Controversial Chip & Poker Opinions (25 Viewers)

TX_Golf_N_Poker said:
Some good points. I'm with you on the fluffers, as long as the price really is absurd. I'm guilty myself of posting positive comments in sale adds, but only if the price is reasonable. Especially some of the really nice custom CPC sets that sell for 30-50% below replacement cost. It's sad to me that some of these sell so cheaply. It's part of the reason why I haven't rushed to make a custom set myself. CPC chips are every bit as nice as non-leaded Paulsons, and yet they often go for fire sale prices. Wish there was a stronger market for them. Or maybe the flip side is that they are some of the best deals out there in clay chips?
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Well who wants somebody else’s customs?
I dunno, I guess it depends on what appeals to you. I always thought real casino chips had a level of coolness that fantasy chips and customs could never approach. Some people feel the opposite way.

On the other hand, after ages of experience, I’ve learned I really dislike the RHC mold, and I’d much prefer my own customs on a cool CPC mold than casino RHCs.

In the other hand, I’ve bought RHC sets from the chiproom at least four times (and sold them quickly) and I’ve bought other people’s cool mold custom CPCs zero times.

I dunno.
 
If CPC shuts down, do their chips become the next TRKs/BCCs? Especially if the only true custom option left are crappy chinese chips?
 
upNdown said:
Well who wants somebody else’s customs?
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Well, apparently everyone who buys tigers, boat chips, and all the Paulson fantasy line chips do.

upNdown said:
I dunno, I guess it depends on what appeals to you. I always thought real casino chips had a level of coolness that fantasy chips and customs could never approach. Some people feel the opposite way.

On the other hand, after ages of experience, I’ve learned I really dislike the RHC mold, and I’d much prefer my own customs on a cool CPC mold than casino RHCs.
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I don't disagree with either of these points.

upNdown said:
In the other hand, I’ve bought RHC sets from the chiproom at least four times (and sold them quickly) and I’ve bought other people’s cool mold custom CPCs zero times.

I dunno.
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We all have different likes, so I can't expect everyone to want someone else's customs. I'm just surprised that almost no one does. That's all. There are some cool sets that have been listed recently, My opinion, a lot of them have WAY better looking inlay art than a lot of casino chips. And even if you don't care for the inlay artwork, why can't people do inlay replacement on CPCs just like we do on Paulsons? I'm just saying that a custom CPC set can be a much better deal than some of these RHC casino sets that seem to sell like wildfire, in spite of ugly inlay, excessive wear, and hooker juice!

I'll take someone else's CSQ, jockey mold, HHR, H mold or several others long before I would take heavily used RHC casino chips. I do have one RHC set, but all the chips are from very excellent used to mint condition.

And another advantage to a CPC set is if you buy a used one that's too small and need more chips, you can simply order more of them from CPC. No need to hunt and scrounge through the classifieds hoping you can find the same chip.
 
grantc54 said:
each bump in a sales add should require a mandatory 2% price drop.
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I'd rather see a mandatory bump fee assessed. Initial listings and weekly bumps are free; any more frequent bumps hit the seller's wallet. $1 to $10 per bump seems reasonable.

Would seriously clear out the excessive post clutter -- some high-seller members here have huge post counts where 75% are nothing but 'bump', especially seen on items priced too high to generate buyers.

Upside = more PCF give-aways (purchased using the bump fees).
 
BGinGA said:
I'd rather see a mandatory bump fee assessed. Initial listings and weekly bumps are free; any more frequent bumps hit the seller's wallet. $1 to $10 per bump seems reasonable.

Would seriously clear out the excessive post clutter -- some high-seller members here have huge post counts where 75% are nothing but 'bump', especially seen on items priced too high to generate buyers.

Upside = more PCF give-aways (purchased using the bump fees).
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The crazy thing is there’s only like 3 or 4 members that consistently do this. And we probably can all name the same few members. It should be fixed!
 
Related to the above I had the long winded post that I'm going to distill down but keep it to just active clay producers (or "clay" if you prefer). This is just my take mind.

