CPC Move Updates (2 Viewers)

[maxim_666666]

I understand that all of this is unpleasant, but it seems to me that people are more concerned about the quality of the chips than the timelines. Even CPC had defective chips, which, of course, were covered by spare ones. In general, what I mean is that defects happen everywhere. Mike seems like a reasonable person and surely understands this, as well as the high quality standards everyone is used to.

 

[maxim_666666]

When I ordered 1000+ elephant and crown’s in December, and once since then, I was estimated/quoted an August/September production. You say that this is a 2 to 4 weeks extension. Yet if you’re producing/then moving in October and I’m not being made in the old facility, where does that put me? The math, in my opinion, is exceedingly off.

I am in business, and I understand there’s a lot behind the curtain. But I think you’ll get a better buy in with a more transparent answer. For example, the Maine factory can produce X number of chips per month. We had XXX amount of chips ordered before the deadline. We expect the production in the new plant to take one to two months to set up and get running. Followed by X amount of chips carried over from Maine, put our estimates in a realistic timeframe of Y. Now, maybe you don’t want to disclose that because you feel that would be more obvious that we might be waiting months, if not a year plus (beyond original estimate). At which point you might have a bank run.

Mud

My logic tells me that other forms can be produced in parallel at the new location while David is stamping CSQ day and night...
Perhaps this is finally the moment when CPC can produce several forms at once and not wait until the next one comes.

 

[Eriks]

I understand that all of this is unpleasant, but it seems to me that people are more concerned about the quality of the chips than the timelines. Even CPC had defective chips, which, of course, were covered by spare ones. In general, what I mean is that defects happen everywhere. Mike seems like a reasonable person and surely understands this, as well as the high quality standards everyone is used to.

I didn’t ask out of concern for quality, just interested in trying to ballpark when I might get to play with them

 

[Josh Kifer]

Red PTSD coming out...... Oh dear.

 

[TheBigTater]

Red PTSD coming out...... Oh dear.

Yeah I'm afraid some of the members didn't get to experience the Vegas move trauma. Of course there isn't a evil super villain involved this time but everything went ok........

Can't help being a little apprehensive......

 

[maxim_666666]

I didn’t ask out of concern for quality, just interested in trying to ballpark when I might get to play with them

I completely understand you. I waited eight months for my last order — and that was just for the HHR. And during that time, there were no relocations or major disruptions. I also wrote a message to David, asking how much longer I’d have to wait. Sometimes it drags on for so long that you start to wonder... will I even receive them at all?

But let’s also look at another important point. Everyone is concerned about the lead times, but no one brings up the fact that, for example, PayPal’s buyer protection lasts only 180 days. People spend thousands of dollars and all this is based only on the owner's word of honor and reputation.

My wife once asked me, “Hey, where are those chips you bought in the winter? What’s going on — where’s the money or the chips?” It wasn’t easy explaining to her that in today’s world of commerce, there are such “specific” types of transactions.

I believe this situation isn’t making anyone happy — neither the customers nor the factory owners. And if they could fix it, they would have done it already.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Yeah I'm afraid some of the members didn't get to experience the Vegas move trauma. Of course there isn't a evil super villain involved this time but everything went ok........

Can't help being a little apprehensive......

Yeah. The previous generation got bit by this once before. So some pushback and worry is natural.

 

[CPC_Mike]

Please keep in mind that I *stopped* taking orders on April 27th. Had I continued to take orders this problem would get exponentially worse every month. All I can do now is move on, try to clean up the mess, and set up the business to be successful for the next 20 years. Getting from here to there is not going to be easy and is going to be very expensive for me. I knew when bought the company that this period of time would be the most difficult. I'm very confident of how things will go once I have the company here. You guys have no reason to have any confidence at all and will just have to wait and see. And fret. Lots of fretting. Actions speak more than words.

 

[ChipMonster]

I’m in the same boat as many others here. I placed a sizable order under the legacy production promise, and it’s obviously disappointing to hear that won’t be possible anymore.

That said, I’m 100 percent more concerned about quality than I am about timeline, within reason. I’m not in a rush. I just want the chips to live up to the standards CPC has been known for, and to match the quality I received in my previous set. The rest I can live with, as long as the result is right.

I’m assuming Mike is trying to build a viable business, and that he fully understands this transition is a litmus test for the company’s future. Given that he has invested a meaningful amount into taking it over, I have to believe he is incentivized to get it absolutely right. Anything less would be a death wish for the brand.

I do appreciate the effort at transparency, even if some questions remain. The fact that there is now a refund path for those who feel strongly is a step in the right direction. Now it just comes down to execution.

 

[Cratty]

Thanks for the update, Mike.

