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Going from Online to Casino (23 Viewers)

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I have been an online player for a few years but have never played in person (besides a home game with buddies). What was everyone's biggest learning curve when stepping into a card room?

Sure you figure it out the more you go, but are there any good stories or tips you learned from your first time playing live?


Thanks
 
A handful of things you'll want to be aware of:
  • Dealers may make errors (typically rarely). It is on you and your fellow players to pay attention and call them out if you notice. Don't hesitate to call for a floorperson if you believe something improper has happened.
  • Protect your hand. Cover it well when you peel your cards; keep a card protector in place to keep the dealer from grabbing it by mistake.
  • Some cardrooms rake so much that the house is the only real winner. Know what the rake is before you start feeding it money.
  • You'll have to decide how much you want to tip and on what basis (usually the size of the pot won). You may be used to not tipping online, but fail to tip at least most of your winning pots live, and you'll quickly become known as that guy who doesn't tip.
  • Other players may try to shoot angles that aren't even possible online, e.g., acting out of turn, faking actions, hiding chips, pretending not to understand things, acting weird or lying at showdown to get you to muck a winner, calling all-in with one chip and then refusing to pay up when you win. The one-step solution to most of this is to ask the dealer if anything is ever in doubt. "Excuse me, could you please tell me what that player's action is? Could you give me a chip count on that player?" Don't be afraid to clarify if you have even a tiny doubt.
  • People bet amounts live that may strike you as out of proportion compared to how people bet online, especially preflop raises. Get used to the idea that people think about the dollar amounts differently live than online, and the skill level is usually nowhere near what it would be at the same stakes online.
  • Give the posted rules at least a cursory skim before you put money in play. Some places have unusual house rules that can get you by surprise.
I don't have any crazy stories from my first time playing in a public cardroom, but I do remember it, and one thing that stands out is nerves. It had to be so obvious that I was a newbie playing scared money. I felt and therefore looked out of my element. People can't read you like this online, but experienced players will smell that greenness and fear before you even sit down. There's probably not a lot you can do about it, just be aware of it and play a solid game. It will fade with time.
 
Biggest learning curve? It’s a different game!

Online poker is played by nerds in their bedrooms. Many hands, no physical tells, HUDs and bet sizing buttons make for a more mathematical game.

Live poker is played by people who like to gamble in casinos. Not just the relative stakes, but also the hand rate amps up the variance of a session- which attracts gamblers - which increases the variance some more.

You need practice to intuit who c-bets too much, what the pot size is and how big a 2e bet is to get it all in by the river. You do get longer to act but I find it difficult to slow down when I’m used to only having 30s.

Enjoy the ride.
 
Good advice so far.

Yes, watch the angles. But maybe you won't understand them until too late.

I recall one clearly. I bet and saw my single opponent move his hands as though mucking. In reality he had them hidden under his other hand. Thinking the hand was over and I had won, I pushed my cards toward dealer where they were collected. Angler just looked at me and said "I had you anyway".

So. My tip - keep your cards until you have the pot passed to you. Is good practice for many situations.
 
drdr said:
Good advice so far.

Yes, watch the angles. But maybe you won't understand them until too late.

I recall one clearly. I bet and saw my single opponent move his hands as though mucking. In reality he had them hidden under his other hand. Thinking the hand was over and I had won, I pushed my cards toward dealer where they were collected. Angler just looked at me and said "I had you anyway".

So. My tip - keep your cards until you have the pot passed to you. Is good practice for many situations.
Click to expand...
What have you done afterwards?
 
parazyd said:
What have you done afterwards?
Click to expand...
Was very early for my switch from online to live and I was pretty young/shy so I didn't do anything. I should have had the floor called for a ruling. Not sure that would have changed anything but it may have put the table and dealer on alert.
 
My favorite items for new live players:
1. Be sure of or confirm action in front of you.
2. Be okay that you'll most likely be nervous in your first few big pots.
3. Verbalize your own action to avoid mistakes.
4. Take your time but pay attention to know when it's your turn to take action.
 
My first 2 sessions playing live I bought in for $300 and played super tight for real short sessions.

