When did this community become so ??? (2 Viewers)

[kk405]

Let’s not turn this thread into another boat chip clusterduck. What @stocky has alluded to is legitimate. So are the many responses here in support of the good nature of this community. Yes there are bad apples and asshats that from time to time make us want to quit chipping, but the love we have for this hobby far exceeds the pain that a few individuals exert through their bad behavior.

More later....

 

[Denali]

I don't normally chime in on threads like this, but I want to share a bit.

I've had nothing but positive experiences/interactions with the membership on this forum. I find folks to be helpful and generous. Recent example, a member here, who doesn't know me from Adam, sent me 60 chip boxes for free, shipping included, out of sheer kindness. This goes into my karma bank and will be paid forward when opportunity presents itself. This is one example of more than a handful of similar kindnesses I've experienced. So if this community is somehow less than what it is today it must have been off-the-charts awesome before!

When I'm here, I'm all about learning about chips, obtaining some, and looking at other's chip pron! Being a relative newbie (about a year) I can't offer much comment-wise in chip knowledge pool, but I dip a toe in when I can.

I have run across the occasional thread or comment that seems potentially toxic, but I just back out and move on. Real life has enough negativity sprinkled around, so no need to add to it.

 

[ohio3302016]

I've only had one issue with this community. I have since put that individual on ignore and things have been just fine since!

 

[v1pe]

I don't think it's either. I don't know how it is in your part of the world, but here there is a new found fire in social media, and this is just part of that. I see it daily here, on Facebook, Reddit, what ever. Someone posts something and everyone jumps in with very passionate (and often times wrong) fired up comments. It's what happened in the recent threads I imagine you are referring to - and shit, you even see it quite blatantly in our politics. Meh - just don't feed the trolls. Like @k9dr said - the meet ups are amazing, I look forward to my 2 a year more than Christmas.

That dissent carries over into other aspects of our lives. It's like the world has gone on collective tilt. Social media continues to fuel that tilt to the pint we can hardly escape it. We have shorter fuses now than we used to, and go off much quicker. PCF is not immune.

Frankly I think this is a huge part of it. I haven't been around very long here, but I have seen a large uptick in vitriol/hate/assholery across all forms of social media and the internet over the last few years. I think this is partially due to what @Poker Zombie mentioned (recession, country divided by ideals/politics, etc), and partially due to the rise of the internet and the lack of accountability and anonymization it provides. 90% of the shit that gets flung online over disagreements would NEVER occur in a real life conversation or debate. People would either be way more respectful, or they would keep their ideals to themselves. In some respects this is good...people should feel entitled and comfortable providing their opinions...but in many respects it's awful because people (generally) aren't respectful online due to the anonymous nature of the interaction.

I think if we were all a little more regarding of "the golden rule" as a society, every human interaction we had would be more pleasant and productive.

Generally I think PCF is a pretty welcoming and generous community. I enjoy the chip and poker conversation, and most people are respectful. Again, I don't really have the perspective of "the old days" because I've only been around here for a year or so.

Bottom line: just don't be a dick.

 

[BGinGA]

I stand by my words

And that's worthless, if you can't or won't back them up. You've been asked many times to provide examples of either, and have never done so. Put up or shut up.

 

[johnjohn]

I just came here to learn about Majestics in April 2017 and now I can't leave. I feel really great about the chips people have sold to me and feel great about helping others build their sets with chips I've acquired. I've learned a bunch about cigars in the cigar thread and how to appreciate whiskey and not just aged rum.

I do my best to keep my word and try to give people grace. I also keep an eye out for people who share my taste in chips and get them hooked up either here/eBay/offline. So far this place has been great. Just my pov.

Game starts in 6 hours.

 

[Anthony Martino]

I'm not really active on the buying/selling side with chips, so I haven't felt the drama in question because it's not something I read or am involved with.

That being said, back on Chiptalk and here for awhile there was certainly a lot more drama in my opinion with groups of folks who didn't see eye to eye (generally on the political/social spectrum) and would bash one another at every opportunity.

That seems to have disappeared for the most part, and I find the community here is a lot less problematic than it had been in the past.

