General Omaha Advice (3 Viewers)

naked_eskimo

Two Pair
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I've somewhat recently started playing Omaha with my group on my Poker Mavens server. We play NLO (one player refuses to switch to PLO--different discussion). I'd dabbled in Omaha in the past, but not enough to really get a feel for it. We've been playing it almost exclusively now two nights a week, NLO ring game, upwards of six players usually. I also started playing some micro stakes PLO on Pokerstars to get a feel for it beyond the same six opponents all the time.

What I was hoping to get out of this thread is just some general thoughts on how you play Omaha. No hand histories, no in depth player reads, etc. Just some general stuff:

Preflop Hand Selection:

I worry that I may be too tight in this regard. I tend to fold a lot, probably more than when playing Hold'em. I like to have four cards that work together, not just one good holdem hand with two stragglers, like for example,:ah::kh: :7c::2d: If I can flat with something like that, sure, but otherwise it's a muck candidate.

Small pairs: I've learned over the last couple of months that set mining with small pairs in Omaha is not as profitable as it is in Holdem. I now tend to fold hands like :6d::6c::js::2h:. I will play small pairs with suited connectors, like :5c::5d::6c::4d: ..that sort of thing.

Aces: I find I don't win so very often with dry aces, something like :ac::ad::9s::3h: Hands like that I will certainly play, but over hundreds of hands, I find they don't win very often. Which is a result, I imagine, of the fact that one pair hands just don't win very often in Omaha and unless you flop another ace, you're left with a one pair hand at showdown very often.

Kings: Feel pretty "meh" about pocket kings. Will flat if the other two cards are pure stragglers. Add in some straight and suitedness, and I will play them.

Wraps: For example, 56789 or TJQKA, ideally with some suitedness as well. Will play those in any position.



Tricky spots:

Flopping a set, particularly bottom set. I almost hate flopping a set in Omaha. I often end up folding them on the turn when a straight draw gets there or on the river when a flush comes in.

Board pairing. I HATE this. It must be a perception thing, but it seems the board pairs way more often when playing Omaha than Holdem. I understand that is not rational, but it feels that way. Board pairs are like the death knell for my made hands. I don't want to get too sticky with hands when the board pairs, but I don't wish to over fold either. It's always a tough call. And with so many two pair combinations, it seems that anytime the board pairs, someone has a full house. Bye bye to my made straight or flush.

Baby flushes: They do win sometimes, but I am almost always surprised when that happens. Not exactly confidence inspiring.




Those are the highlights of my thoughts on playing Omaha so far, and at a very high level. I'm curious what sort of preflop hand selection criteria others may use and how you deal with tricky spots like sets, or strong made hands facing a paired turn or paired river. Stuff like that


Thank you.
 
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Omaha is all about good drawing hands and potential FV of the pot. In that respect, the basic strategy is going to be more like 7 card stud than hold-em.
Both are games where you really need to pay attention to everything

....this view brought to you from 60,000 feet
 
Sets are only good if you have top set.

The lowest pocket pair where you can flop top set where a straight is not possible is pocket sevens.

Drawing to the nuts is FAR more advantageous than flopping the nuts. Now if you flop the nuts with a re-draw, that's a different story.

You're right about all your cards working together. Failing that, having at least 3 cards working together is often times enough against poor opponents.

Playing super tight from the blinds is paramount because of position disadvantage (natch), but also because you're not giving up much at all in the way of blinds if you do so. Spare yourself future headaches and dump a vast majority of hands pre-flop. Calling raises OOP with meager holdings over and over adds up over the course of a session.

If you're able to get a majority of your stack (60% or over) in preflop with Aces, you should still do so.

If you notice a squeaky tight player 3-bet preflop, you can peg them for Aces and almost play the hand as if their cards are face up.
 
Just for kicks, I grabbed the hand history file from my poker mavens server and parsed it in notepad++ If my search string is correct, using regular expression of (?-s)(?i)wins.*Straight|wins.*Straight , etc.. Then the hands that won at showdown look like this from our last session (163 hands):

One Pair 4
Two Pair 30
Three of a kind 12
Straight 8
Flush 8
Full House 8
Four of a kind 2

Total hands showndown: 72
Total Hands Played: 163

Looks like far fewer hands go to showdown than when we play Holdem. Two pair, by far, was the most common winner at showdown. I believe my search string is correct as I distinctly remember the two quads since I had second nut full house in each case and there is one guy who seems to get lucky with quads a lot. We have dubbed him Quadimoto.
 
