General Omaha Advice (1 Viewer)

Rhodeman77

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I had a tough spot this past weekend where I flopped broadway but had no redraws. The board had a flush draw. I potted the flop, opponent called, the turn was a blank and I decided to check because I worried about a free roll situation. In hindsight I should have known it was a draw from no reraise on flop bet. River paired board and I called pot bet losing to full house. Double bad play I think on my part but I’m not 100% sure.

I like to check, check/call the flop a lot of the time in these spots. It disguises your hand so you can get called on the turn by top 2 & smaller straights.

If you get a clean turn you can pot it or check/call against a nitty player if you feel a free roll is a strong possibility.

If you somehow get a clean river your hand is under repped and will often get called by a second best hand that thinks you missed your draw. Or you are chopping as expected and avoided risking your stack to just chop the pot anyways.
 

Beakertwang

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Had a NLO ring game last night. One hand, in particular kind of sucked.

Short version: I have :as::js::ac::9d: , so a decent enough hand. Don't love the 9d straggler, but whatever. I was SB, limped around to me, I pop it, BB (a LAG who was just stumbling to the river all night and catching amazing cards and is now very deep stacked) calls. The flop comes :ah::6c::5c:. I pot it and the BB shoves all in. It's for the rest of my stack (110 big blinds at this point). I hate this spot. I know I cannot be behind, but who knows what will happen by the river. I call the shove, BB shows :js::jc::qc::7h:. He catches another club on the river and I am digging in my virtual pockets for rebuy. :(

It seems the board only pairs when I have a straight or a flush.
This is similar to a hand I was in last week. I had top set with KK. Villain had a set of 6’s with a gutter to a ten, no flush draw. Thinking I must be on a big draw, he got it all in on the turn, only to river his 4-outer.

The moral of this story: Omaha sucks, but keep making the right moves you’ll eventually make money.

I don’t want to call anyone out publicly, so I’ll just say that villain’s initials are @gkitt80. :D
 

naked_eskimo

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The moral of this story: Omaha sucks, but keep making the right moves you’ll eventually make money.

Very true. I started a different thread a few weeks back asking who else would make a call in this situation type hand. It was to call a shove from a not great player who shoved all in on the flop. In that case I had, I believe, broadway draws and nut flush draw. He lost.

He did the exact same thing two nights ago against me in an almost identical spot. He shoves two pair all in on the flop, I call with an over pair (QQ) in this case and the nut flush draw. He lost again. Again he berates me for "horrible play" and I just smile thinking that maybe he should not shove two pair on the flop on a draw heavy board.

He's the one player in my group who is just not really getting how draw heavy Omaha really is. He keeps approaching it like Hold'em, and keeps losing and getting angry. Not coincidentally he is also the only player who insists that we play NLO vs PLO. He likes to be able to push people out of pots. In a small (4 handed some nights) game that is pot limit, he feels vexed when he cannot simply price everyone out. So I just wait for him to make moves like that, and end up with his remaining stack. Maybe he will come around to pot limit after all.

I don't want to play NLO, but it has it's advantages against a player like him. When he gets tilty and "in a mood", he will repeatedly start making it $12 preflop when opening the betting. Bear in mind that this is a .50/$1 game. I just lurk and wait for premium hands, repop him (he will always call out of stubborness/spite), and end up heads up with a premium hand and win a huge pot. On the flip side, I am forced to often fold hands in position that I would have otherwise happily flatted with, but that's not a huge deal.

I did start the table one night as pot limit but after about ten hands of him complaining and threatening to quit, I took the table offline and made it NLO again. He lost 2 $200 buyins by the end of the night. I don't think his playstyle is doing himself any favors.

Like I said, I do have to fold some hands in position that I don't really want to. With him a $12 preflop raise could be aces, double suited, or it could be JJ with two rags. It's hard to tell the difference, and I'm not looking to call $12 to find out with a medium hand.
 
