My Journey As A Professional Poker Player (44 Viewers)

Wow, drama today

I'm at 5/5 and they call a new 2/2 game, I'm first on the list

I go to the brush stand and tell them to put me in, I'll take it if the game goes

So I stay at the 5/5, they keep calling the list. Then the brush tells me that I need to go to the table because if I was there they would've had 5, but the game didn't run and now the people who showed up want me bumped down the list

So I speak with the floor and explain how I spoke with the brush to lock my seat and he tells me because I didn't physically show up I get bumped down from the 3 who did

I get back to 5/5 and a big hand is brewing. One player flopped top and bottom set, the other flopped middle set

They get it all-in and the loser pulls a pumpkin (1k chip) off the table and gets up and walks out, welching on paying the full all-in
 
They get it all-in and the loser pulls a pumpkin (1k chip) off the table and gets up and walks out, welching on paying the full all-in

This shit again?! How did the winner, the other players, or the dealer not do ANYTHING???? How can you even call yourselves having any gaming integrity or security if this isn't prevented or addressed at the exact moment?
 
This shit again?! How did the winner, the other players, or the dealer not do ANYTHING???? How can you even call yourselves having any gaming integrity or security if this isn't prevented or addressed at the exact moment?

A casino can't do anything but ban the offending player

They cannot legally go into your pockets to enforce a debt owed to a third party
 
It's never too late to celebrate........AMERICA!
tenor.gif
 
A casino can't do anything but ban the offending player

They cannot legally go into your pockets to enforce a debt owed to a third party

If I were the winner and the casino refused to make me whole out of their own pocket, I'd be shouting from the rooftops how they let cheaters get away.

You really want your rep to be burned over $1,000? Hire more security next time. This isn't any mickey mouse $1/$2 amateur pulling this crap, they've clearly done this before.
 
If I were the winner and the casino refused to make me whole out of their own pocket, I'd be shouting from the rooftops how they let cheaters get away.

You really want your rep to be burned over $1,000? Hire more security next time. This isn't any mickey mouse $1/$2 amateur pulling this crap, they've clearly done this before.

You'd just catch a ban yourself

As I said, the casino cannot legally do what you want them to do

I've heard of this sort of scam freeroll before, first time in all my years seeing it
 
A casino can't do anything but ban the offending player

They cannot legally go into your pockets to enforce a debt owed to a third party
How about the winner and everyone else at the table follow him out the door and kick his ass! Anthony, you can kick his shin...
 
How did the other guy react?

He just looked shocked, he didn't even know the guy pulled a pumpkin off the table until others spoke up

A bunch of players shouted at the guy to STOP, kinda like the middle aged woman in the background of every fight video

The guy just casually strolled out
 
You'd just catch a ban yourself

As I said, the casino cannot legally do what you want them to do

I've heard of this sort of scam freeroll before, first time in all my years seeing it

So basically I can go to a homeless shelter, give a few guys a rubbermaid tote, have them walk into a poker room, they take every chip from every player's stack, have them walk out with the tote, and I pay them $100 each for the tote filled with chips. And there's nothing the casino will do about it? That's basically the spirit (facetious though it may be) that they are giving off here.

My post from 2 years ago when this happened at the Wynn still holds true. Go ahead and ban all the homeless that actually are the ones who take the chips, I had nothing to do it as I wasn't on the premises when it occurred.

I think the only practical solution to this from a gaming procedure standpoint is that once the all-in and call have been counted and verified, you pile both those stacks into the pot already made.
 
He just looked shocked, he didn't even know the guy pulled a pumpkin off the table until others spoke up

A bunch of players shouted at the guy to STOP, kinda like the middle aged woman in the background of every fight video

The guy just casually strolled out
Did the floor at least know who the guy was to ban him?
 
So basically I can go to a homeless shelter, give a few guys a rubbermaid tote, have them walk into a poker room, they take every chip from every player's stack, have them walk out with the tote, and I pay them $100 each for the tote filled with chips. And there's nothing the casino will do about it? That's basically the spirit (facetious though it may be) that they are giving off here.

That would be theft and a crime. And I’m sure the casino security would be on them very quickly and hold them until LVPD showed up.

I understand your point but they are such different situations it’s not really a good comparison.
 
