Do people have a problem with these Aria knockoff ceramics? (8 Viewers)

[v1pe]

I’m not sure what the big deal is it’s against company policy for me to give my job title, or place of employment on social media that relates to my workplace.

I have every right to join the forum anonymously... There will be no band or fanfare, because there will be no reveal.

I can shut up, that's fine. I thought this place would be a good place to hang out with hobbyists, learn more, give opinions. So I found a topic that I feel strongly about, gave my opinions from my experiences and background, and now I can't because I won't give you my birthday, name, workplace, mothers maiden name? Maybe this isn't the place for me. You're right.

Fine with me if you can't reveal your company. I think it makes total sense and think you should continue to share your insights.

 

[MacGrad]

Sorry @CHP TD ... I went looking through the old posts, and didn't find the one where you have all your personal information, job responsibilities, bona fide, etc listed for the forum's consumption... Could you point us to the proper area?

If he wants to remain anonymous, that's his right -- just like it's your right to believe what he has to say or not.

 

[CHP TD]

I’m not sure what the big deal is it’s against company policy for me to give my job title, or place of employment on social media that relates to my workplace.

I have every right to join the forum anonymously... There will be no band or fanfare, because there will be no reveal.

I can shut up, that's fine. I thought this place would be a good place to hang out with hobbyists, learn more, give opinions. So I found a topic that I feel strongly about, gave my opinions from my experiences and background, and now I can't because I won't give you my birthday, name, workplace, mothers maiden name? Maybe this isn't the place for me. You're right.

Look at it from our point of veiw.

Your saying you have personal experience and expertise. Then you say i wont tell you who i am, add we are supposed to believe you?

I mean really have a think about how you look - you could be just a 6 year old trolling us?

So yeah you come to this site, speak with authority and ownership then fail to demonstrate any credentials to do so.

You, however have only made baseless claims with complete anonymity. Just like a troll.

So forgive me if im sounding like this is not a friendly site. It is. You have alot of work to do before anyone here will take you seriously and you havce started this relationship withthe community in a very bad way.

So you might want to think about that. You started it and so far have done nothing to prove any of you claims.

so yeah tell me why i should treat you with any respect? You haven't shown any.

 

[BGinGA]

Look at it from our point of veiw.

Your saying you have personal experience and expertise. Then you say i wont tell you who i am, add we are supposed to believe you?

I mean really have a think about how you look - you could be just a 6 year old trolling us?

So yeah you come to this site, speak with authority and ownership then fail to demonstrate any credentials to do so.

You, however have only made baseless claims with complete anonymity. Just like a troll.

So forgive me if im sounding like this is not a friendly site. It is. You have alot of work to do before anyone here will take you seriously and you havce started this relationship withthe community in a very bad way.

So you might want to think about that. You started it and so far have done nothing to prove any of you claims.

so yeah tell me why i should treat you with any respect? You haven't shown any.

Certainly entitled to your opinion, but I doubt it's shared by very many here, if any. And pretty unfriendly, imo.

 

[v1pe]

Look at it from our point of veiw.

Your saying you have personal experience and expertise. Then you say i wont tell you who i am, add we are supposed to believe you?

I mean really have a think about how you look - you could be just a 6 year old trolling us?

So yeah you come to this site, speak with authority and ownership then fail to demonstrate any credentials to do so.

You, however have only made baseless claims with complete anonymity. Just like a troll.

So forgive me if im sounding like this is not a friendly site. It is. You have alot of work to do before anyone here will take you seriously and you havce started this relationship withthe community in a very bad way.

So you might want to think about that. You started it and so far have done nothing to prove any of you claims.

so yeah tell me why i should treat you with any respect? You haven't shown any.

Guilty until proven innocent?

 

[colter ripton]

Look at it from our point of veiw.

Your saying you have personal experience and expertise. Then you say i wont tell you who i am, add we are supposed to believe you?

I mean really have a think about how you look - you could be just a 6 year old trolling us?

So yeah you come to this site, speak with authority and ownership then fail to demonstrate any credentials to do so.

You, however have only made baseless claims with complete anonymity. Just like a troll.

So forgive me if im sounding like this is not a friendly site. It is. You have alot of work to do before anyone here will take you seriously and you havce started this relationship withthe community in a very bad way.

So you might want to think about that. You started it and so far have done nothing to prove any of you claims.

so yeah tell me why i should treat you with any respect? You haven't shown any.

