I wanted to start a thread for hosts to discuss the various ways of disinviting players from a home game, and the complications around that unpleasant task... This topic has come up in a lot of places but I’m not aware of a thread devoted just to the specific diplomatic and other considerations around this often uncomfortable situation.
Here are three specific examples from recent memory, before considering any more general principles... I would just say up front that there are very different reasons for cutting people from an invite list (ranging from disruptive behavior to overt cheating/collusion to really just being “bad for the game” in some other way). And each may require very different approaches. So:
- Disruptors: We all have experienced players in casinos or home/private games who constantly make problems. This can come in many forms, from berating dealers or other players, to ignoring house rules or requests, even hygiene issues. This year I had to disinvite an older female player who I find pretty entertaining to be around, but who constantly antagonized regs in my game, as well as my dealer. About half the time she played in my game, there would be some major blow-up between her and at least one other person at the time. Over time, I started to realize that in addition to having a lot of anger issues, she sometimes staged these arguments as a way of hitting-and-running when she was up in chips: She’d get in a big fight with someone, and escalate until she could yell, “That’s it, cash me out” and storm out with her winnings. I just stopped inviting her at some point. Once in a while she still asks if I have a game that night (she knows the rough schedule) but I just always tell her it’s full up.
Fair 86, though it would obviously be better if she knows she's 86ed instead of being told over and over the game is full.
- Cheaters/Colluders: In 2024, I stopped inviting two guys who are best friends since childhood, who had been accused of either outright cheating (manipulating decks) or softer collusion (e.g. running squeeze plays) at various games, including mine. I had ejected the more offending of the pair several years before, but allowed his meek buddy to remain as he was not capable of running such schemes alone and seemed to be more under the thumb of his old friend... When I axed the one guy, I explicitly confronted him about what had been observed over several sessions by multiple players. He never really admitted it, but it was telling that he didn’t fight the accusations. After the death of a mutual poker friend seemed to have caused a “come to jesus” moment for him. But eventually he and his sidekick reverted to form and I just stopped inviting them. When finally they inquired about why they hadn’t been invited to the game for a while, I just said “You know perfectly well why,” and that was the end of it.
Fire them both out of a canon into the ocean.
Actually, get two separate canons, and make one of them watch you fire the other into the ocean. Then let him sweat for a while wondering when his turn is.
Wait until he falls asleep, and then fire his too.
- Bad for the Game: The other, less explosive situation I sometimes encounter is a player who does not make trouble, but who just doesn't add anything to the game. For example, there is one OMC guy who was brought initially by one of my regs. He buys in for the minimum, rarely if ever tops off or rebuys, and plays very few hands. He will stay all night milking that first buy-in, going up a little bit or down a little bit. Since he plays almost nothing but ultra-premium hands, he can’t have a good night unless he wakes up with AA and someone else has QQ/KK or AKs, since no one is calling him without a premium hand. Also, this guy eats about three times what anyone else in the game does. If I get two pizzas and a salad, he’ll have 5-6 slices and three bowls of salad. It’s crazy, because he is actually pretty skinny... A similar player is someone who used to play regularly in my tournaments, and now is giving cash a go. He, too, only buys in for the minimum, never tops off, and only very occasionally will rebuy when he busts. If he gets up by even a half-buyin, he concocts a reason to leave. So at most he is adding about 60-120 BB to the box on a bad night, and leaving with 30BB on a good one... A net win for the game, I guess, but in a game where others are bringing 400-600BBs to the game and getting their chips in play regularly, it really doesn't make sense to waste a seat on him a seat unless I’m desperate for one more player. Neither is a bad guy, they’re just bad for the game; so in both cases, I have not formally disinvited them; I just don’t tell them about the game unless I really really need a player. However, sometimes they inquire about whether I’m hosting on a given week, and I have to get creative to dodge their inquires. I have considered telling each of them whey they don’t get invited more often, but I don’t see either changing so there is little upside to having the conversation, IMHO.
I guess this is fair. Not so much uninvited but deprioritized.
I do take a little exception to calling them "bad for the game," though. They're more neutral than bad. They have no behavior problems or impropriety, just don't quite bring the level of action you'd prefer. They probably feel uncomfortable with the stakes, from the sound of it. (I'm guessing the guy who massively overeats is just poor and taking advantage of an opportunity to load up on calories, hence only having one buy-in and being skinny despite overeating at your game.)