In addition, I'm no stranger to butting heads with a number of folks over the years in the forums. But I wound up meeting them at yearly events and while we may never agree on certain topics there's no hate there and we can all sit down and have a beer and play some cards.

In addition, some of the absolute most generous, selfless individuals I've ever met in my life are part of this community. And in a world that's gone to shit with people always looking out for themselves, it's a refreshing change from "the norm".

I'd have to say @Ben is tops on my list for generosity, for that time he let me bluff him off his hand and I threw down A7 s00ted bitch! And then when he let me get there with Q2 against his KK in a battle of the blinds to send him packing. They don't come anymore generous than that!

 

[kk405]

I don't see the current chipping community or environment as much different than it ever has been.

There has always been chip drama; there will always be chip drama. Can't have this large of a group of diverse (and often outspoken) individuals without it. We may share a common interest, but we aren't all mindless sheep following a common shepherd.

Lots of new faces over recent years, which is a very good thing overall imo. But it does change the group dynamics to some degree, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, either. There is still a large sense of community spirit here -- and I think one gets out of it what one puts into it.

I agree Dve, but lots of new faces and expanded PCF membership has resulted in a much higher level of interactions beyond just a small group of people that used to have a different type of a community. Inevitably, as you have also pointed out, the larger group of participants magnifies all the good and bad.

I do not think that this community is any different than it ever has been.

With all do respect David, I disagree. The community has changed. Some parts of for the better and some parts of it needs more care to improve. But change, it has (we need a Yoda emoji here!).

One person may think that member X is upstanding community member. While another member may find that member X is a total asshat. I think this community in any other community is a mirror of today’s society. What happened to the time when people could disagree on certain subjects and still remain friends. This is not the case on the Internet or In every day life.

I agree, but the major difference is that we conduct significant amount of transactions/commerce/trade on this site. PCF is a powerhouse when it comes to amount of chips that is being sold/traded, and it is in that particular department, IMO, that more care needs to be given, including a better system to vet out bad apples. If this were just a 'talk' forum similar to Twitter, I could care less what people say or do. I would just block people who I don't want to follow and interact with people I like. And I don't want to go back and reiterate what I said about Mr. Cheese in the other thread that was just locked mad, but the reality is that many members of PCF apparently knew he was a less than honorable person (an asshat, cheater, deadbeat, whatever you want to call him), yet no one had said anything publicly. For those of us who were transacting with him, or anyone like him, there is no way to know we may be doing so at an elevated risk level. So, this is not just about disagreement with members of PCF...yes, we can block those people...but it's about trying to build a better community. As a result of such bad behavior by just a few, and getting burnt by them, people start threads, there is a heated discussion, exchanges flare, and we all feel more divided and see the need to take sides, wherein most (if not all) could have been avoided if we had a mechanism to deal with the very few who give this community a bad rap.

That dissent carries over into other aspects of our lives. It's like the world has gone on collective tilt. Social media continues to fuel that tilt to the pint we can hardly escape it. We have shorter fuses now than we used to, and go off much quicker. PCF is not immune.

I agree. Social media has caused much of what we are witnessing, but it dates back generally from the early days of even AIM and how people interacted with each other. And yes, having access to our favorite sites 24/7 and constantly checking our phones is probably making us even less congenial as we are likely to post hastily now and think later.

In my humble opinion, there is certainly an ebb and flow to PCF

Very True!

Maybe I just have a false sense of what it was once like.

Maybe, maybe not. I have been around less than three years and don't know how it was on CT. I've been told that although it was a smaller community of very dedicated chippers (for the most part), it was anything but drama-free. The community has grown by a LOT in the last few years and as a couple of people have aptly pointed out, a lot more money has come into play as well. Chips have become a lot more expensive, the chips sets have expanded exponentially in the last few years, and frictions have increased. That's generally to be expected when a community expands and grows, but it also needs to have continued improvements by the higher-ups to survive and thrive and grow up!

Lastly, I see that my other thread was locked. So be it. I guess we still live by the rules of the Mods and when they decide to shut down a thread, it will happen regardless of the help we are trying to provide to the community at large by warning them of potential scammers and or cheats. But I am strongly pleading with the higher-ups to think of a better way to deal with our grievances when it comes to individuals on this site who are bad actors. We shouldn't be passing around stories of who scammed whom by PM to a few individuals. There is too much at stake here.

