxes that contain other starting chips, but sometimes find at the end of the night that I failed to do it. So far no one has snatched any chips from those boxes.

My suggestion on color ups is try it different ways and see what you find works the best for you. Other players can give you ideas, but there is no perfect method for everyone.

Breaks -- For most of our games, we have one 20-minute break at the 2 hour mark (after 6 rounds). That's when our registration period ends, unless we go to Final Table prior to then. We have short color up breaks after that -- sometimes a "take 5" break.

Some think 20 minutes is too long for a break, and some would like it to come sooner. Some would like shorter breaks. Some would like more breaks -- every 1:20 or 1:40. Like everything else, trying to keep everyone happy is a barrel of fun but completely impossible! Our system for breaks is what seems to work the best for our group. When I've surveyed players on this issue, I get all kinds of suggestions, but while nothing is the majority, the most common thing liked is our current system.

Our regular games are designed as a 4 hour game for 20 players. For our Main Event, designed as a 6 hour game for 30 players. We take a 30-40 minute dinner break after 2:20, and a shorter 10 minute break after 4:20. We have one other game that is designed for 30, but follows our regular 4 hour format. If we have more than 20 players, that game could stretch another round or two beyond the 4 hour mark. A 4-hour design is really from 3:40 to 4:20.

During our regular games, the break is used to snack and visit. I use half that time combining the color up trays and starting the process of putting chips away, then putting empty color up trays by each table. Then a bio-break, snack, and a little visiting. A shorter break doesn't give me much of a break at all. When others have suggested a shorter break, I've asked if they would be willing to help take on my tasks then to speed things up. So far that's only kept us at a 20 minute break. I only ask players who think the break needs to be shorter. I'm sure I'd have plenty of help if I asked others who are fine with a 20 minute break.

Once again, my suggestion on breaks is try different things and see what you find works best for you.
 
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