The goal wasn’t to win as much as to just get oriented to how the game runs and feels because as has been said here, you WILL be nervous.

It was TOTALLY worth it as you’re more overwhelmed by the process of the game more so than the play of the game.

I played super tight and nitty for about 1.5 hours just so I could watch and digest what was going on. There is a LOT going on and it made my head spin a bit!

The dealers are much faster than you’d expect (35-40+ hands an hour with an auto shuffler), chips move in and out of the pot quickly (pulling in bets, giving change, taking the rake out), and not much tanking or posturing by players.

Watch the dealer move chips when not in a hand a few times. Familiarize yourself with where they put the rake and any additional “drop” taken for promotional contests (high hand, etc). And how they collect and put tips in their tip box. It was fascinating for me to see how this worked and helped me get more familiar and comfortable with the “process” of the game.

As mentioned, straddles can be confusing… button straddle (SB is first to act), UTG straddle (UTG first to act), Mississippi straddle (now usually re-defined as an “any position” straddle), sleeper straddles (I never see this one), mandatory UTG straddle (not really a straddle then, is it?), playing with a “rock” (the stupidest thing ever, avoid at all costs). It took me a while to comprehend how the straddle worked and how it affected the game when playing live.

If given the option, always “chop the blinds” as a poker courtesy. (Some casinos don’t allow this). This is when it folds around to the SB with no bets or straddles. The SB may look to you in the BB and ask “Chop it?”. If you agree, then you both pull back your blinds and toss in your cards. Sucks when you have a big hand but the SB is saying he’s not planning to play, so if he folds he’ll lose his blind. It’s not worth the bad sportsmanship for a $1 win by you. Chopping the blinds also avoids the house taking a rake since there was no flop. You may see this no rake rule listed as “no flop, no drop” by the casino.

Maybe review seat change and table change requests and how/when to use them.

Review “buying the button” and how to re-enter the game if you leave your seat for a break and the blinds pass you by while gone.

Don’t forget to tip the dealer if you win a hand. It varies, but I only ever tip $1 per hand. Some people tip more for bigger pots. There’s lots of discussions about this here on PCF.

Be aware that in these small, local casinos most of the players are regulars. They are on a first name basis with each other and the dealers. Mentally, that can be off-putting and make you paranoid of collusion (rarely, if ever, true).

Also, be aware that a lot of the OMC (old man coffee) regs buy in for $100 and just keep announcing they’re adding on to their stacks when they get low, pulling their spare $25 or $100 chips out of their pockets. They risk the minimum to start and hope to build their stack bit by bit over time. One guy I asked about this tactic said it’s to limit his losses to a “modern” poker player who uses “strategies” at the table. Basically, they’re cheap. This keeps the game small which is to their advantage when playing a super wide range of crap—but frustrating for a player like me that wants to take max advantage of that high VPIP play. So just be aware of your own first impression to the table if you walk up with $300 in $5 chips (and maybe another $200 in your pocket for add ons).

Be mentally “okay” with losing your entire stack. It will happen sooner or later. This is the #1 thing I had to overcome. You don’t want it to happen, but when it does, you can’t let it eat you up mentally or emotionally.

Final tips:
(1) view your first few live sessions as paying for poker lessons… any money you lose is probably worth what you learn;

(2) play the short / super-nitty / observational session, then leave and digest/process what you experienced; then return later for your “play my game for real” sessions;

(3) bring a light jacket, sweater, or sweatshirt… poker rooms can be notoriously cold at times and you want to be physically comfortable, even if mentally uncomfortable.

(4) Have fun. Enjoy the experience, not necessarily the outcome.

Good luck!
 
I agree with everything you said except this.

PokerDogDoc said:
If given the option, always “chop the blinds” as a poker courtesy. (Some casinos don’t allow this). This is when it folds around to the SB with no bets or straddles. The SB may look to you in the BB and ask “Chop it?”. If you agree, then you both pull back your blinds and toss in your cards. Sucks when you have a big hand but the SB is saying he’s not planning to play, so if he folds he’ll lose his blind. It’s not worth the bad sportsmanship for a $1 win by you. Chopping the blinds also avoids the house taking a rake since there was no flop. You may see this no rake rule listed as “no flop, no drop” by the casino.
Click to expand...
Chop if that's what you really want, but I don't recommend automatically accepting a chop whenever it's offered. Personally, I like playing heads-up in the blinds, and obviously I prefer it when I'm on the BB and have position. If the SB is just going to give up because he doesn't like playing this spot, that's on him. Give me the dollar and move on. If he wants to play it out, that's great too. I shouldn't feel obligated to pass on an advantageous spot just because the guy with the disadvantage doesn't want to play it out.