 

[Lemonzest]

How does someone who is a scammer still have a perfect transaction record of 42-0?

Honestly asking here. Without naming names this just seems weird.

 

[Mr Tree]

Not discounting boat chip drama, but I wonder if the board being less robust is a sign of it being a victim of its own success. Specifically how many of us know each other now from meat ups. I have an ever evolving text chat with three guys on here and separate ongoing chats with another four or so. I find that a lot of the people I know from here correspond regularly with me away from the board. I assume others who are meat up regulars experience the same so that may be killing some of the casual chit chat traffic from the site.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

All in all, I think this community is great, and I love being a part of it.

There are asshats and scammers, but they've always been there since my early days on CT. They are a part of society at large, so it would be naive to expect that we don't have any here. PCF provides a way for us to get to know each other better, talk about chips, poker, and other common interests, and build a web of trust to reduce the risk associated with buying and selling chips.

Above all, if you haven't been to (or hosted!) a meetup, do so ASAP. One of the biggest problems with text-based communication like this forum is that it's easy to forget there's a human being behind each message. Spending a weekend playing poker with these guys is by far the best way to transform this site from a semi-anonymous forum into a place where you come to hang out and chat with your friends.

 

[Jonesey07]

I was so lucky that there was a meetup no more than 15 minutes from my house only a month or so after I joined and I was invited. I got to meet so many great people from here and would strongly recommend going to one as well! I wish I could attend everyone's meetup like some of you degenerates!!

 

[v1pe]

Lastly, I see that my other thread was locked. So be it. I guess we still live by the rules of the Mods and when they decide to shut down a thread, it will happen regardless of the help we are trying to provide to the community at large by warning them of potential scammers and or cheats. But I am strongly pleading with the higher-ups to think of a better way to deal with our grievances when it comes to individuals on this site who are bad actors. We shouldn't be passing around stories of who scammed whom by PM to a few individuals. There is too much at stake here.

FWIW, your thread is still visible and IMO did the work that was intended. Whether I agree with the accusation or not, I personally appreciate these types of threads/warnings. People can do the detailed research themselves and make a final decision.

 

[detroitdad]

@detroitdad received and shipped my cpcs for me, plus is just a great guy in general.

Thank you.

I talk with Detroit Dad, 300+ miles away via text messages so often Mrs Zombie jokes about him being "someone on the side".

You mean I'm not? Your one of several PCF'ers that I have met that I consider a close friend. Hell, there area few that I haven't met that I consider close friends.

@detroitdad - Requires his own grouping.

Compliment? lol

Its really simple. You don't have to have the last word. Voicing your opinion in a respectful way is perfectly fine, and even encouraged. However, you do not have to have the last word.

Two. Fricken treat each other as you wish to be treated.

B

Oh, and listen to @David O He is a wealth of knowledge on treating each other compassionately.

 

[David O]

I agree Dve, but lots of new faces and expanded PCF membership has resulted in a much higher level of interactions beyond just a small group of people that used to have a different type of a community. Inevitably, as you have also pointed out, the larger group of participants magnifies all the good and bad.



With all do respect David, I disagree. The community has changed. Some parts of for the better and some parts of it needs more care to improve. But change, it has (we need a Yoda emoji here!).



I agree, but the major difference is that we conduct significant amount of transactions/commerce/trade on this site. PCF is a powerhouse when it comes to amount of chips that is being sold/traded, and it is in that particular department, IMO, that more care needs to be given, including a better system to vet out bad apples. If this were just a 'talk' forum similar to Twitter, I could care less what people say or do. I would just block people who I don't want to follow and interact with people I like. And I don't want to go back and reiterate what I said about Mr. Cheese in the other thread that was just locked mad, but the reality is that many members of PCF apparently knew he was a less than honorable person (an asshat, cheater, deadbeat, whatever you want to call him), yet no one had said anything publicly. For those of us who were transacting with him, or anyone like him, there is no way to know we may be doing so at an elevated risk level. So, this is not just about disagreement with members of PCF...yes, we can block those people...but it's about trying to build a better community. As a result of such bad behavior by just a few, and getting burnt by them, people start threads, there is a heated discussion, exchanges flare, and we all feel more divided and see the need to take sides, wherein most (if not all) could have been avoided if we had a mechanism to deal with the very few who give this community a bad rap.




