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Everything you thought you knew about poker is wrong...* (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Taghkanic
- Start date
OP
OP
If you can’t tolerate detailed and obsessive discussion of poker stuff, you’re wasting time on the wrong site.
Ever read (say) any threads on the difference between long cane and short cane THCs? Checked out pics of people weighing barrels of chips to see if they are 9.7g or 10.2g? Getting down to the micro level is what this site is all about, like it or not. And you can just skip anything you don’t want to read... Write your own post.
Your reading comprehension failure ≠ me arguing against myself.
As already stated quite plainly:
Players simply do not rely on the printed denoms to determine chip values. They are using the chip colors (and secondarily the spots, if necessary) to gauge the size of a bet, stack or pot. (Note: If the inlays vary significantly, for example with shaped inlays, that may also be an identification cue... which also gets used a million years before any imaginary “reading” of the denim.)
This is proven by the fact that no one actually reads denoms during hands.
Someone puts in a stack of green—you know in that cash game they are $25s, the only question is how many. You don’t ask, “Hey, could you hold up the top chip so I can read the denom?” Nor do you look down at your own stack of greens to remember what they are worth. If you’ve been playing in the game for more than a few hands, you should already know.
This is also proven by the fact that the players who cannot remember denominations *ask their values even when the denomination is printed on the chip.* Anyone who hosts has experienced this. Such questions come from the same players who ask “is it on me?” and “what’s the bet?” every hand. The denoms make no difference.
Meanwhile, by contrast, when identifying suits people generally look simultaneously at:
1. The color of the suit (red/black, or red/blue/green/black, typically)
2. The shape of the suit
Having the first item be more precise is helpful. It may obviate the need to look twice to determine if that’s a spade or a club. Color recognition is typically faster than complex shape recognition.
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OP
OP
Those were designed specifically for people with impaired sight.
If I had anyone in my game with major vision issues, I’d try those out. (My grandfather had limited sight.)
Nice option to solve a specific problem.
But go ahead, mock their disability.
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OP
OP
Sadly enough with denoms I’ve had players ask “wait what are the red ones again?”
OP
OP
Nah. They just cried and blustered and threw around insults like babies when they got pushback on their preconceived ideas—unable to provide any actual facts to back up their arguments except “casinos use them,” “I hate A.I.” and “my widdle fingurrrs hurt when I tries to shuffle bad poker size.” See: Schopenhauer...
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OP
OP
Yup.
I have one guy in my game—extremely successful Wall Streeter, now retired to focus on philanthropy and lobbying in favor of more support for foster children. So, not a dummy and not a bad guy.
He has played in my game at least three dozen times, maybe more... Still he sometimes asks what the chips are worth. Even though much to my (self-imposed) chagrin, they have denoms on them.
I don’t know what it would take for players like that to remember.
I could have a 4x8 foot banner with the chip values hung from the ceiling across from his seat and I’m not confident it would do any good.
bUt cHiPs mUsT hAvE dEn0mZZZ
OP
OP
Generally agree, though I rarely encounter truly long tanks in any of the casino or home/private games I play in. I find this is more a thing in televised high stakes games.
In my games, if anyone takes more than 10-15 seconds to act on any street other than the river, or other than facing a huge all-in, someone usually chimes in “it’s on you.” Sometimes less.
But yeah, once in a long while you get some guy at 1/3 who seems to think he is at the final table of the Main Event.
Hi Karen
acezag
Flush
Just from an accessibility perspective, this isn't logical, which seems to be your big thing.Yup.
I have one guy in my game—extremely successful Wall Streeter, now retired to focus on philanthropy and lobbying in favor of more support for foster children. So, not a dummy and not a bad guy.
He has played in my game at least three dozen times, maybe more... Still he sometimes asks what the chips are worth. Even though much to my (self-imposed) chagrin, they have denoms on them.
I don’t know what it would take for players like that to remember.
I could have a 4x8 foot banner with the chip values hung from the ceiling across from his seat and I’m not confident it would do any good.
bUt cHiPs mUsT hAvE dEn0mZZZ
The person with a significant visual impairment or learning disability won't ever be able to differentiate the number values no matter how often you tell them, and the color blind player will always be challenged to differentiate red and green, perhaps even after dozens of sessions.
Why would we purposefully make it harder for either of those groups when most chips provide both clues?
BarrieJ3
Royal Flush
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OP
OP
Yeah, no really. Those were designed for sight-impaired people. You got a problem with them?
https://bestplayingcardsonline.com/playing-cards-for-sight-impaired/
Maybe someday you will have that problem.
I actually kind of like the minimalist design of the ones with the truly giant letters:
https://thelowvisionstore.com/products/large-print-bridge-size-playing-cards-color-may-vary
Unfortunately, these are two-color and bridge sized, bleh.
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OP
OP
No one is forcing you to read anything. And yet you’re still here.
No, you got a problem with jokes?
OP
OP
Not when it is clear the person is joking...
Anyway, the Bicycle Low Visions do have a really bonkers usability problem, unfortunately.
https://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-See-Vision-Playing-Cards/dp/B000HZZ0FS
They are four-color (triggering to some of you, I know!), but they mix colors on the club and diamond cards. What? Why? Just bizarre.