You know what's worse for the game than scared-money nits? Skilled players who pull an hourly wage from the game. Of course you wouldn't uninvite them for that, especially because they tend to also be the kinds of players who get the game started and keep it going, i.e., they bring some value that may offset the fact that their presence is monetarily EV– for the overall field. That brings me to an idea about the nitty guys.
What if you could get them to contribute in some small way? Could be simple as asking them to carry something, sit in the middle to help manage pots and collect cards, or whatever would take a small load off your hands. Then they'd bring value, and you may appreciate their presence more. They're especially suited to this task because they're nits; they won't be in a hand most of the time.
Here’s a hybrid example of Disruptor/Bad for the Game:
Player has been attending about 1/3rd of my games this year. Thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room but is constantly running huge bluffs and losing his shirt. Problems:
(1) Player sweats a lot at work. Often shows up unshowered and stinky. Others tolerated it since he is a donator to the game, until one time he smelled like he spent the day at a slaughterhouse. Multiple people said “Jesus dude, can’t you shower before the game?” (He lives and works about 15 minutes away.) Finally he said he had a clean shirt in the car and changed, which made it a little less oppressive. Just an example of how he doesn’t give a damn about others.
I don't understand how people can go out to social events without bathing, especially after a sweaty day at work. Doesn't being clean feel better? Such a weird thing to have to deal with from an adult.
(2) My game is cash only, no rake, no book. You play with whatever chips you buy with greenbacks. I briefly tried taking Venmo and PayPal for a while but stopped about 6 months ago because I didn’t like having these big transactions on my accounts. But this player keeps showing up with either no cash or just one half buy-in. Then he busts and wants a full buy-in via Venmo. I say I can’t do that, so then he starts asking other players and the dealer to exchange cash for Venmo. This happens game after game. When I point out that he lives within a stone’s throw of three banks, he says he doesn't have a local account and he doesn't want to open a new one. Etc. Etc. A small thing, but persistent PITA, and a symptom of the guy not respecting our game and its rules.
Obnoxious. I agree with your cash-in/cash-out philosophy 100%, but moreover, player knows it's a cash-in/cash-out game and chooses to do the Venmo solicitation every time. (Of course, part of the problem here is that someone must always be obliging him too.)
Sadly, I expect this kind of thing to become the norm more and more. Lots of people—fools IMO—simply don't do cash anymore. They not only don't have it on hand but seem to AVOID having it even when they should, and rely on people who do carry cash to bridge the gap, in poker and elsewhere.
I've seen people arrange in advance for someone else to bring a large quantity of cash to cover multiple people, and they presumably settle that prior to the game. That's the right approach if getting it yourself is inconvenient.
(3) Final straw... I mentioned the huge bluffs. I was in another game with him (not mine), big three-way hand goes to the river. I have a set, but the river brings in a fourth club. So I’m losing to a million combos, threeway. Our friend runs his usual big bluff, and normally I might still bluffcatch him despite the horrible runout, since I’ve caught him speeding a ton before. But there is a good player still to act to my left, so I sigh-fold my set. The smart player to my left tanks and tanks and tanks, and finally calls with top pair/top kicker. The Stinky Distruptor instamucks his hand to not show the bluff. So I had the best hand, but couldn’t call due to being monkey in the middle on an ugly board.
I turn to the bluffer and needle him a bit with “This time your bluff cost us both money.” He explodes, losing his shit and going on a long and vicious tirade, attacking me personally, the people in this game and also my game, etc. Long story short, he revealed even more than I already suspected how little he respected my game, so I have not invited him back since. I told the other game’s host (who is also the dealer in my game) that this guy is not being invited back to my game unless/until he apologizes for the rant and also agrees to stop all the antisocial/passive-aggressive stuff like showing up reeking and without cash. He also sent a nasty text to the other host/dealer after storming out... They have talked about how unacceptable his behavior is, and the other host has invited him back, but I’ve made it clear that he’s not coming back to my game no matter how much of an apology and promise to fly straight he makes. Once someone proves that they don’t respect the host and the game there’s no going back, IMHO. If forgiven, the problem will just re-emerge in some new form.
I lost the narrative while reading your second point and forgot this is all about the same guy. Holy shit.
From the stories here, you're right not to expect this guy to act any better. Also, he seems to have become a real thorn in your side, personally. Like everything about him just fucking grates on you, and dealing with him again and again is only making it worse. This may seem too subjective to justify booting him, but (a) as host, your subjective opinion does matter, (b) as host, your ability to keep cool and run the game is important, and (c) the objective case you've laid out here is solid anyway, especially after the outburst.