Where it gets hairier is that people who offer chops, in my experience, tend to have a strange understanding of consent. That is, if you agree to it once, they take that as a permanent blanket agreement to always chop whenever it folds around to the blinds, even though this was not actually discussed. A subset of people who do this will get really ornery if you refuse to chop on a later hand. The whole arrangement rubs me wrong and makes me never want to chop with anyone.
 
Tipping on the spot, after every pot won, is an enormous PITA, IMHO.
I 've only played publicly in a couple or three of quasi-underground cardrooms in Greece, and I 've always tipped after cashing out, as a winner, in a specific piggy bank provided by the house.
Btw, what is considered a decent tip as a percentage of the pot won, in America?
 
Coyote said:
Tipping on the spot, after every pot won, is an enormous PITA, IMHO.
I 've only played publicly in a couple or three of quasi-underground cardrooms in Greece, and I 've always tipped after cashing out, as a winner, in a specific piggy bank provided by the house.
Btw, what is considered a decent tip as a percentage of the pot won, in America?
Click to expand...
In the US, I have never known anyone to calculate tips as a percentage of the pot won. Standard is $1 per normal-sized pot. Lots of players will bump it to $2 or $3 for a large pot, and occasionally you'll see someone throw out a $5 chip for an exceptionally large pot. IMO anything larger outside of nosebleed stakes is donkey behavior.

I would not trust handing off a tip to the house with the expectation that it will get to the dealer(s), especially not in an underground game. In fact anywhere I've seen a tip cup at cashout, it's there to collect tips for the cashier, not the dealers. Is it the norm where you've played for people to do what you do, or do they tip the dealer on the spot as they win pots? The latter is much more normal everywhere I've been.

What do you find makes it such an enormous PITA?
 
Yes, most people kept their money to throw some into the piggy bank, if they ended up winning.
The piggy bank was intended for the dealers, but nobody really knows how it was distributed.
My view of the PITA is you don't really know (if you 're not locally experienced anywhere) how much to tip, and then, you may end up a looser upon cash-out.
 
Coyote said:
Yes, most people kept their money to throw some into the piggy bank, if they ended up winning.
The piggy bank was intended for the dealers, but nobody really knows how it was distributed.
My view of the PITA is you don't really know (if you 're not locally experienced anywhere) how much to tip, and then, you may end up a looser upon cash-out.
Click to expand...
This is my approach at home games; usually I will tip out the host on a winning night because I know how much work goes into it. Underground games, I treat much more like a casino business. They're making their money already, and tipping is expected on a per-pot basis at the table.

As to not knowing what to tip, I find it weird there isn't a culture around this already. In the US it's pretty standard wherever you go. You scoop the pot and flick a chip or two back to the dealer, and that's it. Yes, sometimes you will have left tips on a night when you ultimately lost, and that's expected. It's less complicated IMO than trying to decide how much to tip overall after a winning night. Are you tipping a preordained percentage of your net win?
 
In my house, it's never preordinated, on the desired but, alas, rare occasion we have a dedicated dealer. The dealer is always a friend. People (also friends) tip whatever they like upon cash-out.
Food-wise, I buy loosers' portions and only expect winners to pay for their portion.
Refreshments, alcohol-free beer and an elementary quantity of whisky are on the host.
Exotic drinks (tequilla, milk etc) or exotic quantities of Whisky, are expected to be brought by the players aiming at consuming them.
 
