Cash Game How I Bank at a Home Game in an Increasingly Cashless Society (4 Viewers)

[ArielVer18]

It's automated, so nobody has to figure out who owes who how much and it's instant. If you have everyone pay the bank then the bank pays everyone out, that also works, but it could run afoul of taxable transaction limits (only Paypal currently) or it could look like gambling (prohibited by PayPal, Venmo, and possibly others).

My spreadsheet is prefilled with formulas to automate everything. I'm not creating the spreadsheet from memory lol

All your cash players stay until the very end of the game?

I know this is a long thread, but this is covered in my OP titled How to Handle Players Leaving Early

 

[Taghkanic]

Though I expect in 5-10 years I may have to cave to the younguns' preference for virtual payment... At the end of the day, I vastly prefer just being a hardass for cash.

It makes everything so much simpler.

The box is the box. What goes in goes out, and if there is a discrepancy it's on me. There is no suspense about whether anyone was slow to pay or didn't cough up. At the end of the night the box is back to zero, appropriate for a zero-sum game.

Anyway people should always have some cash, even if they *don't* play poker. These guys who don't keep multiple cash buyins on hand at any given time are practically begging the internet to crash.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Though I expect in 5-10 years I may have to cave to the younguns' preference for virtual payment... At the end of the day, I vastly prefer just being a hardass for cash.

It makes everything so much simpler.

The box is the box. What goes in goes out, and if there is a discrepancy it's on me. There is no suspense about whether anyone was slow to pay or didn't cough up. At the end of the night the box is back to zero, appropriate for a zero-sum game.

Anyway people should always have some cash, even if they *don't* play poker. These guys who don't keep multiple cash buyins on hand at any given time are practically begging the internet to crash.

Go to Sweden. I felt like an idiot having cash that wasn't exactly "useful". It is much more likely that the US is drifting in that direction that the other way around.

 

[Tight_Lay_DOWN]

If your goal is to run a truly cashless game, meaning nothing physical representing money changes hands, then your setup using electronic transfers and a spreadsheet or program definitely gets the job done. It sounds like you’ve already found a solid solution!

Some of the “why would you do that?” comments you’re getting are pretty common whenever someone mentions going fully digital. But there are plenty of good reasons for it, security, simplicity, and accountability.

Of course, like everything in poker, there are pros and cons. A cashless system introduces a few risks, mainly tracking, timing, and trust. If someone sends payment late, or “forgets” a transfer, who holds that liability? The host? The game runner? It’s not much different from extending credit, and as most of us have learned, once a game starts running on IOUs and spreadsheets, it’s only a matter of time before the “credit department” ends up heads-up with the collections department.

One alternative I’ve seen work well is having players bring casino or cardroom chips from a nearby property they already frequent. That keeps the game cashless in spirit but still tactile and immediate, plus, nothing feels better than stacking chips, but this might not be an options at your location or player pool.

At the end of the day, every table’s different. You and your players know your group’s trust level, comfort with tech, and willingness to adapt. Some games love the convenience of Venmo and spreadsheets; others prefer the classic “rack it and stack it” approach. Neither is right or wrong — just whatever keeps the game smooth, friendly, and fun.

If the players are happy, and nobody’s losing sleep, then you’ve done it right.

Good luck—may your transfers clear fast, your spreadsheets balance, and your pots always stay bigger than your disputes!

 

[Poker Zombie]

If your goal is to run a truly cashless game, meaning nothing physical representing money changes hands, then your setup using electronic transfers and a spreadsheet or program definitely gets the job done. It sounds like you’ve already found a solid solution!

Some of the “why would you do that?” comments you’re getting are pretty common whenever someone mentions going fully digital. But there are plenty of good reasons for it, security, simplicity, and accountability.

Of course, like everything in poker, there are pros and cons. A cashless system introduces a few risks, mainly tracking, timing, and trust. If someone sends payment late, or “forgets” a transfer, who holds that liability? The host? The game runner? It’s not much different from extending credit, and as most of us have learned, once a game starts running on IOUs and spreadsheets, it’s only a matter of time before the “credit department” ends up heads-up with the collections department.

One alternative I’ve seen work well is having players bring casino or cardroom chips from a nearby property they already frequent. That keeps the game cashless in spirit but still tactile and immediate, plus, nothing feels better than stacking chips, but this might not be an options at your location or player pool.

