Controversial Chip & Poker Opinions (24 Viewers)

[Poker Zombie]

Hmm…Controversial indeed, I must be a bad poker (or crazy) because I would probability encourage other players to use solvers at a live poker table that I am at, while I don’t use a solver for myself. Guess I am just a fish.

Interesting thought…

As everyone reads this post, players will be posting “dibs” to take a seat at my table.

I'm sort of in your camp.

At my games I have index cards with the blind structure on one side and a cheat-sheet (hand rankings and a guide for chip color/denoms). It's better than a newb making a mistake by forgetting if a straight or a flush is better - or having to ask. However, when they pause to read the cheat-sheet, you know they are likely on a hand (and it is better than 2-pair). the board texture will tell you the rest.

Apply that same thing to a GTO table. Even newbs understand what to do with a monster, so if they are glancing at their solver they are on a more middling hand. It's an easy tell, but would also be likely to save some fish from calling too often.

However, I'm only "sort of" in favor of solvers at the table, because they can clutter the table, slow the game needlessly, and it takes some of the human element out of the equation. I also have little desire to return to online poker, due to the use of solvers and dashboards. When humans are taken out of poker, it takes the psychological element out of the game, which is my favorite part (I hate the math).

 

[jr8719]

Greatest. Musical. Ever.

 

[upNdown]

Greatest. Musical. Ever.

A Chorus Line.

 

[dpeks13]

Didn't know there were a bunch of poker chip Musicals out there.

 

[dizzyChipper]

The x2 jump from $500 to $1000 is stupid.

I want $1k and $5k chips not to exist.

I want Purple $500, Pink $2,500 and $10k, 50k, 250k, $1mm whatever color...

These are the right denoms:
.01, .05, .25
1, 5, 25
100, 500, 2500
10k, 50k, 250k,
1mm....

 

[JMC9389]

The x2 jump from $500 to $1000 is stupid.

I want $1k and $5k chips not to exist.

I want Purple $500, Pink $2,500 and $10k, 50k, 250k, $1mm whatever color...

These are the right denoms:
.01, .05, .25
1, 5, 25
100, 500, 2500
10k, 50k, 250k,
1mm....

I like it. I don't agree but I like it in the spirit of the thread.

Here's another one. T500 chips for a T25 base tournament set are almost useless. One can build a tournament set that functions just as well with more T100's and jump to T1k after that.

The same is true for cash sets. It's very easy to go from a $100 chip to a $1000 chip. Plus, this allows for MOAR chips.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

The x2 jump from $500 to $1000 is stupid.

I want $1k and $5k chips not to exist.

I want Purple $500, Pink $2,500 and $10k, 50k, 250k, $1mm whatever color...

These are the right denoms:
.01, .05, .25
1, 5, 25
100, 500, 2500
10k, 50k, 250k,
1mm....

You realize that you can have custom chips made and do whatever you want at YOUR games.

When I was a n00b, I felt this way, and even had a tournament set made with $2K chips. I used them once. In theory it seems like the right thing to do, but in practice, I hated them. I wasn't completely sure when I had the set made, so I made $1K chips also. Now I only use the $1K chips. I can't logically explain it, but $1K chips are 100x times better than $2K or $2.5K chips. Just accept it. The masses will never change.

 

[dizzyChipper]

You realize that you can have custom chips made and do whatever you want at YOUR games.

When I was a n00b, I felt this way, and even had a tournament set made with $2K chips. I used them once. In theory it seems like the right thing to do, but in practice, I hated them. I wasn't completely sure when I had the set made, so I made $1K chips also. Now I only use the $1K chips. I can't logically explain it, but $1K chips are 100x times better than $2K or $2.5K chips. Just accept it. The masses will never change.

Oh I don't like $20 chips or $2k chips either!

I know I could but I didn't do it. I hate it but we're used to what we're used to.

 

[Poker Zombie]

If the set tops off with an odd chip (2,000, 2,500, $20) it's not so bad.

It's when the odd chips are in stacks and you have to count them in a half-drunken state that you quickly realize the error you've made.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

If the set tops off with an odd chip (2,000, 2,500, $20) it's not so bad.

It's when the odd chips are in stacks and you have to count them in a half-drunken state that you quickly realize the error you've made.

Agreed! I happen to love $20 chips, but only as the highest value chip in a low stakes cash game. Even better if it's over-sized. But for a larger game, where $100 chips might make it into play, then I will use $25s.

 

[sup_squidy]

Just read a thread where some noob possibly unknowingly/knowingly replicated some poker chip designs against the original creator’s wishes. It got me thinking about an unpopular opinion for the thread to talk about.