Get it in with AAQ6 one suit, limp, the last to act makes it 35, I repot to 130 with only 25 behind

One limp-cold caller, guy who only runs once gets in for $155 holding JT94, original raiser calls

The two big stacks check down after a flop of 9J9 and I get scooped

If JT94 doofus doesn't get in I triple up
 
That would be theft and a crime. And I’m sure the casino security would be on them very quickly and hold them until LVPD showed up.

I understand your point but they are such different situations it’s not really a good comparison.
I disagree that the situations are different. Only the scale is different. In both situations, someone is taking chips (or a chip) off the table that don't belong to them, and walking out. The result should be the same. Doesn't matter if I rob a bank of $1000 or $1 million dollars. The charge against me is the same.
 
I disagree that the situations are different. Only the scale is different. In both situations, someone is taking chips (or a chip) off the table that don't belong to them, and walking out. The result should be the same. Doesn't matter if I rob a bank of $1000 or $1 million dollars. The charge against me is the same.

The difference is one are chips in posession of another person (theft) and the other is a person refusing to honor a gambling debt

The Casino can't do anything but ban the guy in the last example
 
I don't even know if they can legally refuse to cash the chip, it might open them up to legal liability to the scumbag
I'd imagine at the very least they could hold the funds pending an investigation by the local gaming commission. They might have to pay eventually but it could by some time and make sure other venues are aware of this individual.
 
I'd imagine at the very least they could hold the funds pending an investigation by the local gaming commission. They might have to pay eventually but it could by some time and make sure other venues are aware of this individual.

I think the casino has no legal ground to get involved in refusing the chip, holding funds, etc

It's a gambling debt between two other parties, they don't have jurisdiction and I doubt they would want to have it and be involved either
 
The difference is one are chips in posession of another person (theft) and the other is a person refusing to honor a gambling debt

The Casino can't do anything but ban the guy in the last example
I'll be the first to admit I don't know anything about the intricacies of gambling and casino laws, but it seems to me that the moment you push your chips into a pot, they no longer belong to you until the dealer pushes them back to you after you win. Taking chips from a pot that no longer belongs to you is theft. Don't see how you can categorize it as anything else.

On the other hand, a gambling debt is when you verbally commit to someone that you will wager a certain amount on some activity, whether it be poker, sporting events or anything else, but no money has changed hands yet. I can understand why the person you bet with can't use the legal system to enforce that type of bet. But in this case, the money has changed hands. It was given to the casino in exchange for tokens (chips) and it ought to then become the casino's responsibility, as they are the ones running the games and legally inviting patrons to come in to their establishment. They take on a that responsibility to run the games fairly and ensure that the chips are distributed properly. Chips wagered are the responsibility of the dealer, a representative of the casino. It is the dealer's job to collect, protect and distribute those chips properly. If he fails to do so, the casino needs to make it right first, and then pursue the thief.
 
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It was given to the casino in exchange for tokens (chips) and it then ought to then become the casino's responsibility, as they are the ones running the games and legally inviting patrons to come in to their establishment. They take on a that responsibility to run the games fairly and ensure that the chips are distributed properly. Chips wagered are the responsibility of the dealer, a representative of the casino. It is the dealer's job to collect, protect and distribute those chips properly. If he fails to do so, then the casino needs to make it right first, and then pursue the thief.

tenor.gif
 
I'll be the first to admit I don't know anything about the intricacies of gambling and casino laws, but it seems to me that the moment you push your chips into a pot, they no longer belong to you until the dealer pushes them back to you after you win. Taking chips from a pot that no longer belongs to you is theft. Don't see how you can categorize it as anything else.

On the other hand, a gambling debt is when you verbally commit to someone that you will wager a certain amount on some activity, whether it be poker, sporting events or anything else, but no money has changed hands yet. I can understand why the person you bet with can't use the legal system to enforce that type of bet. But in this case, the money has changed hands. It was given to the casino in exchange for tokens (chips) and it ought to then become the casino's responsibility, as they are the ones running the games and legally inviting patrons to come in to their establishment. They take on a that responsibility to run the games fairly and ensure that the chips are distributed properly. Chips wagered are the responsibility of the dealer, a representative of the casino. It is the dealer's job to collect, protect and distribute those chips properly. If he fails to do so, the casino needs to make it right first, and then pursue the thief.