At the end of the day, every table’s different. You and your players know your group’s trust level, comfort with tech, and willingness to adapt. Some games love the convenience of Venmo and spreadsheets; others prefer the classic “rack it and stack it” approach. Neither is right or wrong — just whatever keeps the game smooth, friendly, and fun.

If the players are happy, and nobody’s losing sleep, then you’ve done it right.

Good luck—may your transfers clear fast, your spreadsheets balance, and your pots always stay bigger than your disputes!

I strongly prefer cash over the cashless system, so take the following as a different perspective that may change your mind if you are open to the idea of change.

The "what if they don't pay" argument isn't very realistic. Sure, it could happen, but in today's increasingly cashless system that same "what if" exists for every Venmo transaction. Order pizzas for a group and everyone pays you back with Venmo - but what if... Running to the store, and someone says "can you pick me up a Coke" you agree and they pay you back via Venmo, but what if... This site runs heavily on chip sales that are paid for with a certain amount of trust that you won't get shipped a box of paper. There are always "what ifs".

In the end, if you trust your group is a bunch of friends/family, the "what if" argument is largely invalid. It is probably only slightly more plausible than being handed a counterfeit bill in a cash game, and probably as likely as getting robbed - which are all so low on the concern level that few precautions are taken at most home games.

Again, I prefer cash. However, I can see that while cashless has a few drawbacks (players that leave early may not pay up until the next day, the government can track it), it clearly has strong points in it's favor (theft proof, no need to run to the ATM).

 

[ekricket]

The solution is to have an electronic table with no cards, no chips, and no actual money. Table is configured so it has access to players bank accounts and they withdraw as needed. Winnings are automatically added to their bank accounts, and losing is withdrawn along the way.
No dealer, no mess.
Easy peasy.

 

[Booshme]

My spreadsheet is prefilled with formulas to automate everything. I'm not creating the spreadsheet from memory lol



I know this is a long thread, but this is covered in my OP titled How to Handle Players Leaving Early

Link? I searched and could not find it, I searched “title only” too and no luck

 

[Poker Zombie]

The solution is to have an electronic table with no cards, no chips, and no actual money. Table is configured so it has access to players bank accounts and they withdraw as needed. Winnings are automatically added to their bank accounts, and losing is withdrawn along the way.
No dealer, no mess.
Easy peasy.

I remember when they started rolling those out in Vegas.

Now they're all gone.

Some things cannot be replaced electronically.

 

[BarrieJ3]

If I ever played anywhere regularly, I’d ask host if I could buy in with a bankroll.

If I attended a game from weekly to monthly (maybe quarterly), and I knew the host, I’d simply ask to drop off cash (not at a game) or PayPal one time, something like 20-60 buyins.

They may love that, they may hate it (cause then they’re managing the buy ins/end of night cash outs for me).

I just like not having to deal with bringing in cash and carrying it out.

 

[Poker Zombie]

If I ever played anywhere regularly, I’d ask host if I could buy in with a bankroll.

If I attended a game from weekly to monthly (maybe quarterly), and I knew the host, I’d simply ask to drop off cash (not at a game) or PayPal one time, something like 20-60 buyins.

They may love that, they may hate it (cause then they’re managing the buy ins/end of night cash outs for me).

I just like not having to deal with bringing in cash and carrying it out.

My dad used to shoot pool. Everyone had a jar with their buy-ins and profits. If your jar ever got low, you would just top it off. The jars were labeled and sat on a shelf behind the bar.

Not a bad idea for games with a dedicated poker room. Less useful if the host doesn't want to dedicate a little shelf-space for every player.

 

[BarrieJ3]

As a player, host, etc., I hate the ever present chance of life altering events - we’ve seen/heard of the potential legal issues or theft issues that have happened.

We take a chance every time we drive, get out of bed in the morning, etc. Playing home games with cash on the table/in the bank presents it own bevy of potential issues, however unlikely.

My game is on a dead end, 10 minutes from closest highway, on unlit dark roads with plenty of animal crossings. Coming in on foot would mean walking through acres of woods of a neighbors property (who regularly shoots on said prop). Add in security cameras covering every said of the house that auto highlight and record all persons and vehicles entering/leaving, and an incredible local police response time - I feel somewhat secure.