Yeah, you kinda sound like a dick dude. I mean I understand what your saying, but @Lovejoyz doesnt have to tell you or anyone else where he works or what his full name is.

As far as I can tell he wasn't trolling anyone or saying anything out of line. He was just discussing his opinion on the subject in the op.

I wondered about the we and our statements myself, but there is no reason to demand an answer. He said he couldnt say.....so lets just leave it at that. Let the guy share his opinion. You dont have to believe it......that's up to you.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I'm kinda in CHP TD's camp. To speak with real authority, you need to build up some serious cred. Sure, Lovejoy can remain anonymous, I don't take issue with that, but he cannot seriously expect us to take what he has to say about the industry at anything more than face value.

I would like to meet lovejoy at a meet up someday. Add some cred to who he is, and if he's for real, a real asset to the community .

Not that making a meet up is required either.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Look at it from our point of veiw.

Your saying you have personal experience and expertise. Then you say i wont tell you who i am, add we are supposed to believe you?

I mean really have a think about how you look - you could be just a 6 year old trolling us?

So yeah you come to this site, speak with authority and ownership then fail to demonstrate any credentials to do so.

You, however have only made baseless claims with complete anonymity. Just like a troll.

So forgive me if im sounding like this is not a friendly site. It is. You have alot of work to do before anyone here will take you seriously and you havce started this relationship withthe community in a very bad way.

So you might want to think about that. You started it and so far have done nothing to prove any of you claims.

so yeah tell me why i should treat you with any respect? You haven't shown any.

I agree with pretty much nothing in this post, apart from the comment that this is (usually) a friendly site.

Except for those of us who have met/played poker together in meatspace, we're all effectively anonymous here. Tell me that you're an astronaut or the poker room manager at Aria, I don't care. I'm going to judge you based on the quality of your posts, not who you say you are.

And when did @Lovejoyz disrespect us, apart from the perceived slight that he wouldn't identify himself? There are things about me and my job that I'm not sharing on a public website too - does that make me a worthless troll?

Name-calling and accusations because someone is required by their employer to remain anonymous? Honestly, the most disrespectful posts by far in this thread have been yours.

 

[xdan]

So, @upNdown, How many chips can I pencil you in for?

 

[Perthmike]

So, @upNdown, How many chips can I pencil you in for?

Hahahaha classic.

 

[CHP TD]

Certainly entitled to your opinion, but I doubt it's shared by very many here, if any. And pretty unfriendly, imo.

Yeah sorry all, I got way too emotional there.

Lovejoy - I am Sorry for that outburst. I have no idea why something so unimportant got me so riled up but that is no excuse for that post.

This site and the people in it have been good to me.

After a day to think about it, and to re read it. I was being a total tool and its not OK.

Again I apologize. I have no defense. I was just a tool.

 

[BGinGA]

Yeah sorry all, I got way too emotional there.

Lovejoy - I am Sorry for that outburst. I have no idea why something so unimportant got me so riled up but that is no excuse for that post.

This site and the people in it have been good to me.

After a day to think about it, and to re read it. I was being a total tool and its not OK.

Again I apologize. I have no defense. I was just a tool.

As you often preach, maybe you need a set of rules.

 

[Phantom]

Yeah sorry all, I got way too emotional there.

Lovejoy - I am Sorry for that outburst. I have no idea why something so unimportant got me so riled up but that is no excuse for that post.

This site and the people in it have been good to me.

After a day to think about it, and to re read it. I was being a total tool and its not OK.

Again I apologize. I have no defense. I was just a tool.

Good on you mate - solid work right there. Hope you are travelling well. (y) :thumbsup:

 

[pltrgyst]

These were made in China and sold to a customer in Australia. I'm unclear if US trademark law applies in China...they are a signatory to the trademark law treaty, but it doesn't appear to be in force.
http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ShowResults.jsp?treaty_id=5
If it doesn't apply, why would a US trademark be relevant to a customer in those countries?

The Trademark Law Treaty does not address validity or enforcement of trademarks. It simply provides procedural guidance for trademark offices.

You can get international trademark protection in two ways:

1. By applying separately for a trademark in each nation in which you desire protection, or

2. By applying for broad international protection under the Madrid Agreement and the Madrid Protocol, which process is administered by WIPO.

You can find the list of Madrid members here: http://www.wipo.int/madrid/en/members/. They include China, Australia, and the US.

I have no idea if Aria has pursued such protection, and it's very difficult to find out who has, until you get dragged into court -- and then it gets expensive in a hurry.