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gkitt80

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This is similar to a hand I was in last week. I had top set with KK. Villain had a set of 6’s with a gutter to a ten, no flush draw. Thinking I must be on a big draw, he got it all in on the turn, only to river his 4-outer.

The moral of this story: Omaha sucks, but keep making the right moves you’ll eventually make money.

I don’t want to call anyone out publicly, so I’ll just say that villain’s initials are @gkitt80. :D

I remember it slightly differently than you Andrew - I had a flush draw on the turn as well, but you had that dominated with a higher flush draw. Also didn't the turn give me a OE straight draw? I don't have the hand history saved to confirm. Still, you had me dominated, and I got there - no argument there!
 

Beakertwang

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I remember it slightly differently than you Andrew - I had a flush draw on the turn as well, but you had that dominated with a higher flush draw. Also didn't the turn give me a OE straight draw? I don't have the hand history saved to confirm. Still, you had me dominated, and I got there - no argument there!
You might be right about the flush draw. All I know is I ran the numbers, and I was 87% to win.
 

Mike Wells

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"it seems the board pairs way more often when playing Omaha than Holdem. I understand that is not rational, but it feels that way. "

It is a scientifically proven fact. (we counted one night.)
I personally like NLO. Its hard to find people that want to play it. We also deal out as many cards as we can.
Strategy is WAY different between NL and PL. Having the nuts on an early street is way better when you can actually apply pressure. Betting your draws is a solid 2-way strategy.
In PLO...esp with extra cards...I'll sometimes check the nuts before the river, depending on the board.
 

naked_eskimo

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.I'll sometimes check the nuts before the river, depending on the board.
I get that. Especially if you think the person is never going to fold a draw. If they are never folding, then you don't have to worry about "letting them get there", but you do risk losing value on the turn when they are never calling the river when they miss.
 
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Mike Wells

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I get that. Especially if you think the person is never going to fold a draw. If they are never folding, then you don't have to worry about "letting them get there", but you do risk losing value on the turn when they are never calling the river when they miss.
Right. We deal out extra cards and no one ever folds...so when anything gets there, someone's usually got it.
As Norman Chad so perfectly described it..."it's a nut peddlers convention". :LOL: :laugh:
 

TheDuke

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Rather than start a new thread, I will just pose another general Omaha question in this thread.

Situation1: Everything is going great. You flopped, or turned, the nut straight. The board pairs on the river. What do you do?

I find that on boards with no flush draw (rare) and I have the nut straight, but am getting called, that the person must be on a full house draw with a set or two pair. Otherwise, what could they really be chasing? A chop, I suppose, or the sucker end of a straight? If they have played Omaha for more than 30 minutes, they must realize the folly of chasing a sucker straight, so I tend to put them always on a full house when the river pairs, and I almost always fold my straight. It sucks to go from the nuts on the turn, to the trash bin on the river, but it happens a lot.

Situation2: Everything is going great. You flopped, or turned, the nut flush. The board pairs on the river. What do you do?

When flopping a flush, it's even easier to fold on the river if the board pairs as I can't imagine anyone chasing any straight when the flop contains 3 flush cards. If they are calling decent sized bets, then surely they have two pair or a set?

The more that I play Omaha, the more it seems to be a nut peddling game. One with little to no maneuverability in gameplay. You either have the nuts on most boards, or you have to fold. Even with a full house, if it is the under full, then more often I find that the other full house is out there too.

Is that too strict an interpretation?

I think each situation can play out wildly different depending on villain, how the hand played out to the river, stack sizes, your position, etc.

Biggest factor is often the villain - I've played against alot of donks who seemingly play nonsensically. They will flop the flush or straight, bet small on the flop and turn, and inexplicably, when the board pairs the river, that's when they decide to bet pot. Their line makes no sense.

Also, playing out of position in Omaha really sucks. Hand selection in EP makes a big difference. In your examples above, I'm hoping to be in late position to be able to close the action - either make a crying call, potentially check back, or make a thin value bet (if I think I can get a call from someone with the dumb end of the straight or smaller flush).
 