 

[CPC_Mike]

One last point, I know all of you are concerned with your orders (read: $$/emotional investment). If you're unhappy and don't feel we're meeting the expectations of your order let me know and we'll get you a refund. I'm not trying to screw anyone here. I'm trying to remake the company and it's going to be messy until we're done.
Keep in mind that if things go sideways, I have *far* more skin in the game than all of you combined.
And I'm sure my tolerance to be able to afford it is on par with all of you. I intend for the company to succeed.

 

[divinerites]

Guys, this move is a « project ». And a big one.

I managed projects in all my professional working time. And the only 100% truth is that plan NEVER gets as planned.
So you have to adapt/choose/react/change as things are going. Adapt is the key to succeed.
Some decisions/choices are hard but better hard than dead.

It seems that the new owner get all the 3 needed key items to success (sponsor, decision, money).
So may be give him ability to achieve this move project.
There will be more changes I guess.

I never failed a project big or small because I had too make big/heartbreaking changes. NEVER.
I had failed project because lack of sponsors or decision ability. And it was dead from the beginning and/or I declined to assume it. (and they all failed as expected whoever was managing the project).

 

[Mudfever]

My 2-4 week extension is from where peoples orders are in the queue right now, not from estimates from last December.

@CPC_Mike Thank you for clarifying. I understand that this is a fluid project and grace is due. This was just the first hearing that the terms had changed.

I guess 2 additional questions.

1. Do you have a projected completion of all current orders received prior to the cut off? (I know I will probably be towards the end as I am E&C and only a few orders were placed on that mold.)

2. Will all orders received prior to the cut be completed before any new orders are completed?

Thanks,

Mud

 

[chipinla]

Of course there isn't a evil super villain involved this time

 

[Carnth]

My "Maine" concern is getting a quality CPC product. I would hate after all the waiting, and the move that I would receive rushed/low quality chips.
I'm pretty sure that this won't be the case as Mike seems to hold quality as one of CPC's pillars.

But, it is in the back of my mind that employees, may be "just trying to get things done." Especially after months of working on so many extra orders, and then moving across the country and then working on even more orders.

I'm sure that I, and everyone else who has an order has nothing to worry about regarding quality. But, the slightest bit of worry is still there in the back of my mind.

 

[JeepologyOffroad]

My "Maine" concern is getting a quality CPC product. I would hate after all the waiting, and the move that I would receive rushed/low quality chips.
I'm pretty sure that this won't be the case as Mike seems to hold quality as one of CPC's pillars.

But, it is in the back of my mind that employees, may be "just trying to get things done." Especially after months of working on so many extra orders, and then moving across the country and then working on even more orders.

I'm sure that I, and everyone else who has an order has nothing to worry about regarding quality. But, the slightest bit of worry is still there in the back of my mind.

+1

Granted it seems my order made the Maine cut off, but I still worry about the quality for future sets. This difficult transition is the perfect opportunity to earn trust for future orders.. or break it.

 

[NeoViny23]

The infrastructure (electrical, hydraulic, plumbing) is crumbling with leaks everywhere. Key pieces of machinery will not pass mandatory inspections

I pray every day that I don’t get the 2am phone call that such and such has broken and we’re down for weeks. There’s little to no redundancy.

All I can do now is move on, try to clean up the mess, and set up the business to be successful for the next 20 years.

To be honest, I wasn't aware that the company/machinery is in such bad condition. But this might explain why my scroll order came with flaws (edgespot issues) that have been accepted to get replaced with new chips. So based on that, I have high hopes that my replacements will be better than my original order since they will be produced in Woodinville, at least the spots will probably will be better. But I am also a bit nervous that new Equipment could lead to a different feeling.

I don't know if there will be plans to take care of that topic as well: will there be a pre cleaning of new chips before shipping in the future? I'm not talking about dust free edges and oiling but the thin lines of some molds. On my last scroll order I had to deep clean every scroll mold itself with a toothbrush to get rid of all the dust within the mold. If I wouldn't have done it I would have ruined my felt completely with all the chip dust. And man, it was a brutal torture to clean 850 chips that way. Maybe a high pressure air duster would do the job!?

 

[doublebooyah85]

Without a doubt, take the refund and re-order later IMHO if you have any stress. Very fair and nice of the owner to offer that. Otherwise keep the order in to help with the cash flow of the business and wish him the best.

 

[maxim_666666]

To be honest, I wasn't aware that the company/machinery is in such bad condition. But this might explain why my scroll order came with flaws (edgespot issues) that have been accepted to get replaced with new chips. So based on that, I have high hopes that my replacements will be better than my original order since they will be produced in Woodinville, at least the spots will probably will be better. But I am also a bit nervous that new Equipment could lead to a different feeling.