Isn’t it a bit hypocritical for some NAGB AKA (Not A Gambling Business) AKA Not a group buy chip designers to say, "You can’t copy my chips, it’s against my wishes," when they themselves acquired Paulson chips by pretending to be a casino — directly going against the wishes of the manufacturer, GPI?

GPI has made it clear they don’t want to sell to private individuals. But many of us said, "We don’t care what GPI wants, we just want authentic Paulson's with cool spot patterns." That’s GPI’s intellectual property, and they only intended those chips for licensed casinos for the sake of their business.

So how is it fair for someone who ignored GPI’s rules to now turn around and tell others/poors/hobbists, "You can’t break the rules to get chips I didn’t authorize you to have either"? Homie that's what you did lol.

You're gatekeeping a design that wasn’t yours to obtain in the first place. You obtained them through fraud. Not as robin hood either these sets were gifted to the community at a markup. (I do thank you for this heist those chips are insane and I hope to buy some in future bc that's also part that makes them cool/historical to me. The mark up should exist its a ton of work and capital to pull that off. I understand cheap imitations could devalue your chips or tarnish their prestige AKA the sake of YOUR business. Its the same reason LV goes after fakes so aggressively.

I think someone that orders and designs CPC sets is perfectly right to say these are my intellectual property not only creatively but for the security of their game but its certainly hypocritical for NAGB designers/purchasers to tell anyone anything about obtaining chips against their wishes.

Interested in what you guys think Bc logically CPC designers are right NAGB are hypocritical.

P.S. Just a discussion not my opinion personally I don't think anyone should be ripping anyone's designs without compensation or permission. Though imitation is inevitable in any art and I believe that's a beneficial natural progression.

 

[JeepologyOffroad]

tarnish their prestige AKA the sake of YOUR business

I don’t and didn’t have a business related to the chips. I asked not to copy my design because of the INSANE amount of time and effort put into them as a passion project. I did not commit any fraud or deception either. It was just the culmination and peak of all my years in the hobby and something I actually put my soul into. Now that may sound stupid to you. Caring so much about little clay disks and their design… but it wasn’t to me.

Also plenty of others nagbs have been publicly Tina’d. It hasn’t changed the monetary value of the real deal.

Not as robin hood either these sets were gifted to the community at a markup.

I also gifted many people chips. You are making a lot of leaps and assumptions in your post.

 

[cpac54]

Just read a thread where some noob possibly unknowingly/knowingly replicated some poker chip designs against the original creator’s wishes. It got me thinking about an unpopular opinion for the thread to talk about.

Isn’t it a bit hypocritical for some NAGB AKA (Not A Gambling Business) AKA Not a group buy chip designers to say, "You can’t copy my chips, it’s against my wishes," when they themselves acquired Paulson chips by pretending to be a casino — directly going against the wishes of the manufacturer, GPI?

GPI has made it clear they don’t want to sell to private individuals. But many of us said, "We don’t care what GPI wants, we just want authentic Paulson's with cool spot patterns." That’s GPI’s intellectual property, and they only intended those chips for licensed casinos for the sake of their business.

So how is it fair for someone who ignored GPI’s rules to now turn around and tell others/poors/hobbists, "You can’t break the rules to get chips I didn’t authorize you to have either"? Homie that's what you did lol.

You're gatekeeping a design that wasn’t yours to obtain in the first place. You obtained them through fraud. Not as robin hood either these sets were gifted to the community at a markup. (I do thank you for this heist those chips are insane and I hope to buy some in future bc that's also part that makes them cool/historical to me. The mark up should exist its a ton of work and capital to pull that off. I understand cheap imitations could devalue your chips or tarnish their prestige AKA the sake of YOUR business. Its the same reason LV goes after fakes so aggressively.

I think someone that orders and designs CPC sets is perfectly right to say these are my intellectual property not only creatively but for the security of their game but its certainly hypocritical for NAGB designers/purchasers to tell anyone anything about obtaining chips against their wishes.

Interested in what you guys think Bc logically CPC designers are right NAGB are hypocritical.

P.S. Just a discussion not my opinion personally I don't think anyone should be ripping anyone's designs without compensation or permission. Though imitation is inevitable in any art and I believe that's a beneficial natural progression.

I’ve read some bad takes in my time on PCF, and this one is up there with the worst of them. Bravo.

 

[sup_squidy]

I don’t and didn’t have a business related to the chips. I asked not to copy my design because of the INSANE amount of time and effort put into them as a passion project. I did not commit any fraud or deception either. It was just the culmination and peak of all my years in the hobby and something I actually put my soul into. Now that may sound stupid to you. Caring so much about little clay disks and their design… but it wasn’t to me.

I don't think that's stupid at all I think that's VERY reasonable

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

when they themselves acquired Paulson chips by pretending to be a casino — directly going against the wishes of the manufacturer, GPI?