While it may be overkill, regardless of cash or credit/etransfers, I would highly suggest very visible security cameras for any host. (Plus you can like score a home insurance discount to recoup some of the cost)

 

[valleychips]

I appreciate this thread. You all have me pondering my own games and offering an e-payment option. A poker specific account that always starts at zero. Payments would be treated like cash. Players would pay on site with me there, and upon receipt seconds later, they'd get chips. No credits, no balances. Everything zeroed out at night's end. Easier for some, and certainly more secure (which is the primary concern for me). I def have some folks who prefer cash. That is my only hangup. If cash players win big, would they be open to being paid electronically (only if necessary) -- that's the last piece. I'll start asking now. Thanks all.

 

[MC_CPA]

Table is configured so it has access to players bank accounts and they withdraw as needed.

When your entire bankroll is on the table literally

 

[LotsOfChips]

That is my only hangup.

Your hangup should be worrying about the bank freezing your account for suspicious activity, or the tax man knocking on your door about all that unexplained income that wasn't reported on your tax return.

You may not think it is an issue, and it isn't, until it is.

 

[valleychips]

Your hangup should be worrying about the bank freezing your account for suspicious activity, or the tax man knocking on your door about all that unexplained income that wasn't reported on your tax return.

You may not think it is an issue, and it isn't, until it is.

Many of these apps don't require being linked to a bank account (I have verified this). You receive payments from other app users and send money to other app users. No bank.

As for your other concern re: the IRS... genuinely asking, are you speaking from experience? Has anything happened to someone you know? I personally find it tough to believe that the (criminally understaffed -- I know others will disagree but that's not the point of this thread ) IRS has the bandwidth to somehow investigate a Joe Schmo's PayPal/Venmo/Cash App/whatever, especially if the app isn't linked to a bank.

Thanks for further clarification.

 

[Tarsus4]

Many of these apps don't require being linked to a bank account (I have verified this). You receive payments from other app users and send money to other app users. No bank.

As for your other concern re: the IRS... genuinely asking, are you speaking from experience? Has anything happened to someone you know? I personally find it tough to believe that the (criminally understaffed -- I know others will disagree but that's not the point of this thread ) IRS has the bandwidth to somehow investigate a Joe Schmo's PayPal/Venmo/Cash App/whatever, especially if the app isn't linked to a bank.

Thanks for further clarification.

The issue is if a payment platform issues you a 1099-K. A copy goes to the IRS and they will (automatically) assume it's income unless you have corresponding deductions to declare. It's not a matter of going after you, it's a matter of getting caught up in the systems designed to handle the information they already have.

That said it seems from the little research I've done that Zelle and Paypal/Venmo F+F should be exempt from this kind of reporting. It's targeted at goods-and-services, gig stuff.

 

[Tarsus4]

Come to think of it, for Paypal/Venmo I would be much more worried about THEM finding it suspicious than the IRS. Paypal seems to play with no rules and will just freeze/confiscate money if they feel like it.

 

[ArielVer18]

Link? I searched and could not find it, I searched “title only” too and no luck

First post of this thread. Players who leave early obviously will not need to be around for the end-of-game settlement. They collect their net winnings (or pay up their losses) before they walk out the door. Obviously, a cash-only player can just walk out. I created this thread a few years ago to share with PCF how I bridged the gap between cash-only and cashless players.

 

[LotsOfChips]

for Paypal/Venmo I would be much more worried about THEM finding it suspicious than the IRS.

This! At least one game host that I am familiar with has reported that his e-transfer account has been frozen because some players included the word "poker" in the description field of their transfer.

 

[Mr Winberg]

some players included the word "poker" in the description field

Hate when that happens...

Here are a few examples of venmo comments I've received.

"Paying you, because your mother doesn't have venmo. Please forward to her."

"0.5 grams of heroin."

"Buy-in for an illegal underground poker game"

Yep, I have great friends...

 

[merkong]

Why do I want to slap this thread in the face?

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

The solution is to have an electronic table with no cards, no chips, and no actual money. Table is configured so it has access to players bank accounts and they withdraw as needed. Winnings are automatically added to their bank accounts, and losing is withdrawn along the way.
No dealer, no mess.
Easy peasy.

We already have this. (mostly) It's called Poker Mavens. You don't even have to leave your house, or even wear clothes, if you don't want to.

 

[valleychips]

Has anyone done a mix of cashless for some folks and cash for others? I'm thinking of offering that for my game. But that would require anyone who wins big to be willing to accept winnings in a mix of cash/e-payments. If I have to bring cash to cover the e-payments, then it defeats the purpose.