Paulson TH&C (leaded are better but not that much better) are the best poker chips as far as texture, construction (usually), color palette (untouchable), and resale value. But you can't customize at all (murder is not custom, it's semi custom). They are expensive (almost always) and a pain in ass to assemble of good playable set of (usually). Still when you handle them you know why folks go ga ga for them. Paulson/GPI don't sell to the public. Except it seems they kind of do. The whole thing makes my head hurt.

CPC are nearly the best and maybe in some ways should be considered the best. Just look at the insane amount of customization possible. It is nuts if you think about it. Over 70 something spot patterns, it goes to 120+ if you get into the nutball 2V122DSA18 type of nonesense. 37 colors even if you bitch about the yellows. 15 molds. 2 chip sizes. But they are expensive, sometimes even more than Paulson, have a long wait period, and some operatonal issues, eveness of stacking being my personal bugaboo. But if I want some (or want some more) I place an order and sometime in the next 4 months - year, I'll get 'em. They are old school as fuck and that is way cool. When I handle them they are very pleasing with their own kind of vibe.

CPC customs just don't have as much resale value because they are still in business and selling directly to the public . You can get your own customs. I think what hurts a lot of CPC used sales is the owner having picked a very naff inlay ("My Stupid Themed Card Room" in "My Very Specific City"). That said there are and have been several sets that I would pay a pretty penny for. If CPC went out of business today their value would obviously shift and shift a lot. I'd hazard there are way more Paulson fantasy chips in the wild than custom ASM/CPC.

I'm sure I had a specific point but I lost it.

Anyhow happy Friday.
 
MeridianFC said:
Related to the above I had the long winded post that I'm going to distill down but keep it to just active clay producers (or "clay" if you prefer). This is just my take mind.

Paulson TH&C (leaded are better but not that much better) are the best poker chips as far as texture, construction (usually), color palette (untouchable), and resale value. But you can't customize at all (murder is not custom, it's semi custom). They are expensive (almost always) and a pain in ass to assemble of good playable set of (usually). Still when you handle them you know why folks go ga ga for them. Paulson/GPI don't sell to the public. Except it seems they kind of do. The whole thing makes my head hurt.

CPC are nearly the best and maybe in some ways should be considered the best. Just look at the insane amount of customization possible. It is nuts if you think about it. Over 70 something spot patterns, it goes to 120+ if you get into the nutball 2V122DSA18 type of nonesense. 37 colors even if you bitch about the yellows. 15 molds. 2 chip sizes. But they are expensive, sometimes even more than Paulson, have a long wait period, and some operatonal issues, eveness of stacking being my personal bugaboo. But if I want some (or want some more) I place an order and sometime in the next 4 months - year, I'll get 'em. They are old school as fuck and that is way cool. When I handle them they are very pleasing with their own kind of vibe.

CPC customs just don't have as much resale value because they are still in business and selling directly to the public . You can get your own customs. I think what hurts a lot of CPC used sales is the owner having picked a very naff inlay ("My Stupid Themed Card Room" in "My Very Specific City"). That said there are and have been several sets that I would pay a pretty penny for. If CPC went out of business today their value would obviously shift and shift a lot. I'd hazard there are way more Paulson fantasy chips in the wild than custom ASM/CPC.

I'm sure I had a specific point but I lost it.

Anyhow happy Friday.
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where are TRKs? Leaded TRKs > THC Leaded > RHC Leaded >THC Unleaded > RHC Unleaded > TRK Unleaded
 
joeyshin said:
where are TRKs? Leaded TRKs > THC Leaded > RHC Leaded >THC Unleaded > RHC Unleaded > TRK Unleaded
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I prefaced with "active clay producers" so TRK is out. That is strictly collector territory now.

RHC is a fair point so just imagine they're in this discussion somewhere. The point was more Paulson and CPC. I said "posts above" but I obviously wasn't talking about the Classifieds discussion, but what @upNdown and @TX_Golf_N_Poker were going back and forth on.
 
joeyshin said:
where are TRKs? Leaded TRKs > THC Leaded > RHC Leaded >THC Unleaded > RHC Unleaded > TRK Unleaded
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Leaded TRKs are awesome, but people who insist on putting them above leaded THCs do so either out of some need for exclusivity or else they have a some freaky kink. They do not look better than THCs, no how, no way.
 
upNdown said:
Leaded TRKs are awesome, but people who insist on putting them above leaded THCs do so either out of some need for exclusivity or else they have a some freaky kink. They do not look better than THCs, no how, no way.
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they dont look better....they feel better and sound better.....Butterface
 
upNdown said:
Leaded TRKs are awesome, but people who insist on putting them above leaded THCs do so either out of some need for exclusivity or else they have a some freaky kink. They do not look better than THCs, no how, no way.
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joeyshin said:
they dont look better....they feel better and sound better.....Butterface
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Feel and sound are subjective, but for me, the inability to compile a playable set (or sets) where condition, weight, and stack heights were consistent was a deal-breaker. In a vacuum, they are great, but in my chip closet, they are a disappointment. I ended up selling all of my TRK chips, including Riversides, Jesse Becks, and King Crowns, plus several others.

If TRK custom chips were still being produced, they would not have the allure that they have today. Merely looking at their order numbers prior to closing in 2007 makes that pretty clear.
 
I am just not a CPC guy. There are probably a couple custom sets I would buy if they came on the market, but the CPC color palette is a big detractor for me. Also, I just don’t like the feel. Granted, I have not felt every mold, but the ones I have, they simply feel “cheap” to me. Definitely not worth the “premium” they would cost me to make.

As @MeridianFC mentioned, the custom inlays on most CPC chips are a big detractor as well. I know they have meaning to the creators, but most of the time it’s not a theme I am interested in. That’s no different than those that come up with their own Paulson custom relabel sets. I have seen some absolutely incredible relabel sets from those that have brilliant minds on how to coordinate chips, but I wouldn’t want their theme on a set I was going to use.
 
+1 on not being a CPC guy. Spent hours and hours on the design tool but after I ordered a sample colour and sample mold sets I decided to go with a label replacement with THC chips instead. Couldn't be happier with my decision.
 
swana said:
+1 on not being a CPC guy. Spent hours and hours on the design tool but after I ordered a sample colour and sample mold sets I decided to go with a label replacement with THC chips instead. Couldn't be happier with my decision.
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im the same. I think peoples customs are awesome, but i would never make a cpc set. I've tried a bunch of the molds and while i think the csq feel the best, they still feel subpar and plasticky. I just can't do it. I dont think i even own any ASM/CPCs after selling my Roman mold Rounders. I think i have a few Kifer Milling money chips but thats it
 
I completely get not being down with the CPC thang. And while subjective, I always thought ASM/CPC felt way more like, well, actual clay than any other chip.

As far as TRK, I think they are the absolute business. I've noted elsewhere on PCF that in the past (late 90s/early 00s) that I almost got a custom set but just couldn't get past the price. I just did a quick check and the cost in today's money would've been $3.45/chip for 1000 (the usual minimum order was for 5,000 chips, at that number the price was maybe halved). Whatever it was was reasonable but, you know, 5000 chips. If I knew then what I knew now, but I didn't. No one ever does.
 
MeridianFC said:
CPC customs just don't have as much resale value because they are still in business and selling directly to the public . You can get your own customs. I think what hurts a lot of CPC used sales is the owner having picked a very naff inlay ("My Stupid Themed Card Room" in "My Very Specific City"). That said there are and have been several sets that I would pay a pretty penny for. If CPC went out of business today their value would obviously shift and shift a lot. I'd hazard there are way more Paulson fantasy chips in the wild than custom ASM/CPC.
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This is the real catch with Paulsons. You simply cannot order more, so the value is higher than it would be if they were available to the public.

I really don't think it'll happen in my lifetime, but as todays youth exchanges money electronically, casinos will catch on and make more and more tables electronic. When the last casino does away with physical chips for unmanned electronic tables, Paulson will either stop producing chips, or they will market them to the public.

If option B happens, nobody would be spending $10 a chip on any fantasy chip. Meanwhile, Paulsons like the Artichoke Joes may still hold their value because they are collectable.
 
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Poker Zombie said:
This is the real catch with Paulsons. You simply cannot order more, so the value is higher than it would be if they were available to the public.

I really don't think it'll happen in my lifetime, but as todays youth exchanges money electronically, casinos will catch on and make more and more tables electronic. When the last casino does away with physical chips for unmanned electronic tables, Paulson will either stop producing chips, or they will market them to the public.