I agree. Social media has caused much of what we are witnessing, but it dates back generally from the early days of even AIM and how people interacted with each other. And yes, having access to our favorite sites 24/7 and constantly checking our phones is probably making us even less congenial as we are likely to post hastily now and think later.



Very True!




Maybe, maybe not. I have been around less than three years and don't know how it was on CT. I've been told that although it was a smaller community of very dedicated chippers (for the most part), it was anything but drama-free. The community has grown by a LOT in the last few years and as a couple of people have aptly pointed out, a lot more money has come into play as well. Chips have become a lot more expensive, the chips sets have expanded exponentially in the last few years, and frictions have increased. That's generally to be expected when a community expands and grows, but it also needs to have continued improvements by the higher-ups to survive and thrive and grow up!

Lastly, I see that my other thread was locked. So be it. I guess we still live by the rules of the Mods and when they decide to shut down a thread, it will happen regardless of the help we are trying to provide to the community at large by warning them of potential scammers and or cheats. But I am strongly pleading with the higher-ups to think of a better way to deal with our grievances when it comes to individuals on this site who are bad actors. We shouldn't be passing around stories of who scammed whom by PM to a few individuals. There is too much at stake here.

Ken, I am ok with you disagreeing but I stand by my statement. It has not changed. Once again we get out of it what we put into it. I have the same interactions with people that I have had and it is not because of this forum. It is because I have been active, met folks at meet ups and have been involved.

On you second point, I agree that PCF is a "powerhouse" but there are many that do not transact like you or I do, so their exposure is much less than ours . We transact because we choose to transact here but this is not a chip selling site. I pick and choose who I transact with and will continue to do so. I just choose to not out anyone publicly until I have spoken with them first. I do not have a problem with letting people know whether I "trust' someone or not. I just think it is better to do privately rather than doing it publicly. I have given or sent $1000's to people on this forum and will continue to do so. I have had great transactions with members that other have had a problem with and vice versa. You and I may think differently but that does not make you or I wrong, just different. This a collectors site and yes there are chips sales but the primary reason for this forum is to talk about chips and other poker related topics.

On a different note I have seen the posts about meet ups. Yes, this is a great way to see some of the members and get to know who each of them really are. I have a couple of people that I met at my first meet up years ago. Let me give you one quick story about one individual.

I will change the name to protect the innocent or guilty, whichever way that you see it. I first met AGoutGB through this forum. He was a little slow to respond to some of my questions and I thought it was odd it took so long, but I later found out how many pm's this person got. My perception was he was ignoring me at first but such was not the case. I saw some of his posts and sometimes thought he was an asshat. What I did find out is he is always willing to help even if he disagrees with you. When he does disagree with you he does not have a problem letting you know it by being to the point. Some may call it being an asshat but I do the same in business and I am called a hero or great businessman for doing it.

So, I finally get to meet AGoutGB in person and he looked nothing like I thought he would look like although I really did not know what to expect. We got off to the side of the action and introduced ourselves. He excused himself and came back with a package of chips containing what I was looking for as holders for my edge spot collection. I thought he had forgotten but he had every chip I was looking for. Several chips included in this package which one of them was a Gulfport $1. We agree on the price which if I remember correctly was zero dollars. He did ask that if I completed the set that I would return the Gulfport $1, which I did. I also got the pleasure of sitting next to his wife during the meetup tournament. We both agreed that she has to be a Saint being married to him! LOL. I will also say he was one of the first among many that either called me or sent me their personal phone number to call them if I need anything when my wife passed. That my friends are what true friends are all about!