Coyote said:
In my house, it's never preordinated, on the desired but, alas, rare occasion we have a dedicated dealer. The dealer is always a friend. People (also friends) tip whatever they like upon cash-out.
Food-wise, I buy loosers' portions and only expect winners to pay for their portion.
Refreshments, alcohol-free beer and an elementary quantity of whisky are on the host.
Exotic drinks (tequilla, milk etc) or exotic quantities of Whisky, are expected to be brought by the players aiming at consuming them.
Click to expand...
What I'm asking is not about your house, but when you play in underground games. Your original question was what percentage is considered a good tip in America, but no one I've ever known here thinks about tipping at poker in terms of percentages.

I'm wondering if you calculate it like you're calculating tips for waitstaff like we do here, e.g., you intend to give 10% or whatever of your win as a standard tip. How do you decide how much to tip to the piggy bank in these underground games?
 
Jimulacrum said:
What I'm asking is not about your house, but when you play in underground games. Your original question was what percentage is considered a good tip in America, but no one I've ever known here thinks about tipping at poker in terms of percentages.

I'm wondering if you calculate it like you're calculating tips for waitstaff like we do here, e.g., you intend to give 10% or whatever of your win as a standard tip. How do you decide how much to tip to the piggy bank in these underground games?
Click to expand...
On these rare occasions I 've played there, I 've tipped something like 10% of my winnings.
 
After playing mostly online, in my own home game, and free roll tournaments (none with any tip of course) I was mortified at the end of the _next_ hand when I realized I hadn’t tipped my first winning hand back at a proper casino. I’d won one of my first hands after sitting down and was still mentally settling in. It put me on tilt for a while until I won my next pot and was able to tip. Didn’t want to be that guy at the table.
 
Kentucky said:
After playing mostly online, in my own home game, and free roll tournaments (none with any tip of course) I was mortified at the end of the _next_ hand when I realized I hadn’t tipped my first winning hand back at a proper casino. I’d won one of my first hands after sitting down and was still mentally settling in. It put me on tilt for a while until I won my next pot and was able to tip. Didn’t want to be that guy at the table.
Click to expand...
Easy recovery from this is to ask the dealer, "Did I get you that last hand I won?" If you really feel bad about it, throw an extra buck to penalize yourself. You don't have to wait until the next hand.
 
Coyote said:
On these rare occasions I 've played there, I 've tipped something like 10% of my winnings.
Click to expand...
I wonder how this compares to the net tips you'd have paid at the rate I talked about. I imagine it's somewhat close.
 
Jimulacrum said:
I agree with everything you said except this.


Chop if that's what you really want, but I don't recommend automatically accepting a chop whenever it's offered. Personally, I like playing heads-up in the blinds, and obviously I prefer it when I'm on the BB and have position. If the SB is just going to give up because he doesn't like playing this spot, that's on him. Give me the dollar and move on. If he wants to play it out, that's great too. I shouldn't feel obligated to pass on an advantageous spot just because the guy with the disadvantage doesn't want to play it out.

Where it gets hairier is that people who offer chops, in my experience, tend to have a strange understanding of consent. That is, if you agree to it once, they take that as a permanent blanket agreement to always chop whenever it folds around to the blinds, even though this was not actually discussed. A subset of people who do this will get really ornery if you refuse to chop on a later hand. The whole arrangement rubs me wrong and makes me never want to chop with anyone.
Click to expand...

Not wanting to derail the OP’s post, and always happy to play blind v. blind, but IMO at 1/2 or 1/3 there is more player goodwill to be had by accepting a chop when I’m in the BB rather than forcing the SB to fold a hand (to win $1) that they would fold anyway.

At higher stakes (2/5 or higher) I don’t see this happen.

Just my 2¢.
 
PokerDogDoc said:
Not wanting to derail the OP’s post, and always happy to play blind v. blind, but IMO at 1/2 or 1/3 there is more player goodwill to be had by accepting a chop when I’m in the BB rather than forcing the SB to fold a hand (to win $1) that they would fold anyway.

At higher stakes (2/5 or higher) I don’t see this happen.

Just my 2¢.
Click to expand...
Fair point. I'm self-aware of my tendency to resent social pressure.
 
If playing Hold em, skip no limit and play limit first. It will help with the nerves and allow you to get familiar with action at a table which can be confusing when you don't have a computer program to keep the game organized for you.
 

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