I don't know if there will be plans to take care of that topic as well: will there be a pre cleaning of new chips before shipping in the future? I'm not talking about dust free edges and oiling but the thin lines of some molds. On my last scroll order I had to deep clean every scroll mold itself with a toothbrush to get rid of all the dust within the mold. If I wouldn't have done it I would have ruined my felt completely with all the chip dust. And man, it was a brutal torture to clean 850 chips that way. Maybe a high pressure air duster would do the job!?

Next time write to me and I will give you an ultrasonic cleaner. Distilled water without!!! any chemicals did a miracle in 5-10 seconds per barrel. I also tried to clean them with a brush at first, but at some point I realized that I was breathing this dust. (Never do this with Paulson, it's a direct road to an oncologist!)
It was some kind of hell within hell.

 

[chipinla]

Next time write to me and I will give you an ultrasonic cleaner. Distilled water without!!! any chemicals did a miracle in 5-10 seconds per barrel. I also tried to clean them with a brush at first, but at some point I realized that I was breathing this dust. (Never do this with Paulson, it's a direct road to an oncologist!)
It was some kind of hell within hell.
View attachment 1545928View attachment 1545929View attachment 1545930

Have you done this with CPC chips that have inlays? I would personally never recommend putting labeled CPC chips into an ultrasonic cleaner since the inlays come off way too easy.

 

[NeoViny23]

Next time write to me and I will give you an ultrasonic cleaner. Distilled water without!!! any chemicals did a miracle in 5-10 seconds per barrel. I also tried to clean them with a brush at first, but at some point I realized that I was breathing this dust. (Never do this with Paulson, it's a direct road to an oncologist!)
It was some kind of hell within hell.
View attachment 1545928View attachment 1545929View attachment 1545930

Thx for the offer I also would prefer cleaning them by hand, but it would be a nice benefit of such a pre cleaning of the "very dusty molds" will be one of the additional services in the future of CPC...

And I'd like to repeat: I really love chalky new chips where I have to wipe off "some dust" from edges. But as I said: scroll mold needed a loooot of work before I could put them on the felt....

 

[Gus]

@CPC_Mike it's great to see this transparency from you. As one of the folks who toured the Maine factory during the sale process I believe one of the biggest desires from the community is more info about the factory, the ancient and newer equipment used, and a high level summary of all the steps involved in making each chip.

The previous owners were unwilling to reveal this, which is a perfectly understandable decision, and may have been required in order to retain the Nevada Gaming license (which may have stipulated secrecy around manufacturing methods in order to prevent counterfeiting).

If you were to do a 5-minute walk-thru video of the factory showing "hey here's this step, OK let's take a look at this thing..." it would blow people's minds here to see how much effort goes into making this product. I remember counting up how many times human hands touch each chip and just thinking "wow, the price makes so much sense now... and sheesh, perhaps it should be double!"

Ultimate-level unlock would be a 30-minute video narrated by Jamie going through all the steps (without revealing e.g. chip formulas or other secrets)... It would be a real time-capsule of "this is how ASM and CPC created all these chips over the past 5 decades..."

I don't care about fancy shoes being made in China vs Italy until I see a video of an old master artisan and his toolbox meticulously working through the steps that make a quality product in his workshop... then I think hey if I can afford it I'd love to wear the real thing!

Best of luck with everything, it's a massive undertaking and I hope the inevitable setbacks don't discourage you!

 

[ekricket]

@CPC_Mike it's great to see this transparency from you. As one of the folks who toured the Maine factory during the sale process I believe one of the biggest desires from the community is more info about the factory, the ancient and newer equipment used, and a high level summary of all the steps involved in making each chip.

The previous owners were unwilling to reveal this, which is a perfectly understandable decision, and may have been required in order to retain the Nevada Gaming license (which may have stipulated secrecy around manufacturing methods in order to prevent counterfeiting).

If you were to do a 5-minute walk-thru video of the factory showing "hey here's this step, OK let's take a look at this thing..." it would blow people's minds here to see how much effort goes into making this product. I remember counting up how many times human hands touch each chip and just thinking "wow, the price makes so much sense now... and sheesh, perhaps it should be double!"

Ultimate-level unlock would be a 30-minute video narrated by Jamie going through all the steps (without revealing e.g. chip formulas or other secrets)... It would be a real time-capsule of "this is how ASM and CPC created all these chips over the past 5 decades..."

I don't care about fancy shoes being made in China vs Italy until I see a video of an old master artisan and his toolbox meticulously working through the steps that make a quality product in his workshop... then I think hey if I can afford it I'd love to wear the real thing!