I hear you, Rebel. No one wants to play Holdem in our game anymore. Used to be I couldn't get anyone to play Omaha, now they won't sign up for a game unless it's Omaha. Many of them, in my opinion, don't understand Omaha very well at all, so I'm happy to play. The variance is a beeyotch, but I'm trying to get better and avoid some spots where I don't think I really need to be involved.

It's hard, though, when you flop something like broadway, brick on the turn, then a flush or board pair happens on the river. Times like that I start to wish I wasn't playing Omaha. :)

I would like to move it to PLO, not NLO. There is one player who still plays mostly like it's holdem. Especially with preflop raises. He'll make it something like 8x or higher, even upwards of 12x preflop (everyone folds except for some very rare calls) if he's feeling frisky and then flash a mediocre hand like QQ59 rainbow and say "you gotta pay if you want to outdraw my monsters". And in my head, I'm like, that's not really a monster, dude.
 
Just for kicks, I grabbed the hand history file from my poker mavens server and parsed it in notepad++ If my search string is correct, using regular expression of (?-s)(?i)wins.*Straight|wins.*Straight , etc.. Then the hands that won at showdown look like this from our last session (163 hands):

One Pair 4
Two Pair 30
Three of a kind 12
Straight 8
Flush 8
Full House 8
Four of a kind 2

Total hands showndown: 72
Total Hands Played: 163

Looks like far fewer hands go to showdown than when we play Holdem. Two pair, by far, was the most common winner at showdown. I believe my search string is correct as I distinctly remember the two quads since I had second nut full house in each case and there is one guy who seems to get lucky with quads a lot. We have dubbed him Quadimoto.

2 pair winning at showdown makes a lot of sense. People aren’t going to get crazy with 2 pair and take their showdown value a lot more often since 2 pair is never the nuts. The hands that don’t showdown will usually have stronger made hands or big draws that pushed out weaker hands.
 
A reasonable raise on high pokers is reasonable without getting crazy

Pl keeps the crazies out...
 
Not all wraps are the same. If you have a gap in your hand the lower it is the better.

ie J1098 is much stronger than J987.

King high flushes will cost you a lot more money than they ever make you. Be cautious with any flush that isn’t Ace high. Heads up, back door flush can be the exception, especially if there was betting on the flop.

As mentioned, top set is the only real value set. Smaller sets are usually in a coin flip at best vs a wrap/flush combo at best or chasing 1 out if you get it all in on the flop. Again proceed with caution.

wrap draws:
Learn the different kinds and what the differences are. Know how many nut outs you have. Low end straights can get you in a lot of trouble like bottom set can.

In general you want to play hands that all 4 cards are 9 or higher and have a suite. If you stick to those hands for the most part it will be hard to get into too much trouble post flop. It will be less likely that you go up against a hand that has you dominated.
 
Obligatory @Anthony Martino tag.....of course. ;)

I echo reading Hwangs book. Bottom set is a money burner in this game

I play PLO professionally, but wouldn't mess with NLO. I like being able to manage pot sizes

Preflop hand equities run pretty close together most times. Even AAxx is only going to be 60% against 4 unpaired live cards in most instances

So it's really a game where you want to see flops and determine from there whether to proceed

While I do make Hero calls and LAG it up from time to time, generally I'm pretty passive and tight until it's time to get aggressive because I have good equity.
 
NLO is nuts. The pot gets out of hand easily with large preflop raises. It turns into a flip fest on the flop.

I'd say just make it PLO - why cater to the single player? I could see an issue if it was live because pot calculating can be slow for some players. But it's online so there's no calculation.
 
Had a NLO ring game last night. One hand, in particular kind of sucked.

Short version: I have :as::js::ac::9d: , so a decent enough hand. Don't love the 9d straggler, but whatever. I was SB, limped around to me, I pop it, BB (a LAG who was just stumbling to the river all night and catching amazing cards and is now very deep stacked) calls. The flop comes :ah::6c::5c:. I pot it and the BB shoves all in. It's for the rest of my stack (110 big blinds at this point). I hate this spot. I know I cannot be behind, but who knows what will happen by the river. I call the shove, BB shows :js::jc::qc::7h:. He catches another club on the river and I am digging in my virtual pockets for rebuy. :(

It seems the board only pairs when I have a straight or a flush.
 
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That is a fist pump call all day! You got him to put his stack in drawing to 8 outs on the flop and 7 on the turn with a non nut flush draw and some rare runner runner Broadway draw. That is a guy you want to play against every day. You will make money from him. Variance sucks but it keeps the fish playing.
 
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Rather than start a new thread, I will just pose another general Omaha question in this thread.

Situation1: Everything is going great. You flopped, or turned, the nut straight. The board pairs on the river. What do you do?

I find that on boards with no flush draw (rare) and I have the nut straight, but am getting called, that the person must be on a full house draw with a set or two pair. Otherwise, what could they really be chasing? A chop, I suppose, or the sucker end of a straight? If they have played Omaha for more than 30 minutes, they must realize the folly of chasing a sucker straight, so I tend to put them always on a full house when the river pairs, and I almost always fold my straight. It sucks to go from the nuts on the turn, to the trash bin on the river, but it happens a lot.

Situation2: Everything is going great. You flopped, or turned, the nut flush. The board pairs on the river. What do you do?

When flopping a flush, it's even easier to fold on the river if the board pairs as I can't imagine anyone chasing any straight when the flop contains 3 flush cards. If they are calling decent sized bets, then surely they have two pair or a set?

The more that I play Omaha, the more it seems to be a nut peddling game. One with little to no maneuverability in gameplay. You either have the nuts on most boards, or you have to fold. Even with a full house, if it is the under full, then more often I find that the other full house is out there too.

Is that too strict an interpretation?
 
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Rather than start a new thread, I will just pose another general Omaha question in this thread.

Situation1: Everything is going great. You flopped, or turned, the nut straight. The board pairs on the river. What do you do?

I find that on boards with no flush draw (rare) and I have the nut straight, but am getting called, that the person must be on a full house draw with a set or two pair. Otherwise, what could they really be chasing? A chop, I suppose, or the sucker end of a straight? If they have played Omaha for more than 30 minutes, they must realize the folly of chasing a sucker straight, so I tend to put them always on a full house when the river pairs, and I almost always fold my straight. It sucks to go from the nuts on the turn, to the trash bin on the river, but it happens a lot.

Situation2: Everything is going great. You flopped, or turned, the nut flush. The board pairs on the river. What do you do?

When flopping a flush, it's even easier to fold on the river if the board pairs as I can't imagine anyone chasing any straight when the flop contains 3 flush cards. If they are calling decent sized bets, then surely they have two pair or a set?

The more that I play Omaha, the more it seems to be a nut peddling game. One with little to no maneuverability in gameplay. You either have the nuts on most boards, or you have to fold.

Is that too strict an interpretation?

It's opponent dependant but generally people don't bluff as much as you think
 
I don't tend to put people on bluffs in Omaha. I forget which book it was, either Jockusch or Hwang, but basically the piece of advice was if someone is telling you they have the nuts, believe them.

I worry that I am over folding, but if I am, I don't think it's an excessive amount. If it's not a huge pot, I may call simply for the information I can obtain about that situation and that player, and almost without exception, I am shown the nuts.
 
Posting so I get updates on this thread. Some good information whilst I am new to PLO.
Been playing a lot on Pokerstars lately and really enjoying it, a lot more interesting than NLHE. Reading @Anthony Martino 's thread peaked my interest.

"I flopped the nut straight!!"
I've shouted this at my phone a few times! but agree with the above, it is not a done deal in PLO! Paired boards certainly slow me down!
 
Posting so I get updates on this thread. Some good information whilst I am new to PLO.
Been playing a lot on Pokerstars lately and really enjoying it, a lot more interesting than NLHE. Reading @Anthony Martino 's thread peaked my interest.


I've shouted this at my phone a few times! but agree with the above, it is not a done deal in PLO! Paired boards certainly slow me down!

Guy flopped nuts against me and still was a dog

Screenshot_20200921-061929_Chrome.jpg
 
I had a tough spot this past weekend where I flopped broadway but had no redraws. The board had a flush draw. I potted the flop, opponent called, the turn was a blank and I decided to check because I worried about a free roll situation. In hindsight I should have known it was a draw from no reraise on flop bet. River paired board and I called pot bet losing to full house. Double bad play I think on my part but I’m not 100% sure.
 

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