Stories of Scams on PCF? (2 Viewers)

[PlayerADK]

Have we ever tried getting a mediator service in place by the super-trusted members of the community?

Escrow kinda thing - mediator holds $ until delivery, etc

 

[detroitdad]

The best way to mitigate a gambling problem is by getting into harvesting chips! Ya know so you spend loads of time in casinos. Works awesome.

 

[bigdonkey]

I feel like such a donkey mule.

This term continues to confound me. Donkeys comprise the subspecies Equus africanus asinus. Mules are the hybridization of mating a male donkey with a female horse (mating a female donkey and a male horse results in a hinny). Mules are born sterile, therefore won't be breeding with any donkeys to produce a donkey mule. PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND!!!

 

[Lemonzest]

 

[detroitdad]

 

[inca911]

Have we ever tried getting a mediator service in place by the super-trusted members of the community? Escrow kinda thing - mediator holds $ until delivery, etc

Yes, that's been done also. The main issue is liability to/from the trusted party, plus the shipping charges are essentially double. There are folks out there who can help, just look at the PCF location thread to see what's possible. Here's one fun story I have about helping a PCFer:

"So it’s Monday night, and my phone lights up with a call from @Tommy. That’s odd. He tells me that @navels has some kind of emergency and needs my help. I know Lee’s chip hunting skills, so my spider sense goes off. I log onto PCF and make contact with Lee. A phone call later and I’m pulling cash from the safe and heading to meet some strange guy in a parking lot. Apparently the guy is looking to back out of the deal with Lee unless he gets cash in hand. Like cash that same night. As I pull into the lot, I get make/model of car and the license number—wondering if this will work out. After a quick down payment cash exchange (that I imagine looks like some kind of drug deal) I drive off writing down a few notes about the guy’s neck tattoos in case I need to testify, hoping that tomorrow’s chip exchange planning goes well. The next morning, the guy isn’t returning my texts, which is concerning as we were to plan the pickup. Finally he responds, and asks me to meet him and his partner in another parking lot for the remaining payment and chip swap. I get there early and park near a camera I spot on the building. At least there will be evidence...of my grisly demise. Both guys show up and start unloading dusty US Mint bags labeled 1976. Smiling inside, I relax for the first time and know that this is real. A quick check of the bags reveals the goodies. Satisfied, the rest of the wad of cash exchanges hands and I head home to start sorting. After a few hours, the count is done and it’s all there! I send Lee some pics to sate his appetite. All-in-all, another PCF adventure!"

 

[Hornet]

 

[hdgeno]

I know you (very publicly) don’t like @Lemonzest but comparing him to drumhoss ain’t right. Regardless of how you perceive the SB buy, Perry sent chips every time someone paid him so the two situations are not the same...at all.

 

[Geremie]

Only been scammed three times since I’ve joined but luckily the value was small (<$100) in each instance.

Two of the three were well known members which is sad.

 

[Geremie]

Only scammed three times since I’ve joined but luckily the value was small (<$100) in each instance.

Two of the three were well known members which is sad.

That said, I’ve been on the receiving end of generosity many more times. Bad apples aren’t fun to encounter but I see PCF as a beautiful orchard!

 

[PlayerADK]

Only scammed three times since I’ve joined but luckily the value was small (<$100) in each instance.

Two of the three were well known members which is sad.

Well if you keep working hard you'll be able to scam for much more than that someday


Hahaha the first glance I read your post as "I've only scammed three times" not "been scammed"

Very sorry to hear about the scams though, that sucks. Any amount makes me sick!

 

[softchewy]

Here is a bit of unsolicited advice that may help members who are viewing this thread.

First of all, if you don't know the person you are dealing with as either a Buyer or Seller, use PayPal Goods and Services at a minimum. At least you have a chance of getting restitution. PayPal F+F is the equivalent of giving cash to a guy you just met on the street for something to be delivered by another dude tomorrow. I've done that for @navels , but we both knew the risks that were involved (e.g., me ended up dead in a gutter). If the Buyer/Seller isn't your friend, they haven't earned the trust involved with F+F.

People often think that as a Seller they are safe using F+F, since they physically see the money in their PayPal account before they ship. However, that is NOT the case. If you accept PayPal F+F as payment you should also trust the person implicitly. PayPal has a glaring loophole where a person can pay via F+F using a credit card, the funds can be fully received by the seller, and then the buyer can file a claim with their credit card company at a later date claiming fraud. A Seller can't see the manner of payment from a Buyer (i.e., Credit Card vs. Bank Account), and PayPal will 100% side with the BUYER and take the money back from the seller to reverse the deal if a fraud claim with a credit card is submitted. They will NOT help the Seller to get anything from the Buyer, and will 100% return the money even though chips were received. What's really evil is that the period that someone has to file a credit card claim varies based on their credit card provider, so you aren't safe until several months have passed. That's a potential scam just waiting to happen to someone, so I'm publicizing it here to hopefully save someone a huge heartbreak by using PayPal in the incorrect manner.