But I'm wondering how it has worked for anyone doing the mix and if your players gripe because they want all one or the other, or if it has been okay. Thanks!

 

[Tarsus4]

Has anyone done a mix of cashless for some folks and cash for others? I'm thinking of offering that for my game. But that would require anyone who wins big to be willing to accept winnings in a mix of cash/e-payments. If I have to bring cash to cover the e-payments, then it defeats the purpose.

But I'm wondering how it has worked for anyone doing the mix and if your players gripe because they want all one or the other, or if it has been okay. Thanks!

I would pick one to be the game's "main" currency and make sure you can cover all chips on the table in that medium. Then you could accept or pay in another medium as a convenience, but be able to say "no" if needed (i.e. if your game is cashless and you don't have enough cash to cover a big win, or if your game is cash and don't have enough extra cash to cover a digital buy-in). I do a cash game but allow digital rebuys.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

Has anyone done a mix of cashless for some folks and cash for others? I'm thinking of offering that for my game. But that would require anyone who wins big to be willing to accept winnings in a mix of cash/e-payments. If I have to bring cash to cover the e-payments, then it defeats the purpose.

But I'm wondering how it has worked for anyone doing the mix and if your players gripe because they want all one or the other, or if it has been okay. Thanks!

I feel like if you allow cash buy-ins, then you need to be prepared to pay cash winners in all cash.

 

[mdt11]

I've been asked about this a few times so wanted to put a short writeup here. But here is the best solution I've found for cashless banking that minimizes confusion, as well as transactions across a single night. I took this system from another host whose place I played at, who took it from another host, etc...

One note: This involves credit, and only works with players you know and trust. I would not use this for a raked game or with unknown players. I know that is a deal-breaker for some, and that is fine.

Each player starts with some $ number of chips, which are in play, and $ of lammers, which are not. At my game, this is $300 chips and $3,000 in lammers (4 x $500 and 1 x $1,000). So everyone is "in" for $3,300, even though only $300 is on the table and able to be won/lost to start.

To keep things simple, the buyin/cap is the same for everyone, and after 90 mins of pay the cap goes up to $500 or half the big stack.

When players want to rebuy or top up, they trade in lammers for chips. If a player wants to top up only $100 more, they'll give me a $500 lammer, and I'll give them four greens and four blacks for simplicity. They can put the greens on the table and put the blacks in their cupholder or pocket or somewhere off the felt.

At the end of the night, players trade in their chips + lammers, and whatever difference that is from $3,300 is their $net for the night. This eliminates a number of problems, including
- Multiple digital transactions in and out over the course of the night for a player
- Disagreements over who was in for what. "I have you down as in for $900" "No, I was only in for $600" "Oops I missed a buyin" etc...

All of this is automated in a spreadsheet.

BONUS #1: Once the game breaks, I tally up everyone's $net, and, rather than paying out players myself, I match up winners/losers to pay each other directly. This cuts down on everyone's payments. I also resolve any cash payments made between players for the final payouts. In this case the biggest loser paid the biggest winner $700 cash and the rest was settled digitally:

BONUS #2: You can also support shared expenses such as food or a dealer. In this sheet you have the option to take shared expenses out as a % from the net winnings. I find this most palatable so those who are down on the night don't find themselves with extra expenses and the winners generally mind less. (Of course you should make sure all players fully understand and agree to how all of this will be split before they commit to attending the game.)

Here's an example of how the sheet above turns out if you had a dealer for the night who was paid $300 and $50 worth of food. You could also add the dealer in as a 10th "player" to account for any tips they may have received as well.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

How do you handle people who leave before the end of the night? Do they venmo (or whatever app) you?

 

[Coyote]

Last bastion of cash: Poker.
Stand your ground!

 

[mdt11]

How do you handle people who leave before the end of the night? Do they venmo (or whatever app) you?

After everybody has left I match the payers/payees and send out the list to everyone. This is usually pretty late so people settle by the following morning.

Again, this is only for games with friends/people I trust so it’s never been an issue.

 

[grantcm05]

I make my cashless players receive payouts with cashless methods, and vice versa for cash players. What I try to avoid is dipping into my cash bank reserve when Johnny buys in for $100 with Venmo but leaves with $175 in cash.