 

[Jeff]

Personally, not interested in tribute chips. Those who are, Godspeed. I hope no troubles from it!

 

[upNdown]

I have no idea if Aria has pursued such protection, and it's very difficult to find out who has, until you get dragged into court -- and then it gets expensive in a hurry.

Any idea if damages in those cases are restricted to actual damages (which in a hypothetical situation like these aria chips wold be negligible) or are punitive damages allowed and common?

 

[FDLmold]

Did somebody say Aria chips?

I vote affirmative.

 

[pltrgyst]

Any idea if damages in those cases are restricted to actual damages (which in a hypothetical situation like these aria chips wold be negligible) or are punitive damages allowed and common?

In trademark cases, punitive damages are available only under state laws. My understanding is that they are fairly hard to obtain. (My comment concerning costs was referring mainly to legal fees.)

In copyright cases, punitive damages are available only if the copyright was registered.

 

[Jeff]

Isn’t the most likely outcome that the lawyers come knocking telling you to cut it out and give them the ripped off chips before they haul you into court and make you spend your life savings?

 

[CHP TD]

As you often preach, maybe you need a set of rules.

Maybe a filter would help.

sometimes it looks like a good idea at the time.

Somehow it doesn't look so great the next morning... and you kind of think... I could have done that better...

Meh... I'm a work in progress.

 

[CHP TD]

Good on you mate - solid work right there. Hope you are travelling well. (y) :thumbsup:

solid work? Not my finest moment... Still you have to own your crap when you deal it out. and make amends where possible. but thanks mate.

Yeah Im going ok actually

Seems like i could use a filter from time to time. sadly that can be an after thought sometimes.

Hows the book going? any solid plans when you go on tour yet?

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Meh... I'm a work in progress.

We all are, and most of us don't recognize or acknowledge that when we screw up. That's why you're getting the props, IMO.

 

[thomasoo]

I think it is pretty fair going for replicas as long as they are made the nice way. It gives one the feeling being back in a nice casino place while being home.

I dont think casinos are loosing money if their artwork is used for private home use.

By the way everybody should admit xdan designs artworks perfectly, both Aria and Bellagio are great. I would love being able to design such artworks on my own...

 

[Lovejoyz]

Yeah sorry all, I got way too emotional there.

Lovejoy - I am Sorry for that outburst. I have no idea why something so unimportant got me so riled up but that is no excuse for that post.

This site and the people in it have been good to me.

After a day to think about it, and to re read it. I was being a total tool and its not OK.

Again I apologize. I have no defense. I was just a tool.

I also understand that protecting the integrity of the forums, earning respect, random people come in and start spouting off things, I get all of that. You're protective of this forum, and the members. I don't think your reaction was one to feel so terribly bad about. So don't.
I never intended to 'speak with authority', just give what insight I could on the topic:/ I do understand your concern about trolling. I didn't take it personally. No worries.

In trademark cases, punitive damages are available only under state laws...

And some of these are goofy also, because it depends on which Commission on Gaming holds the license. In the US particularly, because some of the are Indian Reservation Casinos that are ran by the State Gaming Commission, some are Indian Reservation Casinos that are run by their own Tribal Gaming Commission, some are State Gaming Agencies, some are ran by a State Commission with Federal oversight....blah blah blah. That doesn't relate directly to trademark cases, but it could make a difference on who handles it I think.

Where I'm from (again, @CHP TD I'll have to talk in code, which I know how much you love haha), if somebody made a direct replica of a local casino chip, the State Gaming Commission would take action, and it would be a state issue. However, on the other side of the state at a Tribal Casino (which the State Gaming Commission still oversees), it would be a Federal issue. I don't even know if any of that applies to this Trademark law talk. I don't know where the difference in some of those Trademark policies apply, @pltrgyst would probably know more than me on that.

 

[Lovejoyz]

I think it is pretty fair going for replicas as long as they are made the nice way. It gives one the feeling being back in a nice casino place while being home.

I dont think casinos are loosing money if their artwork is used for private home use.

By the way everybody should admit xdan designs artworks perfectly, both Aria and Bellagio are great. I would love being able to design such artworks on my own...

It isn't being used for private home use. It's being created so he can sell some sets and make money. If it was 'private home use', he wouldn't be selling sets of them, and nobody on here would know they exist (to some extent).