Anyway, my point from the story is we should not be quick to judge people we meet through an internet forum. We all can be quick to judge but should not unless we know for certain who we are dealing with. There are many great people here and my experience is the same as it has been for some time. Now I try to follow many by example. Yes I give away stuff but I am not here for the praise. I am here to help and I hope that people see me for what I am. A chip collector who wants to truly help grow this community and keep it going in a positive (Not quantity but quality) direction.

I may have more to add later but I am working!

Keep on Chipping!
David O

 

[RichMahogany]

However, you do not have to have the last word.

How about having a last word instead of the last word? (Attempting to add some levity to this topic)

 

[Jonesey07]

AGoutGB sure does sound like an asshat..

He was very kind to bring samples up to the meetup here and was the driving force behind me participating the Mountain Top group buy. If I had never sampled those chips before I never would have purchased them but AGoutGB went out of his way to explain the differences in chips to me, from clay to ceramic to hybrid and even had multiple sizes of them to show how they stacked, shuffled, etc. It was a huge help to be able to handle the chips and understand some of the chip lingo in person instead of trying to understand it just by reading.

 

[v1pe]

How about having a last word instead of the last word? (Attempting to add some levity to this topic)

View attachment 198411

View attachment 198410

This guy speaks my language.

 

[WhiteMamba1646]

im new to the chip community. I've yet to exchange money or chips with someone that gave me a bad taste in my mouth so i must be really lucky lol. Everyone i've worked with seem's to have the same passion and excitement about the chip community as a whole. Nothing but a good experience so far for me.

 

[bsdunbar1]

I've had nothing but positive experiences/interactions with the membership on this forum. I find folks to be helpful and generous.

^this 100%^
I consider myself lucky to be able to say that. My friends & family are shocked at what these people, most of whom we have never met, do for each other. There will always be bad apples or disagreements but it's amazing how certain people are able to distance themselves from those situations and other can't. Both on here and in real life.

 

[v1pe]

Ken, I am ok with you disagreeing but I stand by my statement. It has not changed. Once again we get out of it what we put into it. I have the same interactions with people that I have had and it is not because of this forum. It is because I have been active, met folks at meet ups and have been involved.

On you second point, I agree that PCF is a "powerhouse" but there are many that do not transact like you or I do, so their exposure is much less than ours . We transact because we choose to transact her but this is not a chip selling site. I pick and choose who I transact with and will continue to do so. I just choose to not out anyone publicly until I have spoken with them first. I do not have a problem with letting people know whether I "trust' someone or not. I just think it is better to do rather than doing it publicly. I have given or sent $1000's to people on this forum and will continue to do so. I have had great transactions with members that other have had a problem with and vice versa. You and I may think differently but hat does not make you or I wrong, just different. This a collectors site and yes there are chips sales but the primary reason for this forum is to talk about chips and other poker related topics.

On a different note I have seen the posts about meet ups. Yes this is a great way to see some of the members and get to know who each of them really are. I have a couple of people that I met at my first meet up years ago. Let me give you one quick story about one individual.

I will change the name to protect the innocent or guilty, whichever way that you see it. I first met AGoutGB through this forum. He was a little slow to respond to some of my questions and I thought it was odd it took so long, but I later found out how many pm's this person got. My perception was he was ignoring me at first but such was not the case. I saw some of his posts and sometimes thought he was an asshat. What I did find out is he is always willing to help even if he disagrees with you. When he does disagree with you he does not have a problem letting you know it by being to the point. Some may call it being an asshat but I do the same in business and I am called a hero or great businessman for doing it.

So, I finally get to meet AGoutGB in person and he looked nothing like I thought he would look like although I really did not know what to expect. We got off to the side of the action and introduced ourselves. He excused himself and came back with a package of chips containing what I was looking for as holders for my edge spot collection. I thought he had forgotten but he had every chip I was looking for. Several chips included in this package which one of them was a Gulfport $1. We agree on the price which if I remember correctly was zero dollars. He did ask that if I completed the set that I would return the Gulfport $1, which I did. I also got the pleasure of sitting next to his wife during the meetup tournament. We both agreed that she has to be a Saint being married to him! LOL. I will also say he was one of the first among many that either called me or sent me their personal phone number to call them if I need anything when my wife passed. That my friends are what true friends are all about!

