OmaJack - What's Your Problem With It? (4 Viewers)

[upNdown]

isn't all of poker essentially you can play perfectly and the river kills you??

Mostly. But some games have significantly more of this kind of variance than others. @DrStrange and others point out that there are always ways of reducing your odds of getting whamboozled, and I’m all for that - find your edges where you can.

 

[Klobberer]

Didn't feel like reading entire thread...do you need to play your best Omaha hand? Or, can you tank the Omaha hand to make a 21?

 

[chippitydoodah]

You asked a question, gave a detailed answer.

I’m sorry, I should let the PCF membership go back and forth over “it’s a random river” and “all rivers are random”.

The differences between a variant and a mechanism is important, since they can be judged independently.

If you can’t think and comprehend beyond that, don’t ask the f*cking question.

Dude...fucking relax! You gave a very elaborate, thoughtful, detailed response and I appreciate you for that. But I also found humor in the use of mechanism so I jabbed fun at it. I wasn't calling you an asshole. It's just my mechanism

 

[Knoxymoron]

Perfect. Thanks for clarifying that for me. Going to give it a try

 

[quintooo]

Mostly. But some games have significantly more of this kind of variance than others. @DrStrange and others point out that there are always ways of reducing your odds of getting whamboozled, and I’m all for that - find your edges where you can.

I can understand that derailment forsure has more variance than hold em.

and maybe its because i'm a 20 something with an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex; but if i'm sitting at a circus table, i'm embracing the variance. i'm here to gamble, not win on my 5% edge over 50000 hands (though i definitely do not have an edge on any games ).

 

[RocAFella1]

I can understand that derailment forsure has more variance than hold em.

and maybe its because i'm a 20 something with an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex; but if i'm sitting at a circus table, i'm embracing the variance. i'm here to gamble, not win on my 5% edge over 50000 hands (though i definitely do not have an edge on any games ).

Wait until you try shuffle devil's dierailment

 

[BarrieJ3]

Why don’t we play more games with guts style betting?

Why don’t we play more games with locusts/horde of locusts variants?

Similarly, greater skill would lead to much greater rewards with those, while many would chalk it up more so to randomness. And you’d see far less participation to the flop and moreso post flop.

It may be as simple as time and exposure, leading its enjoyment to be in smaller groups/localizations over say pcfwide (until it becomes ubiquitous). For example guts I’ve only seen from SoCal folks, while locust I’ve only encountered in NC.

 

[BarrieJ3]

The last time I played there was a game where half the pot goes to highest spade in hand I think? @Jimulacrum

Again, completely happy to play it, but if discussing game makeup/mechanics/etc., I don’t think that lends itself over time to great gameplay/leveling/etc. more than being just a different, fun wrinkle.

I put all of these in the same general bucket.

 

[chippitydoodah]

Why don’t we play more games with guts style betting?

Why don’t we play more games with locusts/horde of locusts variants?

Similarly, greater skill would lead to much greater rewards with those, while many would chalk it up more so to randomness. And you’d see far less participation to the flop and moreso post flop.

It may be as simple as time and exposure, leading its enjoyment to be in smaller groups/localizations over say pcfwide (until it becomes ubiquitous). For example guts I’ve only seen from SoCal folks, while locust I’ve only encountered in NC.

How about Indian?

 

[WedgeRock]

I did go back and add that in. I probably should have added an asterisk or something

Un-RIFed.

 

[RocAFella1]

An OmaJack rules question I was discussing earlier - if you have AKQJT in hand and the board is AKQT2 rainbow; you have Broadway for Omaha, but do you have 30 or 21 points for Blackjack?

 

[Frogzilla]

I like omajacks

Good poker game

 

[WedgeRock]

Must make the best (highest) Omaha hand possible. Remaining 3 hole cards are what's left for blackjack.

If you played it as "best 2 for Omaha and best 3 for blackjack," I suspect you'd have a bunch of chips for 21.

 

[BarrieJ3]

Dude...fucking relax! You gave a very elaborate, thoughtful, detailed response and I appreciate you for that. But I also found humor in the use of mechanism so I jabbed fun at it. I wasn't calling you an asshole. It's just my mechanism

I was going to respond with the cat lady at dinner meme, but too lazy to put it together.

It’s not deep, people just regurgitating the same stuff every time these games come up.

 

[LowerBama1714]

Players are dealt five cards. Betting and board run out is the same as Omaha with a flop, a turn and a river. You must use the two cards from your hand that make the best possible Omaha hand . The three remaining cards in your hand are used to make your Blackjack hand. Pot is split between the winning Omaha hand and the best blackjack hand providing the Blackjack hand didn't bust. I like playing it and would love to know who else does. I'd also like to know who doesn't like it and why?

So just pot every street, right.

I’ll play.

 

[WedgeRock]

An OmaJack rules question I was discussing earlier - if you have AKQJT in hand and the board is AKQT2 rainbow; you have Broadway for Omaha, but do you have 30 or 21 points for Blackjack?

21.

You have to play the J, then can select any other card in your hand. One Broadway is not bigger than another (assuming no flush/royal), so you get to pick. You aren't obligated to play AJ.

 

[ekricket]

@ekricket @upNdown do yall like sohe? Dramaha? Scarney?

What does this have to do with what we dislike about omajack?

Nobody’s bashing anything. I just don’t like that piece of that game. It’s not banned at my house and I’ll call it at meetups.

Are you the white knight of circus games now?