They're not pretending to be a Casino. They have a legitimate gaming license & on top of that I'm extremely confident Paulson knows that these chips will not ever be used in a brick & mortar casino.

 

[sup_squidy]

They're not pretending to be a Casino. They have a legitimate gaming license & on top of that I'm extremely confident Paulson knows that these chips will not ever be used in a brick & mortar casino.

If GPI knows the chips will never be used in a brick and mortar casino are you saying we've got like an allowance of orders we can squeak by they're okay with? That there is no trickery? the NAGB are sanctioned by them?

 

[Cratty]

IMO, and take this as worth nothing since I haven't been in a NAGB... I don't think GPI cares all that much as long as you:

1. Have a casino license
2. Buy in large enough quantities
3. Are not producing chips that may compromise the security of their larger casino/corporate partners

In my limited back/forth with my regional GPI sales team, it sounded like they didn't care much about exactly what the chips were to be used for as long as on paper they could point to the above. Doesn't really seem like folks are "getting the better" of GPI or tricking them, just operating under the system/rules setup. But there's a grey line with #2/#3.

 

[sup_squidy]

If GPI knows the chips will never be used in a brick and mortar casino are you saying we've got like an allowance of orders we can squeak by they're okay with? That there is no trickery? the NAGB are sanctioned by them?

At that point GPI why not allow future runs of the same design? Or is that part of the hard work and artistic idea. The idea of a limited run of ephemeral chips. Makes its special for those involved and the collectors. I was under the impression these orders were not allowed and couldn't be refilled like a normal casinos stock of chips bc they are not allowed and quickly figured out to be unsanctioned purchases

 

[Kam]

Just read a thread where some noob possibly unknowingly/knowingly replicated some poker chip designs against the original creator’s wishes. It got me thinking about an unpopular opinion for the thread to talk about.

Isn’t it a bit hypocritical for some NAGB AKA (Not A Gambling Business) AKA Not a group buy chip designers to say, "You can’t copy my chips, it’s against my wishes," when they themselves acquired Paulson chips by pretending to be a casino — directly going against the wishes of the manufacturer, GPI?

GPI has made it clear they don’t want to sell to private individuals. But many of us said, "We don’t care what GPI wants, we just want authentic Paulson's with cool spot patterns." That’s GPI’s intellectual property, and they only intended those chips for licensed casinos for the sake of their business.

So how is it fair for someone who ignored GPI’s rules to now turn around and tell others/poors/hobbists, "You can’t break the rules to get chips I didn’t authorize you to have either"? Homie that's what you did lol.

You're gatekeeping a design that wasn’t yours to obtain in the first place. You obtained them through fraud. Not as robin hood either these sets were gifted to the community at a markup. (I do thank you for this heist those chips are insane and I hope to buy some in future bc that's also part that makes them cool/historical to me. The mark up should exist its a ton of work and capital to pull that off. I understand cheap imitations could devalue your chips or tarnish their prestige AKA the sake of YOUR business. Its the same reason LV goes after fakes so aggressively.

I think someone that orders and designs CPC sets is perfectly right to say these are my intellectual property not only creatively but for the security of their game but its certainly hypocritical for NAGB designers/purchasers to tell anyone anything about obtaining chips against their wishes.

Interested in what you guys think Bc logically CPC designers are right NAGB are hypocritical.

P.S. Just a discussion not my opinion personally I don't think anyone should be ripping anyone's designs without compensation or permission. Though imitation is inevitable in any art and I believe that's a beneficial natural progression.

 

[jayfiggy]

1. Have a casino license
2. Buy in large enough quantities
3. Are not producing chips that may compromise the security of their larger casino/corporate partners

Isn’t step 1 starting to fade? TCV doesn’t have a casino license and still coordinated the Faro Dunes purchase.

I’m sure step 1 is still in place for most people, but it seems with the right connections GPI is starting to loosen up on the whole BS “security” thing.

 

[chippitydoodah]

I like it. I don't agree but I like it in the spirit of the thread.

Here's another one. T500 chips for a T25 base tournament set are almost useless. One can build a tournament set that functions just as well with more T100's and jump to T1k after that.

The same is true for cash sets. It's very easy to go from a $100 chip to a $1000 chip. Plus, this allows for MOAR chips.

 

[chippitydoodah]

Isn’t step 1 starting to fade? TCV doesn’t have a casino license and still coordinated the Faro Dunes purchase.

I’m sure step 1 is still in place for most people, but it seems with the right connections GPI is starting to loosen up on the whole BS “security” thing.

Nothing's impossible when you're the Dude (my nickname for Jim at @TheChipVault ). Doors open, people smile, deals are made smooth when you're the Dude.

 

[Cratty]

Isn’t step 1 starting to fade? TCV doesn’t have a casino license and still coordinated the Faro Dunes purchase.