Anyway, my point from the story is we should not be quick to judge people we met through an internet forum. We all can be quick to judge but should not unless we know for certain who we are dealing with. There are many great people her and my experience is the same as it has been for some time. Now I try to follow many by example. Yes I give away stuff but I am not her for the praise. I am here to help and I hope that people see me for what I am. A chip collector who wants to truly help grow this community and keep it going in a positive (Not quantity but quality) direction.

I may have more to add later but I am working!

Keep on Chipping!
David O

Can I like this post twice? (I suppose "QFT" is effectively that).

 

[atomiktoaster]

Not discounting boat chip drama, but I wonder if the board being less robust is a sign of it being a victim of its own success. Specifically how many of us know each other now from meat ups. I have an ever evolving text chat with three guys on here and separate ongoing chats with another four or so. I find that a lot of the people I know from here correspond regularly with me away from the board. I assume others who are meat up regulars experience the same so that may be killing some of the casual chit chat traffic from the site.

I think the increased number and importance of the meat ups in the past 2-3 years really might have an unintended negative effect on the experience on the board. I think it's kind of ridiculous how many comments have basically been "come to the meats ups, everybody there is great!" when stocky might be exhibit A for "not everybody has easy access to meat ups".

 

[Pinball]

Personally I like this community a lot.

Why:

- Tons of good advice (structur @BGinGA (you Stud structur is still in use), Chips, Spots colours @ allofyou)
- I asked once for one Paulson Vineyard Chip. Soon a Chipper sent me one for free.
- @p5woody who help me a lot for my Black Diamond limit set
- All buying and selling went good, even we had to ship over seas
- All dealing with people was nice even we didn't got a deal at the end

and there are many more reasons why I spend some spare time here...

I hope for the future of PCF that we get a long well with each other (different opinion can be good), that theres no cheating in the commuity and that I find some more Chippers for my home games.

Pinball

 

[Poker Zombie]

I think the increased number and importance of the meat ups in the past 2-3 years really might have an unintended negative effect on the experience on the board. I think it's kind of ridiculous how many comments have basically been "come to the meats ups, everybody there is great!" when stocky might be exhibit A for "not everybody has easy access to meat ups".

...host it, and they will come.
Exhibit B Nearest PCF'er, is about 2,800 miles away. Sure, Australia is pretty remote, but there are at least 6 members in Australia/NZ.

...and the weather can be a hell of a lot warmer.

...and I want an excuse to go back.

 

[WhiteMamba1646]

Love to come to one of these meet ups!

 

[detroitdad]

...host it, and they will come.
Exhibit B Nearest PCF'er, is about 2,800 miles away. Sure, Australia is pretty remote, but there are at least 6 members in Australia/NZ.

...and the weather can be a hell of a lot warmer.

...and I want an excuse to go back.

in

 

[k9dr]

...host it, and they will come.
Exhibit B Nearest PCF'er, is about 2,800 miles away. Sure, Australia is pretty remote, but there are at least 6 members in Australia/NZ.

...and the weather can be a hell of a lot warmer.

...and I want an excuse to go back.

Not to mention, @Gunnar is hosting a meet-up in Iceland and 10 PCF'ers have signed up to go. If you host it, we will come. I would love to attend a meet-up in Oz and get the chance to thank @stocky in person for my Iron Bank chips

 

[FDLmold]

I love you guys.

 

[Chris Manzoni]

As a relatively new member, I'd say it's almost all positive vibes and good people as far as I can tell. I would wonder though, who would EVER want to bring politics into discussions about poker chips and similar stuff? That seems like a recipe for an absolute disaster. I just yesterday unlocked the politics board just out of curiosity, I would never chime in over there, and it doesn't seem that active which is probably a good thing.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

As a relatively new member, I'd say it's almost all positive vibes and good people as far as I can tell. I would wonder though, who would EVER want to bring politics into discussions about poker chips and similar stuff? That seems like a recipe for an absolute disaster. I just yesterday unlocked the politics board just out of curiosity, I would never chime in over there, and it doesn't seem that active which is probably a good thing.

For the record, Donald Trump is the worst thing to happen to poker chips since Barack Obama.