Also important is to always protect packages against loss/theft/damage, if you cannot afford to lose them. Clearly specify where property ownership transfers in a deal (i.e., at your post office once you have a tracking number vs. chips fully delivered in the hands of the Buyer). Only the Seller can physically insure a package, but the Buyer should be offered the opportunity to pay to add insurance (or alternatively to assume the risk once a tracking number is obtained). Don't be afraid to file a mail fraud claim. Your taxes are paying for the USPS folks who do that work, and a potential felony charge is a big stick to scare someone into action.

If you do insure a package, make sure you save the receipt and document the contents and value. I sold some Harrah's $1s to @SkywayParkFR . The chips made it to France, but then went missing. Without the saved receipt, I would have been toast. I kept had the receipt, and was able to file a claim with USPS using a printout of the PCF sales screen as declaration of value. Surprisingly, the claim got paid and I was able to refund the entire amount to Thomas.

Those Harrah's $1 chips were actually purchased from a scammer named drumhoss who took money from several PCFers to harvest chips in Vegas. He accepted money in advance to harvest for members, and then gambled much of it away. I got lucky twice on those chips both by being one of the first to deal with him and receive chips + having international insurance work smoothly.

Hopefully these tips and stories help somebody in the future. Always practice safe chipping!

Some good advice here.
(one correction, USPS receives No tax dollars for operating expenses)

@Juliuslemac tried to scam some members (myself included).

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...dispute-resolution-process.34765/#post-636416
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...0-500-and-5k-secondary-scam-do-not-buy.34759/
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/feedback/2309?reloadList=1&amountFilter[0]=-1

 

[detroitdad]

I know you (very publicly) don’t like @Lemonzest but comparing him to drumhoss ain’t right. Regardless of how you perceive the SB buy, Perry sent chips every time someone paid him so the two situations are not the same...at all.

 

[FordPickup92]

I say potato?

 

[detroitdad]

I say potato?

Your wrong

 

[BarrieJ3]

Are you Fiona or the other girl? I think you’re cute and all Bill, but idk if you’re quite at their level.

 

[mike32]

Your wrong

You say your, I say you’re.

 

[detroitdad]

You say your, I say you’re.

I never claimed to be emujacated

 

[cpac54]

I never claimed to be emujacated

I completely mis-read this word!

 

[AnteAndy]

I say potato?

No it's potato.

 

[timinater]

Long gone user @Joe_E. screwed me out of around $150 or so when he agreed to do some re-shipping for me to US members. Last I heard from him he had received the box, I sent him addresses and then poof, never heard from again. Details are here

I'm a little flattered that my little GB of buttons was what he decided it was worth torching his reputation here on, to be honest.

The lesson here is that even if someone appears to be a trusted member, if they are going to be re-shipping it wouldn't hurt to obtain some sort of collateral. They can F&F money as bond, or something so that you have recourse if they don't follow through on their promise. From everything I'd heard he was a stand up and trustworthy guy, but I got burnt by that asshole.

 

[toynoob]

Long gone user @Joe_E. screwed me out of around $150 or so when he agreed to do some re-shipping for me to US members. Last I heard from him he had received the box, I sent him addresses and then poof, never heard from again. Details are here

I'm a little flattered that my little GB of buttons was what he decided it was worth torching his reputation here on, to be honest.

The lesson here is that even if someone appears to be a trusted member, if they are going to be re-shipping it wouldn't hurt to obtain some sort of collateral. They can F&F money as bond, or something so that you have recourse if they don't follow through on their promise. From everything I'd heard he was a stand up and trustworthy guy, but I got burnt by that asshole.

So weird have the buttons ever popped up?

 

[Jeff]

Yeah, the mystery of what happened to Joe E is sort of like Amelia Earhart and Jimmy Hoffa.

Disappeared without a trace and nobody can get in touch. Or will fess up to being able to get in touch. So surprising...very nice dude and he came to WCB a couple years.

 

[slisk250]

Here is a bit of advice that may help members who are viewing this thread.

First of all, if you don't know the person you are dealing with as either a Buyer or Seller, use PayPal Goods and Services at a minimum. At least you have a chance of getting restitution. PayPal F+F is the equivalent of giving cash to a guy you just met on the street for something to be delivered by another dude tomorrow. I've done that for @navels , but we both knew the risks that were involved (e.g., me dead in a gutter). If the Buyer/Seller isn't your friend, they haven't earned the trust involved with F+F.

