Maverick, this isn't a complete answer, but will give you some guidance.
Trihonda is right -- you need two different sets! He's right about using 4x to 5x the lower value, so you don't need 5 and 10; 25 and 50; or 5000 and 10000 in the same set. He's right about the standard with the 500/1000 being normal. As he says, you could do customs with 500/2000/10000 (and then 50000) jumps. Either works, but I'll use the 1000/5000/25000 in my answer.
Chip buying mistakes are expensive and disappointing. Think this through very carefully before you buy! Listen to those who have done this a while.
Tournament sets
Here’s a rough formula I’d use for the ratio of chips in a tournament set. The T in front of a number means "tournament" value; example, T(ournament)25.
- T25 -- 20-25% of chips (2.5-3x the T500s). Need a minimum of 8 for a larger tournament, but 12 is ideal. Many more than that and you will have 2 problems – too many of the lowest chips in play and too much spent on the chips coming out the quickest.
- T100 -- 20-25% of chips (2.5-3x the T500s). Notice the first 2 chips are going to be around 40-50% of your chips. Need more T100s than T25s, but maybe not many more. At least consider the possibility that you might do a tournament where the T100 is the smallest chip so you need a few to make up for the T25s not being there – maybe 2-4 more per player. Buying more of the chips you will remove first is too expensive and either means a lot of unnecessary chips, or lots of chips that will see little use.
- T500 -- 7-10% of chips. You should have fewer 500s than any other, so I base the # of other chips in relation to the T500s. See below for what I mean by that. If you believe in being able to completely color up the lower value chips, only get half as many T500s as others because the other half can be colored up with T1000s.
- T1000 -- 20-23% of chips. Should be 2.5-3x the number of 500s and close to the same number of lower chips. Usually after the T25s are out and definitely after the T100s are out, this is your workhorse chip for a while.
- T5000 -- 15-18% of chips. Should be 2x the # of 500s.
- For even more flexibility, consider adding a T25000. There should be 1-1.5x the # of 500s.
You could start with .25, 1, or 5 as the lowest chip. However, the T25 is perhaps the most common, and it's what many casinos use.
This works better for a T10,000 or up set. The starting amount by itself means nothing. What counts is the number of big blinds (BB).
There are so many ways to do this you could have a great tournament with anything from 100BB to 500BB in a 4 hour format.
To me, the best idea is to believe that you will alter the number of starting BB as time goes by. Therefore, always plan for a bigger starting amount than you think you will use. If you don't do that, at some point when you decide to alter your game, your chips won't accommodate changes.
General Tournament Set Rules
- Buy with the idea that you will end up needing to accommodate more players than you currently have.
- Buy with the idea that you will end up using larger chip stacks than you currently use.
- Buy with the idea that you might mix things up for some reason. I bought with the idea that we might do a fun night with larger everything on occasion -- start with smallest chip being T100 with 4x the # of starting chips. Sometimes I do that just to get my largest chips in play.
Cash sets
This info I'll repeat from another thread.
For limit poker, how many betting rounds does the average game have? The types of games you play will matter too. Draw with 2 betting rounds will not need as many chips as a game with 4 or more betting rounds. Seven card stud has 5 betting rounds. If you start playing with twists and stingers (switching a card or adding a card), you add betting rounds. I've played a version of a game called Texas Tech or double-barreled shotgun with 8 planned rounds of betting. That's expensive for anything less than 60x the limit and it needs 100x if played often. With limits you also have to consider the maximum number of raises. The higher that number is, the higher the "x factor" needs to be. A starting stack of 40-60 maximum bets gives plenty of room for play with 2-4 betting rounds. 30x might work for only a couple of betting rounds, but less than that is going to increase variance. The less serious the players are, the more important the formulas are because less serious players are likely to see bigger losses, and they aren't prepared for multiple buy-ins.
When you get to no limit, you don't know the max bet. So you look at the ante or big blind, and multiply the limit formula by 50%.
Here's an example of the lowest level game using this formula. $.01 ante; $.10 limit. $4-6 buy-in depending on games played. If it's $.01 ante; $.25 limit, $10-15 buy-in. That game with 7-card stud or comparable number of betting rounds only should probably be a $15-20 buy-in.
So when you go $.50/$1, this formula will have a buy-in of $400-600 for $10 limit; no limit maybe up to $1000. That's a pretty serious game. Most of what I hear about at that level has buy-ins nowhere near that.
General Cash Set Rules
- Denoms are good to have on the chips.
- I bought a set one with the idea most would be denominated and 2 would not be. I thought that gave me great flexibility. The first night I used the non-denominated chips, someone took one. I’ve not used the non-denoms again for chip values because it could show up as a high value chip that wasn’t earned. I've since sold the set but kept the non-denoms. I didn't want the buyer to later get burned by my old chip showing up. I'd never repeat that as I consider it a mistake now, but it seemed like a good idea at the time.
- Consider getting one denom lower as the lowest chip than you think you will play with. If you discover that in fact the $.25 as the lowest cash chip makes the game too expensive, you can then go down to $.05, but only if you have them or a substitute for them. Also if you get to the point where you want a A game and a B game for less serious players, you can accommodate both.
- Consider getting one denom higher than you think you will play with. It might be used for either re-buys, or to increase the bank when a game gets crazier than anticipated. You shouldn't need a lot of these chips.
- Look for total bank size in a set. You might like giving players 100 chips of a value, but for way less money you could buy a higher denom, have more bank, and have more flexibility. You would have fewer chips to carry if you travel with them.
- My school of thought – If you anticipate 10 players at a table, you don’t need more than 200 chips of any denom for that table, and you could get by with no more than 100-120 or so.
- If you have extra chips you don’t really use, make them higher denom chips and not chips you play with a lot that sit on the sidelines. It’s OK to have a few extras of every chip, but not a full extra rack.
A lot of people like a $20 instead of a $25. This is a matter of taste, but it's also a way that cash sets are different than tournament sets. You don't need $.05/.10; $.25/.50; $5/10; $10/20; or $25/50 in the same set.
If playing $.10/.20, I'd go with $.05 chips and use 2/4 of them. Then the rest of your chips will seem like real money, which in a cash set, is a good thing.
Some like only 3 or 4 denoms. I think more is better! My cash set has $.01; $.05; $.25; $1; $5; $20; and $100. It's very flexible, and has a lot of bank for the 700 chips. I don't really see me playing with the $.01 or with the $100, but I couldn't rule either out. The $100s increase the bank; the $.01s increase the flexibility.
Some like a mountain of chips. I don't, but at the end of the night, the more chips on the table, the greater the likelihood of counting mistakes. Real need I think is no more than 20 chips per player of any one denom, and you could get by with less than that. There's nothing wrong with more than that, but they aren't required. So I'd prefer more values with higher denoms to accommodate more bank. If one guy has 100 $1s, for the same value, he could have 20 $5s and 80 fewer chips are needed. He could have 8 $5s and 3 $20s; and 89 fewer chips used. At the end of the night, it's quicker to count the fewer chips, quicker to put them up. That player will have the same money in chips, but not his chip castle that YOU have to put up.
$35 well spent (y) :thumbsup:
