I don’t have a card problem. Do you have a card problem? (3 Viewers)
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Can someone explain the "upside down" method of storing KEM cards? I understand putting a cut card and dealer button* in the case to weigh down the cards, but I don't understand the "upside down" part.
I don't have KEMs but I've seen the storage boxes, and they look like the Copag ones I have. So am I taking out the decks of cards, putting a dealer button and a cut card into each side of the case, then putting the decks back in, cover on, and flipping the case over so it's upside down (and the button and cut card are now on top of the cards inside the case)?
If I haven't grossly misunderstood, what's the benefit of storing the cards upside down versus just leaving the cards in the case with a cut card and a button placed on top of each deck? Tagging a few people who I saw mention this method: @upNdown @Old State
*Would a cut card and two dice chips work? They're heavier (22g for two chips) than my generic white plastic dealer button (11g).
I don't have KEMs but I've seen the storage boxes, and they look like the Copag ones I have. So am I taking out the decks of cards, putting a dealer button and a cut card into each side of the case, then putting the decks back in, cover on, and flipping the case over so it's upside down (and the button and cut card are now on top of the cards inside the case)?
If I haven't grossly misunderstood, what's the benefit of storing the cards upside down versus just leaving the cards in the case with a cut card and a button placed on top of each deck? Tagging a few people who I saw mention this method: @upNdown @Old State
*Would a cut card and two dice chips work? They're heavier (22g for two chips) than my generic white plastic dealer button (11g).
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buffalojim
Royal Flush
Purely my experience, but they end up warping so much that storing them in the normal fashion with weight on top is not enough to overcome the warping, it helps, but upside down is better with weight on top. I just don't use KEM anymore as I'm sick dealing with this issue.
I tried experimenting with this “method.” It seemed to work for a while. Then, at some point, I forgot and started storing my KEMS vertically (not upside down or right side up.). So far so good. If anything is working, I’d guess that it’s because they’re jammed into a plastic case, with a button taking up all the extra space, forcing them flat.
My guess is that you’d have good results if you stored your KEMS right side up, in a zip loc baggie, under a dictionary.
I really don’t know. I can’t debunk the upside down with button method, but my instincts tell me it’s bunk, or at least the upside-down part of it is bunk.
So "upside down" really does mean turning the case upside down (without the lid so the weight of the case is also pressing down on the cards)?
I thought I misunderstood and it was just about the directionality of the deck (the back facing up or down).
So from bottom to top: deck of cards, cut card, dealer button/dice chips/weights of some sort, case, case lid (for additional weight), like the following (using my Copag setup for demonstration)...
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buffalojim
Royal Flush
No no, turning the cards upside down inside of the case, so they are face up.
Thank you! So it's purely the directionality of the card, and is the reason that upside down is better because the bowing is always in one direction? Or that's just what seemed to have worked the best for most people?
I got some KEMs from Amazon Warehouse in "Like New" condition where just the outside packaging should have been damaged, and I think someone bought some new KEMs and then swapped their old ones in, because they had the full-on crackle across the face and appeared to be very used. I (re)returned them of course. Kind of soured me on them, but I feel like I want to give them another shot since so many people rave about them, so that's why I'm trying to find out the best way to potentially store them.
So just to be totally clear, is the "upside down" just the directionality of the deck or actually storing it in the case upside down?
And this would only affect acetate cards, correct? So if a Da Vinci deck (for example) says 100% plastic, it shouldn't be affected?
buffalojim
Royal Flush
I store mine like this and they have flattened back out.
I have no idea. It’s just some crap that some guy made up and decided it worked. But any number of factors could explain it.
@buffalojim @upNdown thank you both for clearing things up for me!
buffalojim
Royal Flush
Sure, no problem. Keep in mind I had older decks I didn't touch for about 10 years that warped heavily. I tried this method on those and they could not be saved. I had to toss about 5 setups. These we bought new about two years ago and as soon as I started to see warping, which definitely happened, I tried this method and it worked. I also don't use these cards anymore so they haven't seen much action since I got them back to flat.
ekricket
Royal Flush
What are those orange things you are using on top of the cards? Are they something custom made?
buffalojim
Royal Flush
I got those on eBay for $10 a piece. They were listed as special KEM flattening chips, so I smashed the buy it now button. Satisfied customer here. I'll PM you the link though I think he only has white left
What cards do you use regularly, if you don't mind my asking? My standard is bridge size Copag 1546, which is what the poker league I played in used regularly and I really like them (seems like a lot of Copag hate here).
I recently added a Copag WSOP 2016 setup, which feels a little different than the 1546 (not in a better or worse way) but which I also like. And then I just recently picked up 4 setups of the Fournier WSOP 2012s, which I haven't used in a real game yet, but they have a nice feel and I can't wait to test them out!
I may give these Cartamundi CCPs a try next: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KBB2JSE/. (I saw some people recommend Cartamundi casino branded, and I wasn't sure if they meant these or decks with real casino brands on the backs.)
buffalojim
Royal Flush
I wish I could use the word "regularly" but my favorites have been the Modiano. I also just got the Fournier WSOP cards and they are very nice. I think both the Modiano and Fournier will be my favorite for the type of cloth on my table, which is the speed cloth or whatever it's called. Copag are ok but if you're using actual felt, my experience has been they do not slide well. Your mileage may vary.
I agree. Though I hate the way Modiano screwed over desjgn, in my opinion, considering all factors including price and availability, Modiano is the easy choice.
Give me a card that’s thin, flexible, with linen finish on both sides, and I’m happy. And yes, Fournier is on my short list too.
buffalojim
Royal Flush
Interesting, I was not aware of the Modiano/Desjgn thing.
I think it has to do with this https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/bridge-jumbo-index-issue.24936/
Desjgn used to have his cards manufactured by Modiano. Then they produced cards for him that had subtle, but noticeable color variations on the backs. Meaning they were essentially marked. He brought it to their attention and they refused to reprint them.
He had a different manufacturer print new cards and he replaced them to all of us. He ate the cost of the cards and the shipping, because he’s a good businessman who takes care of his customers.
That’s why most people oh the forum hate Modiano. And like I said, I don’t disagree. I just like their cards.
buffalojim
Royal Flush
Well yeah, that's pretty trash and just not good business. I had no idea. With that said, I do still like Modiano cards, though I will be trying to get some more Fourier to try out as they are just as good, if not better.
That's a lot of cards! Shipment from Lithuania?
Of course
Those are just the unopened
Nice. I like variety too much to have boxes of a single type of card. You and @Goldfish buy enough of cards to have your own card rooms.
buffalojim
Royal Flush
Those Modiano boxes are sweet! Where did you find those?
Old State
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The original technique I read about years ago was just to store them with a cut card on top. I store them upside down because ever Kem deck that I’ve ever seen bow, bowed upward. I added a dealer button on each deck to add a little weight but also to take out the empty space in the box. The technique has worked for me for over 10 years and with around 6-7 decks (I’d have to go count). I use it with all acetate cards and Gemaco Superflex
Outdated as the collection has grown quite a bit since then, but this is from a little over a year ago...
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