People often think that as a Seller they are safe using F+F, since they physically see the money in their PayPal account before they ship. However, that is NOT the case. If you accept PayPal F+F as payment you should also trust the person implicitly. PayPal has a glaring loophole where a person can pay via F+F using a credit card, the funds can be fully received by the seller, and then the buyer can file a claim with their credit card company at a later date claiming fraud. A Seller can't see the manner of payment from a Buyer (i.e., Credit Card vs. Bank Account), and PayPal will 100% side with the BUYER and take the money back from the Seller to reverse the deal if a fraud claim with a credit card is submitted. They will NOT help the Seller to get anything from the Buyer, and will 100% return the money even though chips were received. What's really evil is that the period that someone has to file a credit card claim varies based on their credit card provider, so you aren't safe until several months have passed. That's a potential scam just waiting to happen to someone, so I'm publicizing it here to hopefully save someone a huge heartbreak by using PayPal in the incorrect manner.

Also important is to always protect packages against loss/theft/damage, if you cannot afford to lose them. Clearly specify where property ownership transfers in a deal (i.e., at your post office once you have a tracking number vs. chips fully delivered in the hands of the Buyer). Only the Seller can physically insure a package, but the Buyer should be offered the opportunity to pay to add insurance (or alternatively to assume the risk once a tracking number is obtained). Don't be afraid to file a mail fraud claim. Your taxes are paying for the USPS folks who do that work, and a potential felony charge is a big stick to scare someone into action.

If you do insure a package, make sure you save the receipt and document the contents and value. I sold some Harrah's $1s to @SkywayParkFR . The chips made it to France, but then went missing. Without the receipt, I would have been toast. I fortunately saved the receipt, and was able to file a claim with USPS using a printout of the PCF sales screen as declaration of value. Surprisingly, the claim got paid and I was able to refund the entire amount to Thomas.

Those Harrah's $1 chips were actually purchased from a scammer named drumhoss who took money from several PCFers to harvest chips in Vegas. He accepted money in advance (anecdotally, a lot of it via F+F), and then gambled much of it away. I got lucky twice on those chips both by being one of the first to deal with him (via G+S) and receive chips + having international insurance work smoothly.

The feedback system on PCF isn't foolproof, but it's a good start to gauge someone's trustworthiness. Feel free to ask others who may know the person whom you are dealing. Many of us PCFers have done in-person transactions on behalf of other members, taking delivery of the chips locally in person, and then sending them to the buyer. If you aren't sure, it's always better to pay a little extra to protect yourself and your chips.

Hopefully these tips and stories help somebody in the future. Always practice safe chipping!

...and some wonder why so many of those big sets I had just disappeared without listing to the public. If you make enough friends here and have good chips for sale, never need to have a risky sale. Didn't know about the potential CC F&F scam or if anyone has fallen victim here.

 

[timinater]

So weird have the buttons ever popped up?

I re-ordered them and had them delivered to the people who didn't receive them. As far as I know Joe has them all at his house and he bathes with them every night? Perhaps he has a bunch of uneven tables/chairs and they got used propping them up before he could ship them out? He hasn't surface here since mid 2018

 

[Josh Kifer]

I'm going to disappear next week with the 13 boxes of chips @BarrieJ3 sent me. Then suddenly a Jeff Kifer will appear next week with a "I got these from my uncle, wut r they $$$$" post.

Its a perfect plan....

 

[softchewy]

I re-ordered them and had them delivered to the people who didn't receive them. As far as I know Joe has them all at his house and he bathes with them every night? Perhaps he has a bunch of uneven tables/chairs and they got used propping them up before he could ship them out? He hasn't surface here since mid 2018

I had dealings with him a while back.. no issues.
Seems like he disappeared all together (I doubt it was to abscond with some buttons, no offense )

 

[detroitdad]

Yeah, the mystery of what happened to Joe E is sort of like Amelia Earhart and Jimmy Hoffa.

Disappeared without a trace and nobody can get in touch. Or will fess up to being able to get in touch. So surprising...very nice dude and he came to WCB a couple years.

It is weird. I sat next to him at the ME and we drank and chatted for hours. Couldn't have been a nicer guy.

 

[timinater]

I had dealings with him a while back.. no issues.
Seems like he disappeared all together (I doubt it was to abscond with some buttons, no offense )

I'm just going with Occam's razor my man... he got what he wanted and ghosted.

You're likely right, though.

 

[DerberAlter]

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/st-joes-chips-scammed-by-5aces.42610/