I’m sure step 1 is still in place for most people, but it seems with the right connections GPI is starting to loosen up on the whole BS “security” thing.

All speculative.. My gut says there are many globally that hold casino licenses, and some may be more amenable than others to allow purchases through theirs. There may be a blacklisting clause in the agreement if chips are sold retail, but something license holders may or may not care about depending on their operation.

 

[JeepologyOffroad]

Isn’t step 1 starting to fade?

I don’t think so. Would be cool as shit tho

 

[upNdown]

Just read a thread where some noob possibly unknowingly/knowingly replicated some poker chip designs against the original creator’s wishes. It got me thinking about an unpopular opinion for the thread to talk about.

Isn’t it a bit hypocritical for some NAGB AKA (Not A Gambling Business) AKA Not a group buy chip designers to say, "You can’t copy my chips, it’s against my wishes," when they themselves acquired Paulson chips by pretending to be a casino — directly going against the wishes of the manufacturer, GPI?

GPI has made it clear they don’t want to sell to private individuals. But many of us said, "We don’t care what GPI wants, we just want authentic Paulson's with cool spot patterns." That’s GPI’s intellectual property, and they only intended those chips for licensed casinos for the sake of their business.

So how is it fair for someone who ignored GPI’s rules to now turn around and tell others/poors/hobbists, "You can’t break the rules to get chips I didn’t authorize you to have either"? Homie that's what you did lol.

You're gatekeeping a design that wasn’t yours to obtain in the first place. You obtained them through fraud. Not as robin hood either these sets were gifted to the community at a markup. (I do thank you for this heist those chips are insane and I hope to buy some in future bc that's also part that makes them cool/historical to me. The mark up should exist its a ton of work and capital to pull that off. I understand cheap imitations could devalue your chips or tarnish their prestige AKA the sake of YOUR business. Its the same reason LV goes after fakes so aggressively.

I think someone that orders and designs CPC sets is perfectly right to say these are my intellectual property not only creatively but for the security of their game but its certainly hypocritical for NAGB designers/purchasers to tell anyone anything about obtaining chips against their wishes.

Interested in what you guys think Bc logically CPC designers are right NAGB are hypocritical.

P.S. Just a discussion not my opinion personally I don't think anyone should be ripping anyone's designs without compensation or permission. Though imitation is inevitable in any art and I believe that's a beneficial natural progression.

You’re making the wrong argument. One of the early NAGBs made identical copies (in terms of base color, spot pattern, and spot color) of WSOP tournament chips. Proponents of those chips will argue that the chips were on a different mold and had a different inlay. But the WSOP took that (relatively new) chipset out of circulation.
Say something controversial with that information.

 

[Cratty]

I don’t think so. Would be cool as shit tho

Yeah, I have to imagine that the reason for the exit from retail was more driven by Casinos/cardrooms that forced the decision for security as a part of their contracts. If accurate, and unless their largest customers go virtual, don't see retail purchase lanes opening back up any time soon.

But I've speculated long enough here now. Lol

 

[JeepologyOffroad]

Also - this conversation has been had before in this very thread. Probably many times lol

Lol I like to imagine there's one guy at GPI who isn't in on the joke and has this up on his wall.

"PAUL. I'm telling you man, the SHIPS. WEREN'T. REAL. THEY NEVER WERE. This Tiger Palace? I been Googling and searching and I find NOTHING. Couple Chinese food joints that look like they barely have a restroom, let alone $25,000 bets! WHAT'S GOING ON?"

LOL of course GPI knew Tigers were for PCF. Like was mentioned before in this thread - you just have to know the right guy. His name is Richard in accounting. Goes by Dick. He likes the little donuts from the vending machine on the 2nd floor. Cinnamon not chocolate. Good luck.

"Hey Pete, I'm telling you. What casino needs this many fracs in 2023? Plus, they're so colorful and there's no city on the label. And get this, Pete. They ordered DEALER BUTTONS. Red flags everywhere."

"I know, Dick. Let's run this one back up the chain and have them reconfirm their gaming license. Those 300 weirdos on that one website aren't gonna get over on us this time!"

 

[sup_squidy]

GPI handling an order with three unique quarter designs.

Also - this conversation has been had before in this very thread. Probably many times lol

 

[allforcharity]

There is no doubt in my mind that GPI is aware that chip requests from casino licensees are going out to the private market en masse. They placate this market by letting the occasional order through, letting everybody pat themselves on the back by being very clever and getting another one past The Man, while they just count their meager profit and concentrate on their core business.

 

[Josh Kifer]

I don't like $20 chips

I will say, if you bank alot and you crew brings nothing but 20s, 20 chips start becoming a lot easier to get. Makes cash ins lighting fast. Chip per bill.