OP
OP
This one is interesting:
https://thelowvisionstore.com/products/1-1-2-inch-ezc-playing-cards?_pos=10&_sid=b0e29d46f&_ss=r
Fine print on the bottom explaining the lines:
A horizontal single line is the spade, a vertical single line is the club, two horizontal lines is the diamonds, & two vertical lines are the heart
Not sure why that is better than the suit shape, but perhaps if you really are near-blind it is helpful.
https://thelowvisionstore.com/products/1-1-2-inch-ezc-playing-cards?_pos=10&_sid=b0e29d46f&_ss=r
Fine print on the bottom explaining the lines:
A horizontal single line is the spade, a vertical single line is the club, two horizontal lines is the diamonds, & two vertical lines are the heart
Not sure why that is better than the suit shape, but perhaps if you really are near-blind it is helpful.
ekricket
Royal Flush
Yes, yes he does. I don’t think there’s any capability to understand the juxtaposition needed in the mind to understand a joke.
OP
OP
- Hosts take a “my way or the highway” approach at their own risk.
In some threads that I’ve started or commented on, it seems like there are always a few people whose answer to every hosting question is “Just kick them out!” or “If they don’t like it, tough!” (Will try to dig up links later.)
Well, sure it’s my game (or your game) and I (or you) can host how I (you) want...
We get to invite who we want, making any ruling we want, kick people out on a hair-trigger, or disinvite people without any explanation to them or the group.
And yeah, sometimes situations demand that a host just put their foot down and say “like it or lump it.”
But some of us host games in small communities, with limited player pools, often with family, work, or other social connections among regs. Some of us have played together for years, or even decades.
So when issues arise, it isn't always as simple to just fire people into the sun: “He’s off the island, I don’t want hear any questions, next man up!” In a small community and/or tight-knit group, replacing a reg isn’t always so easy and automatic. Maintaining, repairing or severing relationships can be complicated. Explaining what happened to the rest of the group is necessary when a familiar face disappears, or is put in a timeout, or whatever the host decides. They are going to have questions and deserve answers, at minimum so the host’s expectations are understood.
I’ve had one situation where I did simply ghost a pair of guys who we had all played with for a long time, not just in my game but in others in the area (including one they jointly hosted). This was after they had had multiple warnings about several different issues, with one of them having been banned for a couple of years before he managed to beg back into the game. By the time I finally axed them for good, it wasn’t worth even debating with them; we’d already been over everything a billion times before. They likewise did not really try to get an explanation or a reversal, because they knew full well why without admitting it... More importantly I did most certainly tell the remaining group that the problem pair would not be back, and why, so they would know it was not some arbitrary thing.
If a host wants to just make a harsh, sudden decision, that’s obviously their “right.” It’s also the host’s right to play in a Frankenstein costume, sing along loudly and off key with every song on the playlist, wear heavy cologne, or not wear pants. But don’t be so surprised when people wonder WTF is going on or stop coming to the game.
Again, I don’t know why any of that should even need be said, except that it seems to rub some posters with more dictatorial instincts the wrong way. It does get a little tiring when things are instantly reduced to “my way or the highway,” ignoring all practical and human considerations.
That is about the only thing I agree with. I play with a handful of hosts in southern Michigan. I am pretty sure they would mostly disagree with you.
RocAFella1
Royal Flush
You're @acezag's wife?
RocAFella1
Royal Flush
OP
OP
Good jokes are normally clever. Eriks’ joke was not one of those
OP
OP
I was waiting on tenterhooks for results to come on from a handful of hosts in Michigan think. Phew! At least that’s finally settled
You started a thread, but weren't looking for any replies? I'm confused. If I only disagreed with one or two points, I might have broken down why I disagree. Mostly, we couldn't be further apart on our opinions.
Lil Tuna
Straight Flush
Now, imagine a normal, sane person reading this thread
Rhodeman77
Straight Flush
This is my exact set up. I have an automatic shufflers in a side table next to me. I run the machine and pass the deck to the next dealer each hand. The current dealer still cleans up the current hand and hands that deck to me to put in the shuffler. Is this system any faster than a 2 deck shuffle behind set up, probably not. But my players enjoy not having to shuffle at all and it is very minimal extra work for me. And if I am handling a rebuy or something else the player next to me will handle loading the shuffler.
@Taghkanic you claim to want to fully explore these issues but your debate style is not healthy or constructive. I think this thread would be more productive and achieve the results you want if you change your approach.
For example, when someone offered constructive comments on bridge size vs poker based on real life experience you responded with a wall of AI text. When someone else wanted to explore 2 color vs 4 color your response was flippant (your one color would be better comment) and then you accused someone of discriminating against the visually impaired. Or you say “you don’t have to read my threads”
Whether you believe it or not your comments come across as dismissive at best and it makes people feel like they’re wasting their time. That is not the best way to fully explore issues. That’s why/when the jokes and memes start flying.
I have thoughts that I would have liked to introduce but am choosing not to because I don’t feel the discussion would be productive. And I don’t think that is what you wanted to achieve when you started these posts.
Check out this thread as an example — healthy discussion where people are willing to share thoughts and ideas. No memes or jokes that mock the OP.
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/lessons-from-a-first-year-host.139057/
Then compare with your two threads full of jokes and memes and ask yourself why.
For example, when someone offered constructive comments on bridge size vs poker based on real life experience you responded with a wall of AI text. When someone else wanted to explore 2 color vs 4 color your response was flippant (your one color would be better comment) and then you accused someone of discriminating against the visually impaired. Or you say “you don’t have to read my threads”
Whether you believe it or not your comments come across as dismissive at best and it makes people feel like they’re wasting their time. That is not the best way to fully explore issues. That’s why/when the jokes and memes start flying.
I have thoughts that I would have liked to introduce but am choosing not to because I don’t feel the discussion would be productive. And I don’t think that is what you wanted to achieve when you started these posts.
Check out this thread as an example — healthy discussion where people are willing to share thoughts and ideas. No memes or jokes that mock the OP.
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/lessons-from-a-first-year-host.139057/
Then compare with your two threads full of jokes and memes and ask yourself why.
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