Well, I won't admit it, because he didn't design it...he looked at already existing casino artwork, saved it as a PDF, forwarded it to somebody on alibaba.com, and had them make it (I don't know for a fact obvi, just being a nuisance )

 

[MacGrad]

This thread reminds me of the discussion on CT regarding the "Black Cat Club" and "Le Chat Noir" customs... it woukd be interesting to see how today's chippers would respond to that situation.

Summary: one member (Toby) had custom chips made by ASM using a "Black Cat Club" theme that was designed by @Johnny5 ... shortly thereafter, it was discovered that another member had chips made that appeared to borrow heavily from that design ("Le Chat Noir"). The chips were different colors, but used the edgespots and overall inlay design as the original "Black Cat Club" ...

Was copying/tweaking another chipper's design wrong?

 

[BGinGA]

Was copying/tweaking another chipper's design wrong?

I think so, at least in that case... although "wrong" might not be the correct word. They were essentially tribute chips, and certainly drew on somebody else's original concept and design.

I thought that Toby had used relatively common cat artwork found online, and the other guy used similar artwork from the same artist (not J5, I don't think). J5 may have designed the Black Cat Club logo and stuff.

 

[Phantom]

solid work? Not my finest moment... Still you have to own your crap when you deal it out. and make amends where possible. but thanks mate.

Yeah Im going ok actually

Seems like i could use a filter from time to time. sadly that can be an after thought sometimes.

Hows the book going? any solid plans when you go on tour yet?

Unreserved apology = solid work. I think people can respect that mate

 

[Phantom]

We all are, and most of us don't recognize or acknowledge that when we screw up. That's why you're getting the props, IMO.

Absolutely this

 

[CHP TD]

I also understand that protecting the integrity of the forums, earning respect, random people come in and start spouting off things, I get all of that. You're protective of this forum, and the members. I don't think your reaction was one to feel so terribly bad about. So don't.
I never intended to 'speak with authority', just give what insight I could on the topic:/ I do understand your concern about trolling. I didn't take it personally. No worries.

Thanks i appreciate it - Notwithstanding i could have done it much better.


And some of these are goofy also, because it depends on which Commission on Gaming holds the license. In the US particularly, because some of the are Indian Reservation Casinos that are ran by the State Gaming Commission, some are Indian Reservation Casinos that are run by their own Tribal Gaming Commission, some are State Gaming Agencies, some are ran by a State Commission with Federal oversight....blah blah blah. That doesn't relate directly to trademark cases, but it could make a difference on who handles it I think.

Its interesting to me because i did not see anything to fuss about at the start. Now i see that there is some substance to the fuss.

Where I'm from (again, @CHP TD I'll have to talk in code, which I know how much you love haha), if somebody made a direct replica of a local casino chip, the State Gaming Commission would take action, and it would be a state issue. However, on the other side of the state at a Tribal Casino (which the State Gaming Commission still oversees), it would be a Federal issue. I don't even know if any of that applies to this Trademark law talk. I don't know where the difference in some of those Trademark policies apply, @pltrgyst would probably know more than me on that.

This leads me to a question. there appears to be a few jurisdictional issues. Designed in Australia (AKA copyright infringed in Australia) Made in China, Infringed in the USA.

then there is the issue of damages. So now bad are the damages. If i was a judge ruling in this case id be thinking about 2 things 1 Has the Aria trademark been used without permission. I cant see an argument that will stand up for the against. 2 then id have to work out how much harm came from it. (Also noted that judges cant make their own punishment outside what the law prescribes, and i have no idea what the USA law prescribes so i'm being a layman's judge, not a real one).

So what has the Aria lost out of it? Im struggling to see a loss here. Conversely the Aria has got lots of advertising on this site from the discussion.

Also could you imagine the bad press that would happen if any action was sought? Multi billion Corporation chases down poor aussie battler...

I see that this is a very complicated issue, and yes its pretty clear the similarities of the trade mark are striking, however I still think the harm factor is so negligible its without merit for a corporation to entertain any thought of perusing it.

But i dont think that that is what this is all about.

I really think its about an opinion, that opinion is based on a persons values - weather you think Person A should have or should not have done this. And any time values are challenged emotions come to the front. Mine did.

You care or you don't. The law is not flexible, Opinions are. You like tribute chips or you don't.

To me this is kind of 2 fleas arguing over a dog. The dog doesn't care. the 2 fleas can coexist and not run out of dog.

In some ways the whole discussion is a bit silly and some of this discussion is completely serious.

But none of it is easy or simple.

I still like the chips... I totally understand why you could hate them.

Life Hey!

Ps i have to change my signature to "Rules Nit"