If option B happens, nobody would be spending $10 a chip on any fantasy chip. Artichoke Joes though, may still hold their value from a collectors point of view.
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Option B seems like a pipe dream. No way can Paulson support their chip manufacturing on home chips. I expect the market for Paulson level chips is very small.

I keep waiting for GPI to go plastics only. It actually seems local casinos are going from plastics to clay at the moment.

As per my wife, I'm mostly wrong. So hopefully that means fantasy clays for all!
 
grantc54 said:
No way can Paulson support their chip manufacturing on home chips.
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CPC does, and the majority prefer Paulsons feel, color palate, and perhaps by a slight edge their spot options. If Pauslon sold to the public, CPC couldn't support their chip manufacturing on home chips.

...which might make old CPCs more valuable.


...but I agree that it's a pipe dream.
 
FestiveKnight said:
Sarcasm?
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I think it’s a fair response. What are fantasy chips, if not a big set of customs that were marketed to the public? And boat chips and tiger chips are exactly that.
And here’s another distinction I make - there are some people who insist that chips like PCNY and Golden Eagle aren’t real casino chips, since those casinos never opened. BS I say!
I don’t care if the teams behind the boat chips and tiger chips actually held a gaming license - those chips were never intended to be on casino tables, they were 100% made exclusively to get into the hands of chip colllectors. The gaming license wasn’t the intent, it was the excuse and it was a ruse. That makes them fantasy chips. PCNYs and Golden Eagles were made to be used in casinos that never actually happened. They’re casino chips. There’s a clear difference.
 
upNdown said:
I think it’s a fair response. What are fantasy chips, if not a big set of customs that were marketed to the public? And boat chips and tiger chips are exactly that.
And here’s another distinction I make - there are some people who insist that chips like PCNY and Golden Eagle aren’t real casino chips, since those casinos never opened. BS I say!
I don’t care if the teams behind the boat chips and tiger chips actually held a gaming license - those chips were never intended to be on casino tables, they were 100% made exclusively to get into the hands of chip colllectors. The gaming license wasn’t the intent, it was the excuse and it was a ruse. That makes them fantasy chips. PCNYs and Golden Eagles were made to be used in casinos that never actually happened. They’re casino chips. There’s a clear difference.
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I disagree. When we talk about "customs" especially in the context of "why don't personal CPC sets sell well?" we mean "personal customs." Sets with meaning to a group or individual and heavily customized and not intended for an audience broader than the purchaser.

Yes, NAGB chips are large sets of chips designed by chippers (as opposed to casino-employed designers) but they are not chipper-designed custom sets. They are meant to have mass market appeal. I see no difference between the chip design of Tiger Palace, Montecarlos, Claysmiths, or the new Sunfly Oasis chips. They're all designed to sell to large audience. Which is NOT the same as a "custom" set.

To my knowledge know one has ever nominated NAGB chips for a HOF thread and I think we would all find that ridiculous. In comparison to most HOF sets which are usually quite personalized.
 
FestiveKnight said:
I disagree. When we talk about "customs" especially in the context of "why don't personal CPC sets sell well?" we mean "personal customs." Sets with meaning to a group or individual and heavily customized and not intended for an audience broader than the purchaser.

Yes, NAGB chips are large sets of chips designed by chippers (as opposed to casino-employed designers) but they are not chipper-designed custom sets. They are meant to have mass market appeal. I see no difference between the chip design of Tiger Palace, Montecarlos, Claysmiths, or the new Sunfly Oasis chips. They're all designed to sell to large audience. Which is NOT the same as a "custom" set.

To my knowledge know one has ever nominated NAGB chips for a HOF thread and I think we would all find that ridiculous. In comparison to most HOF sets which are usually quite personalized.
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Isn’t the HOF criteria the set needs to be 5 years old? When were the first boat chips? I know several sets that to me are HOF worthy that use a collection of multiple NAGB chips.

NAGB chips are ideal for customs. And they should fall under fantasy chips as @upNdown mentioned. Not even sure that’s controversial.
 
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Semi customs ≠ customs in the HOF context. Fully custom is designed top to bottom including the clay (or plastic I suppose would qualify too)

So while I agree, there are some amazing labels and semi custom sets - it’s just a very different thing when designed top to bottom
 

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