Best of luck with everything, it's a massive undertaking and I hope the inevitable setbacks don't discourage you!

You should never ask how a magic trick is done. Once you know they’re no surprise anymore.

 

[Gus]

You should never ask how a magic trick is done. Once you know they’re no surprise anymore.

It’s not magic, it’s manufacturing

I don’t want to by mystified by the apparent quality of a poker chip or a shoe or a house. I want to see inside the walls and verify the methods and understand what exactly the thing is

maybe that’s just me though! And in that case all’s good because I did see behind the curtain and get the full lesson, and still decided to order a set of CPCs

 

[Tonysquander]

I am just going to trust the process as well as the former and current owner and their crews to kick ass on all orders. The concerns which have been expressed are totally legitimate but, if I put on my worry hat, then I could worry about Maine rushing orders just to meet the close out date and that impacting quality, etc.

If there do end up being any issues, I have seen nothing from either David or Mike which indicates they would not address and rectify same to the satisfaction of the customer. I am hoping that everyone eventually gets the high-quality product CPC has been known to produce in the past and will hopefully be producing in the future.

Until I see any reports to the contrary, I am just not going to waste energy worrying about the what ifs and the like.

 

[TheOffalo]

You should never ask how a magic trick is done. Once you know they’re no surprise anymore.

I dunno, when Penn and Teller do the balls-and-cup with transparent cups so you can see how the trick is done, it’s still pretty magical the skill it takes!

 

[Cratty]

It’s not magic, it’s manufacturing

I don’t want to by mystified by the apparent quality of a poker chip or a shoe or a house. I want to see inside the walls and verify the methods and understand what exactly the thing is

maybe that’s just me though! And in that case all’s good because I did see behind the curtain and get the full lesson, and still decided to order a set of CPCs

I'll echo this take. When I talk to folks about why I spend what I do on chips, I like to talk about the differences in manufacturing and history/etc behind it.

It's also videos/behind the scenes in factories of various luxury watch makers that also made me appreciate their watches more and enough to purchase.

 

[Gus]

As a small business nerd/enthusiast I love seeing not only how the manufacturing works (whether a poker chip factory, a brewery, etc) but even more importantly what the financials are behind each step

Mike mentions there’s equipment that’s not being used because it’s broken, which helps explain why there’s such a limitation on number of molds in production

How much will it cost to repair these machines? $1k or $30k? What would a new one cost? $50k+? Or are these machines no longer made, so you’d actually have to contract with a machine shop to create one from scratch based on the specifications of the current operational ones?

Well what are the margins on the product being sold? A beer at a taproom might be $0.10 of ingredients, $0.30 of labor, $0.05 of energy, but it’s sold for $8! Ok well how about that $5k/mo lease, the debt on $1m of brewing equipment, the cost of keeping the place sanitary and benefits for the employees…

Mostly this stuff is too complex for people to want to know, because some people will be furious that ten cents of barley is costing them $8 to drink without considering the bigger picture

What’s the margin on tiger palace chips? Ok that’d be nice to know, but how much money did the buyer put up front, and what was the risk of the whole thing blowing up, and on and on…

We have markets to simplify all this. Here’s the product and here’s the price and terms. You the customer can choose to buy or not, and not have to think about the million things that make it possible. You can have Tiger Palace chips at $X/chip, and that’s the end of that!

 

[Rieguy]

I just assumed David didn't want to show their biggest secret in the factory via a walk-thru, although an insider supposedly captured this small clip of them transferring a ball of DG Peacock clay to the molding section:

Spoiler: Confidential

On a serious note, I understand why we don't have much info, but even the single picture from inside the factory that Mike shared recently was really cool to see. As someone who owns a couple CPC sets, when I explain to non-chippers how much more involved and quality the chips are versus what the majority of "authentic clayTM" is, it would be awesome to be able to point to a bit more outside of my personal version/explanation.

 

[Gus]

I just assumed David didn't want to show their biggest secret in the factory via a walk-thru, although an insider supposedly captured this small clip of them transferring a ball of DG Peacock clay to the molding section:

Spoiler: Confidential

View attachment 1545998

Ha

Ingredient/chip composition recipe is absolutely a valid secret (there’s Rhino Horn in there!???)

“We operate $100k hydraulic presses at 2000 degrees Fahrenheit that could crush solid granite” isn’t so much a vulnerable secret because in order to steal it or make use of it you’d have to compete by doing that same thing… which is a ridiculously high barrier to entry

The balance I’m most interested in is “these manufacturing methods can be revealed because they increase the perceived value of the product” to some customers who will care about it

Seeing how TINAs are made will not make people lust over them. “Huh, that’s sorta unexpected but it makes sense why they only cost $0.50 a chip now!”