The problem here is everyone could then scam the casino if they were forced to "make it right"

You and a buddy go in and plunk down 30k each. Get it in, one of you walks, refusing to pay and now the casino has to "make it right"

That scam would happen all over

The scam that did take place I've heard of before, but first time I've ever witnessed it

I guess your best bet is to ask the dealer to pull all the chips into the pot when the bets are made

Most times headsup the bets are left in front of each player

But even then, if the guy grabs a pumpkin and stuffs it in his pocket and walks out, the dealer can't tackle the guy and the floor or security likely won't get him before he's gone

As the pot hasn't been awarded yet I don't even know if they can do much there either

All I know is that this happens very rarely and unfortunately you're SOL unless you want to tackle the guy yourself and risk a ban

One day that guy will pull this on the wrong person and he may lose his life over it
 
The problem here is everyone could then scam the casino if they were forced to "make it right"

You and a buddy go in and plunk down 30k each. Get it in, one of you walks, refusing to pay and now the casino has to "make it right"

That scam would happen all over

The scam that did take place I've heard of before, but first time I've ever witnessed it

I guess your best bet is to ask the dealer to pull all the chips into the pot when the bets are made

Most times headsup the bets are left in front of each player

But even then, if the guy grabs a pumpkin and stuffs it in his pocket and walks out, the dealer can't tackle the guy and the floor or security likely won't get him before he's gone

As the pot hasn't been awarded yet I don't even know if they can do much there either

All I know is that this happens very rarely and unfortunately you're SOL unless you want to tackle the guy yourself and risk a ban

One day that guy will pull this on the wrong person and he may lose his life over it
Anthony, you are way more experienced dealing with the casinos and these games than I am. But I think you are giving the casino a pass here that they don't deserve. Let me present this a little differently, but still the exact same scenario. Let's say this guy is playing blackjack instead of poker. Do you think for one minute that if you lost a blackjack bet, then pulled a pumpkin back, and headed for the door that you would make it out? You think the casino is just going to shrug and say "nothing we can do about it?" I say NO WAY JOSE! Someone from security would have you on the floor before you got 20 feet from that table. Because now, you're stealing from the casino. My point is that it should be EXACTLY the same at the poker table. That person didn't steal from the winner of the poker hand. He stole from the casino. The casino needs to take responsibility for it, and needs to ensure that it doesn't happen without consequences. EVER! If they can do it at the blackjack table, then they can do it at the poker table.
 
Anthony, you are way more experienced dealing with the casinos and these games than I am. But I think you are giving the casino a pass here that they don't deserve. Let me present this a little differently, but still the exact same scenario. Let's say this guy is playing blackjack instead of poker. Do you think for one minute that if you lost a blackjack bet, then pulled a pumpkin back, and headed for the door that you would make it out? You think the casino is just going to shrug and say "nothing we can do about it?" I say NO WAY JOSE! Someone from security would have you on the floor before you got 20 feet from that table. Because now, you're stealing from the casino. My point is that it should be EXACTLY the same at the poker table. That person didn't steal from the winner of the poker hand. He stole from the casino. The casino needs to take responsibility for it, and needs to ensure that it doesn't happen without consequences. EVER! If they can do it at the blackjack table, then they can do it at the poker table.

You're not understanding this unfortunately. I'm not giving the casino a pass, the casino isn't shirking any duty. They have zero legal standing to do what you want them to do here. Your issue is with the letter of the law, not with the casino.

In the blackjack scenario, you are stealing directly from the casino. They have jurisdiction to protect themselves in that instance.

In the scenario that happened today, the aggrieved party would have to try and take the scumbag to small claims court to recoup their money. The Casino does not have the legal right to enforce gambling debts or disputes between 3rd parties.

Believe me, I get what you're saying. To an average person looking at this, both examples look like THEFT. But the legal system doesn't always operate in a manner that meshes with common sense, there are a lot of intricacies that come into play based on wording, intent, etc.

And unfortunately the laws are written in a manner that prevent the Casino from having any authority to do more than ban the individual who is welching on the bet. The guy who got screwed lost $815, as the scumbag did put a lot of chips forward, but ran with the single 1k chip and didn't pay the full all-in to the other player.
 

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