MikesDad

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I had a tough spot this past weekend where I flopped broadway but had no redraws. The board had a flush draw. I potted the flop, opponent called, the turn was a blank and I decided to check because I worried about a free roll situation. In hindsight I should have known it was a draw from no reraise on flop bet. River paired board and I called pot bet losing to full house. Double bad play I think on my part but I’m not 100% sure.

One book I read on PLO (forget which) said you should never give a free card... charge the draws
 

Anthony Martino

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One book I read on PLO (forget which) said you should never give a free card... charge the draws

The only thing here is that there are some spots where you may be getting freerolled, so by checking back you keep the pot size manageable so on the river you can comfortably call a bet.

Tjis also gives your opponent an opportunity to bluff the river and you to pick it off. Whereas if you pot the turn and the river is a scare card for what you are repping, a strong opponent will put you to the test, sometimes they'll have it and sometimes they won't, but the bet now may be too large for you to hero call it

Although I do agree generally to continue betting the nuts and protect against draws. Works better if you have position on your opponent, of course
 

Coyote

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I 've read superficially Hwang's first book and have been taking a look at @Anthony Martino 's and @Rhodeman77 's posts too.
The morale of the story, IMHO, is that Omaha should never be played among even distantly socially related people, unless for half or less the stakes the same people play NLHE. :nailbite:
 

Anthony Martino

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I 've read superficially Hwang's first book and have been taking a look at @Anthony Martino 's and @Rhodeman77 's posts too.
The morale of the story, IMHO, is that Omaha should never be played among even distantly socially related people, unless for half or less the stakes the same people play NLHE. :nailbite:

Screw that, I'd checkraise my deceased grandmother!
 

Rhodeman77

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I 've read superficially Hwang's first book and have been taking a look at @Anthony Martino 's and @Rhodeman77 's posts too.
The morale of the story, IMHO, is that Omaha should never be played among even distantly socially related people, unless for half or less the stakes the same people play NLHE. :nailbite:

my group evolved from playing $1/1 hold’em to $1/2 PLO. It can definitely be done. But it takes time and helping to teach them the game so they do get better and want to play again. If I just fleeced them of every dollar I could from the start my game wouldn’t exist.
 

Coyote

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my group evolved from playing $1/1 hold’em to $1/2 PLO. It can definitely be done. But it takes time and helping to teach them the game so they do get better and want to play again. If I just fleeced them of every dollar I could from the start my game wouldn’t exist.
Sure, that's true of any game. The better player (especially if the host) should give away some "white meat" (knowlegde) to his players to keep the game from dying (and keep it interesting and challenging anyway).
But Omaha is just so volatile that it produces much wider (from up to down) swings, normally NOT digestible in games where the bond among players is primarily social.
Unless they play at least once a week to cut down on variance, which again does NOT characterise them as a social group.
 

WedgeRock

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If I just fleeced them of every dollar I could from the start my game wouldn’t exist.

Or you could recruit players from Detroit...

tenor.gif
 

Rhodeman77

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742, 752, 732, 762, flop and 77xx is the nut hand. For any PP smaller than 77 if you flop a set there will either be a bigger set possible or a straight possible. So in a game where you want to be playing to the nuts, small pocket pairs can’t do that.
 

SpaceMonkey420

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I’ve found no limit O is actually smaller pots then Pot Limit O. Dunno why but it feels smaller when I grab em.

It’s all about the O though. Got to have it!

Props for switching. Get Jeff’s book and your prob playing too many hands In bad postion IMO that’s the mistake I see people make almost daily. Gonna learn gonna learn.
 

WedgeRock

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742, 752, 732, 762, flop and 77xx is the nut hand. For any PP smaller than 77 if you flop a set there will either be a bigger set possible or a straight possible. So in a game where you want to be playing to the nuts, small pocket pairs can’t do that.
I only play small PP when I know I am going to flop quads.
 
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