 

[chippitydoodah]

Just don't mention SOHE to @krafticus

 

[FestiveKnight]

Love SOHE, dramaha is fun but not my favorite, never played scarney.

Interesting. I asked because I played a lot of hands of SOHE just a couple nights ago and I felt like full scoops are pretty rare. Which is to say, some good knowledge of odds plays into setting your omahe and HE hands but after that you're most likely playing only one of your hands.

I have never played omajack but I would assume similarly with a hand like A4589 you're gonna know pretty quickly if you're using your hand for a straight and getting away with an okay BJ hand or if your whole hand is a toss. Maybe not a perfect example but it seems like there are two issues people have: A) losing half of pot no matter what, and B) river can fuck you. This second one doesn't make sense to me, but I won't repeat what others have already said. So the first one has my interest. That's why I asked about a few games that come to mind where I think you can really clearly be playing for only half and some of the skill is figuring out how to still get value by not isolating the person playing for the other half.

IDK this variant seems fun, I'll probably try to call it for a couple orbits next time I host circus games.

What does this have to do with what we dislike about omajack?

Nobody’s bashing anything. I just don’t like that piece of that game. It’s not banned at my house and I’ll call it at meetups.

Are you the white knight of circus games now?

Right, sorry that I forgot you're literally incapable of proportional reactions.

 

[Jimulacrum]

The last time I played there was a game where half the pot goes to highest spade in hand I think? @Jimulacrum

Again, completely happy to play it, but if discussing game makeup/mechanics/etc., I don’t think that lends itself over time to great gameplay/leveling/etc. more than being just a different, fun wrinkle.

I put all of these in the same general bucket.

Yes. That's Chicago, a 7 Card Stud variant. Can also be played low spade, high diamond, etc.

I don't mind playing it because it's trivially easy against most opponents, but yeah, it's not a great game structure. You hold out for openers where you either have the (or, situationally, the or ) or a premium high hand to start. If you start with a lock on the Chicago half, of course you're going to be happy about it, but it's pretty lame as a gameplay mechanic for obvious reasons.

Omajack is a little different. The vast majority of the time, you can't know what your blackjack hand will be for sure until the last card falls. If you're drawing to something, you need to think carefully about how hitting it—or really your hand value changing in any way—may affect your blackjack points. You also need to think about the situations where your hand value is relatively fixed and seek to take advantage when you have a strong blackjack hand that won't change.

An OmaJack rules question I was discussing earlier - if you have AKQJT in hand and the board is AKQT2 rainbow; you have Broadway for Omaha, but do you have 30 or 21 points for Blackjack?

Cards speak to make the best available overall hand within the game rules, as in all games where cards speak.

In this case, that means playing the J and either the T, Q, or K for Broadway (all are equal), leaving 21 for blackjack points.

 

[WedgeRock]

I think you can really clearly be playing for only half and some of the skill is figuring out how to still get value by not isolating the person playing for the other half.

Always good to have half the pot locked up and two fish on the line both playing the other half.

 

[FestiveKnight]

The vast majority of the time, you can't know what your blackjack hand will be for sure until the last card falls

Can someone explain, using some modicum of math/statistics, the difference between this and having on a board of in HE? Am I gonna get the nut flush? Am I gonna get the second nut straight? Will a blank come and I have only A high?

 

[ekricket]

Right, sorry that I forgot you're literally incapable of proportional reactions.

No problem. I don’t have any problems staying on topic.

 

[ekricket]

Can someone explain, using some modicum of math/statistics, the difference between this and having on a board of in HE? Am I gonna get the nut flush? Am I gonna get the second nut straight? Will a blank come and I have only A high?

I think the answer in regards to what we like or dislike about Omajack is who cares?

@MrCatPants doesn’t like green chips. He still uses them. He just thinks they are ugly. The end.

 

[DrStrange]

@Klobberer not sure if your question was answered.

In Omajack, you MUST play your best Omaha hand take two cards from your hand and three cards from the board. The three leftover cards make up your blackjack hand.

In the case where you have several ways to make the same, best Omaha hand, you select your best blackjack hand while still making your best Omaha hand. This doesn't happen very often.

 

[FordPickup92]

Omajack sucks

 

[chippitydoodah]

Omajack sucks

Why though? That's what I'm trying to find out.

 

[FordPickup92]

Right, sorry that I forgot you're literally incapable of proportional reactions.

@ekricket is one of the chillest people I've ever met lmao

 

[FordPickup92]

Why though? That's what I'm trying to find out.

Personal preference I think. Alot of it is timing
People always call it when we've gone through orbit after orbit of mixed games and everyone's drunk or brain dead and they're like do this it's fun. And then it's not

 

[JMC9389]

Can't that be said about any if not most games? There's definitely winning and losing derailment players in my game and it isn't just the variance.

Perhaps, but let's say I get dealt AAKKx and I flop quads on 2 of the 3 boards. I pot it all the way and all it takes is for a 2 to come up on those two boards on the river, and I get nothing. Rare, I'm sure. But I do agree with the main premise that it's similar to God's Game. You need something going on both boards or 2 of the 3 boards to continue after the flops.

At least with most of the other games like Drawmaha, Scarney, etc, I know where I stand most times and know I have half the pot locked up.

How is this different from any other split pot game? Even less circus-y games like O8 and Stud8.

See above.

I mean, you’ve never lost a poker hand in hold ‘em or Omaha that was played perfectly only to see the river just destroy your rectal area? ;-)

All the time. See above.